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  • AADD Moderators: Tronica

National ecstasy study - a rethink?

Tronica

Tronica

Executive Director
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I'm not sure how many of you look at the 'current research' header of this forum. It has a link to the current national ecstasy study that is run on an annual basis, see http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=571238

Annual reports are published here: http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/NDARCWeb.nsf/page/National Reports#EDRS_National

In recent years, it has been more difficult to find 'ecstasy' users to complete the survey, especially in the less populace states (WA, ACT, NT). I imagine this is unsurprising to BLers who have been discussing the difficulty getting hold of ecstasy/MDxx for some time.

So, as well as alerting you to the project - please use the info in the Drug Studies thread to contact the researchers if you are interested in participating - I wanted to also ask your opinions on this question:

Should drug monitoring systems in Australia be based on use of 'party drugs' more generally rather than just 'ecstasy'? If, as many here have commented, former ecstasy users are forced to turn to other drugs due to lack of availability, are researchers really talking to MDxx users... or just to people who've bought some 'cap' which probably contains BZP?

For example, maybe the monitoring system should be based on monitoring the drugs people use in club settings (recruiting people who go out regularly)? [E.g., in the UK, an annual monitoring system exists through a survey published in MixMag]

(nb. this thread is for personal interest: I am not involved in the running of this project!)
 
^ in my opinion, yes. They need to differentiate between "ecstacy" and "mdma". I've volunteered for this survey so will be discussing this with at length with the researchers when I get the opportunity to :)

Anecdotally I've pretty much seen mdma disappear from the pill scene altogether, so it really baffles me everytime someone here posts some hard data from drug seizures showing it's still prevalent.
 
I'm not saying there isn't some MDxx floating around. However, this study assumes that ecstasy users are a 'sentinel group', through which we can understand other related drug markets. I think that has changed due to the success of AFP in reducing MDxx supply in Oz.

It's tricky though. The best thing about these sorts of studies is being able to track trends over time. To do that, it's best you try and contact similar groups of people over time... hence having the same selection criteria from year to year. Not an easy problem to solve!
 
Im not sure about how you contact the younger group, i remember when i was first introduced in ecstasy was around 15/16 years old, at underage events. I mean we had no access to alcohol back then but a club enviroment was perfect, and 1 pill was shared between 2 people, quarter at a time was enough for whole night, cheap and easy to obtain, no id for alcohol etc. i have no idea how that market has changed in the last 15 years, but i would assume it be the same.

i think this is the new market who are happy with the current market of other substances in what is called ecstasy, as they know/experienced nothing better.
 
belarki said:
^ in my opinion, yes. They need to differentiate between "ecstacy" and "mdma". I've volunteered for this survey so will be discussing this with at length with the researchers when I get the opportunity to :)
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I did this survey a few weeks ago, and raised that exact issue. There definately needs to be a difference between "ecstacy" and MDMA for the purposes of studies.

The intstitute conducting the study is definately aware of the difference and the specificity of the questions was rather suprising. The people constructing these studies are suprisingly up to date on drugs, even in terms of RC's and ask you questions specific to a certian drug even some fancy rc's that I hadn't heard of o.0

I doubt they could easily differentiate now as comparing trends to years past would become rather tricky. I think they hold the opinion that if something is being sold as ecstacy, for all intensive purposes it should be considered to be just that. Law enforcement thinks along the same lines ;)
 
I believe that the EDRS needs a rethink, because of the assumption that "ecstasy" means MDMA. There are a lot less people around these days who've used MDMA monthly for the last six months, which I believe is the criteria to get into the EDRS (correct me if I'm wrong, this is from memory of past EDRS).

I think it's safe to assume that a significant proportion of people who say they've used "ecstasy" monthly for the past six months may have never taken MDMA. "Ecstasy" is just a slang term for an illicit pressed tablet, especially amongst younger folk who have initiated use in the past 2-3 years.

Maybe EDRS could add a few questions about subjective experience for a qualitative analysis. Things like "duration", "describe the subjective effects", "describe the after effects". It might help track some of the different experiences people are having from whatever is in their illicit pressed tablet this weekend.
 
The truth is most real eccy munching pill fiends know what mdma is...

even low level idiots know what it is...

not the pure form but they realize it comes in pills, its potent and they'll pay anyone the meagre price it is to get another pill thats got actually mdma in it.

regardless of whether that takes them through thirty odd shitty weak mdXX or even piperazine pills to get there.
They don't know any other method of finding those little circles of gold...

Now i don't mean to be a cunt but if you think otherwise you've prolly spent way too long on this forum lording it over anyone else who's just here to get what they really wanna know... not listen too your superiority complex put them down.
 
Tronica said:
In recent years, it has been more difficult to find 'ecstasy' users to complete the survey, especially in the less populace states (WA, ACT, NT). I imagine this is unsurprising to BLers who have been discussing the difficulty getting hold of ecstasy/MDxx for some time.
Click to expand...


