Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

[lozgod]

Question for anyone on MMT

That's methadone maintenance in case you aren't familiar with the term. Considering it so I can have some stability but worry about the long term results of the decision. Basically just wondering if anyone that's done it has regrets or do they consider it a good thing as far as how it helped them in their life and making it manageable.

 

[drewbocop]

I tapered from 120mg to 4mg and jumped and my withdrawals weren't really bad. Weed got me through it for the most part. It helped me get off all the shit for sure. I actually switched from Bupe to MMT and for ME, Bupe withdrawals were hellacious (absolutely no sleep, horrible sweating, anxiety up the ass!) whereas my Methadone withdrawals were very tolerable. I didn't even have one entirely sleepless night. Definitely go look up the Methadone megathread. Lots of good info there.

Make sure you have a plan. Stop increasing dose when you're stable and try not to abuse it too much lol, if you dedicate yourself to a taper you'll be pleasantly surprised methinks. Most of the horror stories are from people going c/t from big doses usually.

 

[lozgod]

Thanks for the info.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

MMT saved my live, although I made the dumbass decision of jumping off at 70mg after being on it for like 15 months. Stupid. The withdrawal lasted a good three weeks before I started improving.. Suboxone didn't help, heroin kinda helped. Whatever you do, for the love of god please taper your dose down when you decide to get off.

The withdrawals from that dose were worse than any heroin withdrawals, any suboxone withdrawals, xanax withdrawal.. Everything. It was beyond hellacious. Thank god I have a script for klonopin and Soma.. Without those I would have killed myself.

 

[lozgod]

That's what scares me. I used it for 3 weeks at 80mgs and ran out and 3 or 4 days later I woke up in the middle of the night wishing for death. Luckily I had 10 suboxones and 24mgs set me straight. I have a friend that tapered successfully. May give it a shot. I can get it from pain management so I don't have to go to the clinic everyday. They'll only give me 40mgs a day but I think that can hold me if I give myself 4 or 5 days to adjust. Opiate life ain't fun anymore.

 

[keystonelight]

I wish you luck. I am on MMT, and have been going down 3mg every week starting from 73mg. Right now I am at 57mg and have had no problems.

It's all about your mental attitude IMHO.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Ambiguous discussion questions like this are one reason we have the mega threads so I'm moving this into the methadone mega thread.

---> Methadone Mega Thread

 

[lozgod]

I wasn't aware of the Mega Thread until someone posted in my thread I should check out the mega thread. I spent a good hour or so reading every page.


I also checked out Erowid experiences and some google searching and people are saying it doesn't matter if you are jumping from 200 or 2 mgs the WD is still going to be a bitch. At first I didn't agree until I thought about Suboxone. People jump off that at .5mgs and with a 30% absorption rate give or take sublingual ROA, it's about .15-.2mgs and from what I hear even that is a hellish withdrawal. I got to get my life together though so I think the pros outweigh the cons. MMT can allow you to mentally and spiritually recover and when you are strong enough in those areas then you can deal with the physical recovery a little.......a lot better. In the grips of addiction I think we magnify our physical withdrawal to justify using. It sucks, don't get me wrong but it's not any worse than having a bad case of the flu combined with anxiety, depression, and RLS/RAS. Those things are no cake walk but overcomable with the right mind set. Knowing that the cure is a pill or bag away while your mind is full addict mode vs recover mode is two different animals.

 

[drewbocop]

I also checked out Erowid experiences and some google searching and people are saying it doesn't matter if you are jumping from 200 or 2 mgs the WD is still going to be a bitch. At first I didn't agree until I thought about Suboxone. People jump off that at .5mgs and with a 30% absorption rate give or take sublingual ROA, it's about .15-.2mgs and from what I hear even that is a hellish withdrawal. I got to get my life together though so I think the pros outweigh the cons. MMT can allow you to mentally and spiritually recover and when you are strong enough in those areas then you can deal with the physical recovery a little.......a lot better. In the grips of addiction I think we magnify our physical withdrawal to justify using. It sucks, don't get me wrong but it's not any worse than having a bad case of the flu combined with anxiety, depression, and RLS/RAS. Those things are no cake walk but overcomable with the right mind set. Knowing that the cure is a pill or bag away while your mind is full addict mode vs recover mode is two different animals.