Yes no surprises at all that punters are harder to come by. I still go out to a few electronic music clubs / events and the change in the crowd is obvious. Pretty much no one gurning anymore. Not even that many people on stimulants much these days. Most people appear to be drunk in Perth. You notice the crowd gets tired earlier in the night too.
 
titstypedthis said:
The truth is most real eccy munching pill fiends know what mdma is...

even low level idiots know what it is...

not the pure form but they realize it comes in pills, its potent and they'll pay anyone the meagre price it is to get another pill thats got actually mdma in it.

regardless of whether that takes them through thirty odd shitty weak mdXX or even piperazine pills to get there.
They don't know any other method of finding those little circles of gold...

Now i don't mean to be a cunt but if you think otherwise you've prolly spent way too long on this forum lording it over anyone else who's just here to get what they really wanna know... not listen too your superiority complex put them down.
Click to expand...

Are u high? Very abusive last few posts. Seriously there has been a few good batches of mdma the past couple of years, but when you are saying new people, teenagers who are first time pill takers have a idea of mdma? I dont believe any more than 50% have had it, and those who have prolly havent had it again. I dont for once believe that long term BL'er/PR'ers who know dealers cant get mdma pills while teenagers can.
 
grugz said:
Are u high? Very abusive last few posts. Seriously there has been a few good batches of mdma the past couple of years, but when you are saying new people, teenagers who are first time pill takers have a idea of mdma? I dont believe any more than 50% have had it, and those who have prolly havent had it again. I dont for once believe that long term BL'er/PR'ers who know dealers cant get mdma pills while teenagers can.
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precisely who im not talking about, read between your lines [snip].

anyone who intently takes pills for a few times(5-6) will know a good pill when they find it, even dumbshit teenagers...
I'm saying those who're turned off by the shit pills are turning too ice or just booze and other drugs.

you people who think others are so stupid that they will willingly
take shit pills on a regular basis even after so many fucking shitful pills are just cocksuckers looking to be "right" amongst a bunch of other dumbshit and behind the times druggo's

ofcourse theres some but they're by no means the majority, so please stfu with the blueprint theory thats been spouted off for almost a decade.
 
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If your theory holds, then why is there still so much crap being pressed and sold on the street? It is because there are people who willingly take shit. Some people have a goal of just getting 'fkd up' on anything. And i never said the majority of experienced users arelike that, just the new people.

Never said people didnt go to other drugs, but there is still ecstasy users out there, I dont really see teens being able to afford any other drugs.

My point to begin with really was that esctasy shouldnt be called mdma, survey needs to be adjusted to the current market conditions.

Jeez I guess when someone is wrong on the internet u have correct em
 
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because how many dealers give you a pill to test with a reagant?

you've still gotta buy your pills... and every now and then there will be a good one and once someone realizes their dealer can't find the good ones any more its just you handing them money for another hard block of binders and bzp, then you move on, but its not a rapid transition is it?

Yet how many hundreds of uni/highschool kids will buy a single pill too see how it is these days?

for the last line i totally agree, get with the times or they're failing as scientists
 
High school kids today would just be buying the cheap sht bzp/dxm pills. They couldnt afford the mdma pills being flogged at a premium. They wouldnt know what mdma is, the ones who dont react badly and dont get put off, enjoy that crap and continue to buy it. When they do get mdma they go wow its good, but when they cant they still get of with these rubbish chems.

Also survey needs to look into methylone n other rcs that get pressed into bics
 
grugz said:
High school kids today would just be buying the cheap sht bzp/dxm pills. They couldnt afford the mdma pills being flogged at a premium. They wouldnt know what mdma is, the ones who dont react badly and dont get put off, enjoy that crap and continue to buy it. When they do get mdma they go wow its good, but when they cant they still get of with these rubbish chems.

Also survey needs to look into methylone n other rcs that get pressed into bics
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^ thats what i'm talking about [snipity snip] :X

you just don't get it do you?
it's not that they wanna buy shit but they'll throw a tenner or so on a round one for a night too see how it goes...

it's like buying a zoo mag..

ofcourse theres the odd idiot... whats your point about them? they're actually few and far between.
 
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grugz and titstypedthis - No need to fight, you are probably both right. Some people don't know what they are missing. Others do realise what they are buying is crap, but buy it in the hope that it might be decent, and once they have it, they take it anyway (well they've spent the money right?). Some people are ignorant; other people are just annoyed at the lack of quality. The people buying the 'crap' hoping it will be decent are working a lottery to an extent: the promise of 'good pills' can be seductive.

@malakaix - Yes that articles gives the results of last year's study. Last year the EDRS included a long list of RCs to get a better sense of the markets for different substances.
 
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