The people that say there's no difference between jumping from 200mg and 2mg are full of fucking shit. Like I said, I successfully tapered off like 2mg doses and takehomes and speaking from experience, when I would run out for a couple days on say, 80mg doses, there was a serious difference. As in extremely tolerable symptoms, and FUCKING DEATH.

Suboxone and Methadone are completely different drugs. Completely different. So any comparison between the two's w/d is null, really. I've w/d from both and the Suboxone was WAY worse for me, but my dosage was too high when I jumped (1-2mg.) YMMV, but if you do a proper taper, you have no reason to worry unless you're extremely sensitive or something.

RLS was always my worst symptom and made sleeping even worse. I didn't have to battle with it much on Methadone. On Suboxone, it was KILLER. "Midnight breakdancing" to the fullest.

Don't be worried and make a plan, bro. Tapering from 40mg/day should be pretty easy really. Just stick to it, try not to abuse it, and you'll be okay! You sound dedicated enough. And you're very right on the aspect of the mental battle. Though I've made GIANT strides and have been sober for months, it's still something I think about every day. You just gotta help yourself and control those nagging thoughts. It sucks.

 

[lozgod]

From user experiences I read I would come to the conclusion Suboxone is worse AND different. Seems like it comes with mega lethargy afterwards as the most prevailing symptom post acute WD. Whereas for methadone it is sleeping issues which are easily remedied. Again, thanks for the input.

I was successful in getting Methadone prescribed to me. Now I am on Methadone 20mg ED and Roxicodone 60mg (2 doses) per dose 5 times a day. The methadone is an add on. The methadone has been a Godsend these last 5 days. I don't wake up in a panic needing my Roxi dose immediately. And I don't over dose (as in dosage not OD) the Roxis now. I think next month I may ask to be switched over completely (upping methadone dosage and ending Roxi) and begin my detox.

It's a blessing to be able to get the methadone via a doctor vs an outpatient clinic. I went to sign up for one one time and the atmosphere of the place was a good enough excuse to keep using. It was ghetto as hell and I am from the ghetto. I lived on 25th St in North Philadelphia a few blocks over from Broad and Leigh for a few years and thought I saw every kind of junkie until I went to the meth clinic. These fellow suffering addicts must only come out, cop, and stay inside. They were deteriorated like I've never seen. Figured I wasn't that bad I could keep going.

So any suggestions on a smooth methadone detox? I am thinking get up to 80mgs and get off the Roxi (no I won't stay on the Roxi and sell it, I do not sell my meds) then begin dropping in 5mg increments every 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[DeLee]

Ive been on Methadone now for about a month, im on 60mg and on monday I up my dose to 70mg. Methadone feel SO much better both mentally and physically than Suboxone!
Now I know both Methadone and Suboxone are synthetic but with Suboxone you can just feel it. It F's with your mind too which Methadone doesn't in the same degree.

Im real happy that I made the switch, I was worried that I should regret it but I don't. Not the slightest.
The only problem I have right now is urinating, the first piss in the morning is fine but when youre dosed up and trying to take your second.. man its hardcore.

This might sound really weird, but I found one way where I could take a piss and that is if I hold my breath and keep holding it until it gets almost unbearable - then at that point I can let go.
I told you - its some freaky stuff. ha ha. I guess it involves some muscles that relax or something.

@lozgod:
How different it can be country to country, here in my city in Sweden the people on the Sub and Methadone programs aren't really THAT bad looking like you see in some american documentaries. Ofc there are those too but not a lot.

 

[laCster]

nvm

 

[lozgod]

Ive been on Methadone now for about a month, im on 60mg and on monday I up my dose to 70mg. Methadone feel SO much better both mentally and physically than Suboxone!
Now I know both Methadone and Suboxone are synthetic but with Suboxone you can just feel it. It F's with your mind too which Methadone doesn't in the same degree.

I think that is because Methadone is a full agonist vs buprenorphine being a partial agonist. You are right. Suboxone there is a honeymoon stage where you feel great then one day it is over and you just feel different. I self medicated with it for about 6 weeks. It felt good for about 3.

 

[DeLee]

I think that is because Methadone is a full agonist vs buprenorphine being a partial agonist. You are right. Suboxone there is a honeymoon stage where you feel great then one day it is over and you just feel different. I self medicated with it for about 6 weeks. It felt good for about 3.

Yeah it is like that. When you don't feel anything on the Subs then you have entered that level where it just messes with your mental health. It made me very anxious and non-social.

Now like I wrote ive only been on MMT for about a month so maybe in 6months I have changed my view of the ordeal but for now it feels better!

I have a question for everybody who is on Methadone, may it be illegal or legal through MMT/Pain management -

Do you experience more nightmares now that you are on methadone versus before ?
Because I have noticed that lately I have been having a lot of nightmares, almost every night I dream about drugs, feelings of hopelessness, abandoned by friends & family, being hated and so on.

This increase I did not experience on Suboxone or heroin, morphine, oxy etc.

 

[Pegasus]

I think that is because Methadone is a full agonist vs buprenorphine being a partial agonist. You are right. Suboxone there is a honeymoon stage where you feel great then one day it is over and you just feel different. I self medicated with it for about 6 weeks. It felt good for about 3.

It depends on how you look at it... Methadone is known to lower testosterone pretty significantly and cause androgen deficiency even after quitting... Bupe does have sexual side effects while taking it, but it does not cause androgen deficiency and the sexual effects stop when you stop taking it. Personally, I refused to take methadone longer than about 2-3 weeks as I didn't want to mess with my testosterone production and possibly have to use testosterone replacement therapy (pretty common actually, especially from high-dose methadone). Some people may have different priorities; I very much wanted to keep my testosterone production at a normal level.

 

[affasd]

I was getting crazy dreams every single night with methadone, not always nightmares but sometimes. I was also waking up once every hour or like 6 or 7 times a night. Since I went up form 130 to 140 though i noticed a big difference, I only wake up maybe 2 or 3 times a night and I have a lot less dreams, sometimes not even 1 a night, where as before every single time I woke up it was from a crazy ass dream. I got the same thing from heroin withdrawals, so I think it is because the methadone blood level is lowest at night, even if you don't feel shitty from w/d yet the methadone level is still low so it could cause the crazy dreams and interrupted sleep, basically if you plan on being on methadone for a long time you want to up your dose until it lasts all the way till the next mornings dose, this includes sleeping problems. Because having these bad dreams and low quality sleep will be more likely to cause you to end up using drugs again

 

[Tchort]

Do you experience more nightmares now that you are on methadone versus before ?

I think nightmares are simply a side effect of opioid addiction and dependancy in some regards- some more and others. I had horrible nightmares on Buprenorphine, and still have intense nightmares (on a less regular basis) on Methadone- though between the two the former was much worse in this regard. I believe nightmares are listed as a potential side effect in the Suboxone booklet handed to new BMT patients?

 

[darky185]

Haven't posted or been on BL in awhile, been on MMT since Feb 1st, and I've actually been doing pretty good, I went up to about 120mg and stabalized, I don't have cravings, can eat, got a job again good stuff but when I originally got on Methadone I wasn't in the best state and it seemed like the best option to me at the time, I still think it wasn't a bad idea, I just intented to stay out it for probably a year... but now I'm thinking I need to be clean in about 2 months...

I've had a girl come back into my life recently and long story short I'm going out of the country for 2 weeks for a nice long visit, I want and need to be clean for this, I only have 2 months to do it but if I really want her I know I can do this no matter how bad it is...

Was thinking the best way would be to jump quickly down as far as I can while still managing to work a bit, can probably cut my dose in half without it being too awful, I know the last 40 will be harder then the first 80.. I thought about just CTing but that sounds like a bad idea even with this amount of time but by the end of June I don't want to be taking methadone, I would like to be done a little sooner so I have plenty of time to feel the worst before I leave... I don't wanna spend 2 weeks in phyiscal withdrawls still, paws is a whole different story and I know that's gonna be hard but I need to be able to do this physically first... I am tired of this, even if my life is better now... but my only worry is I'm pushing this too fast, last summer I tried to get clean, came off suboxone, then my firiend killed himself like a week later and I was back on Oxys till Feb...

Anyone have any input about how long my withdrawls will last? My ideal plan would be to taper down fast, over 2 weeks or so and then I'd have 6 weeks to get myself together again... but I think I mite need the whole month to taper if I want to be able to work... Thoughts? Came out a little wordier then I'd like, maybe I'll go to TDS next time but this is methadone specific?

 

[lozgod]

It depends on how you look at it... Methadone is known to lower testosterone pretty significantly and cause androgen deficiency even after quitting... Bupe does have sexual side effects while taking it, but it does not cause androgen deficiency and the sexual effects stop when you stop taking it. Personally, I refused to take methadone longer than about 2-3 weeks as I didn't want to mess with my testosterone production and possibly have to use testosterone replacement therapy (pretty common actually, especially from high-dose methadone). Some people may have different priorities; I very much wanted to keep my testosterone production at a normal level.

I'm just coming across this research wise. All opiates at abuse level suppress the HTPA be it oxy, bupe, dope, methadone, whatever. Long term has a worse effect because it offers no break, and short term used regularly would have the same effect. I recently became re-employed and will have benefits shortly. I plan on going to a specialist in that area (TRT aka testosterone replacement therapy) hoping for testosterone injections. FYI the HTPA affects hormone production. Primarily testosterone and estrogen. It does so by lowering LH and FSH. These are catalysts for making test and estro in males and females. I have access to steroids. If I test low for testosterone I am going to get a doctor to prescribe me injections (the cream and patch are not very effective) or am going to medicate myself having access to steroids.

There are no natural legal alternatives that are effective. Some claim DHEA is effective and if levels are low then it would be beneficial to supplement it but it alone will not have a dramatic increase in testosterone while continuing opiate use be it MMT/pain management or drug abuse. Naltrexone is actually shown to increase testosterone for the opposite reason opiate abuse suppresses it. While MMT/PM isn't abuse in the legal sense of the word, to the body it is no different.

Good point to bring up. Most opiate users, while maybe not admitting it, have libido issues. At first it was a blessing in that area. After a year or so it went the opposite direction. Now I have hardly any interest in sex. Done wonders in my love life. Women want what they can't have and my drug usage is pretty well hidden. I do not look like a junky. I dress nice, have my own place with a lot of nice material stuff. Girls think I won't give them the time of day because I am Mr Too Fucking Cool but in reality I just am not interested. I just want my pills/dope/whatever. A heroin rush gives me more pleasure than sex.

So I am going to either legally or illegally begin hormone replacement therapy while weaning slowly off of methadone and oxycodone.

 

[lozgod]

One more thing. Unrelated to the above post.


To avoid do the liquid handcuffs to the clinic I am using a pain management doctor to wean off of opiates. If I tell them that is my intent I will be put on Suboxone. In the US doctors can only detox you using Suboxone/Subutex unless they are a methadone clinic. For the price of the visit and the script it is about the same cost wise but I have my dose at home, I don't have the "methadone clinic" stigma, and I am in more control regarding my taper.

I am unfamiliar with seriously sticking to a taper.

I am looking for experience or answers based on quality research as a second option, but does a long term taper have a better success rate?

I am thinking, just as stated about suboxone, that a long term taper does a few things. One it allows me to lose the addict programming of how am I going to get high today. There is an excitement to it. Even when my stomach is in a knot and I am covered in sweat, my sense of smell is through the roof and everything stinks, my mouth tastes like a mixture of coppers and cigarettes, heart is racing, etc. Withdrawal. Ideas start racing through my head, I send out 25 texts, you know the routine. I eliminate that for a period of time then my days starts to become motivated by other factors. It used to be getting to the gym, getting to work and setting the world on fire making money, winning over new clients, touching base with old ones to trump up new business. I went from white collar suits to long sleeve white collar shirts to hide track marks to dirty white wife beaters. I can turn that around, my appearance and my daily life habit. Get my financial, emotional, mental recovery grounded, begin my taper, then move on to my physical recovery started. Slowly taper down to zero mgs at my own comfortable pace.

Please, any experience (looking for detailed as possible) would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.