Using other stuff while detoxing.. question

[theartofwar]

Alright - I'm doing well all in all but it doesn't matter how much bupe I take , my life is empty without chasing around the dope and blah blah - heard the story. Last few nights man I have drank a solid bit. I'm not much of a drinker but I CAN drink i guess i ended up with like a 90 tab on long island iced teas (dont hate on em) and had at least 4-6 drinks before going out with my friends.

This time I don't care about one bit, its just a chance to catch up with people who aren't using opiates. How thin is this line though: In recovery, NOT WITHDRAWALS, in recovery, I will obstain from anything more than likely for my safety. In withdrawals , I'm pretty open to whatever o keep my mind off doing what it really wants still. I know this isn't very well put together, I'm sorry, recently I have not been either lol. Any thoughts?

 

[villian]

This never worked for me because I would get shit-faced to forget the withdrawals, next morning I would be hungover AND in withdrawals and end up using.

 

[theartofwar]

99% of the time I am with you bro - my thing is I lift , i do a bunch of work outside , i am bored bro. I am used to drugs 24/7 - so I mean some drugs I know would be trouble... drinking aint my thing really but I stay away. Best drugs during opiate wihdrawal for me was ketamine (always will be) outside of bupe itself , I mean I'm only take 4mg on my 4th day - no hangovers no probs - but I mean theirs TONS of fun cheap lil club drugs to go out now since im not wasting my money on gettin that dog food daily. Mind you when it comes ime to be in recovery and not detox, I know this has to stop aside from drugs for mental reasons.

 

[Ds]

Alright - I'm doing well all in all but it doesn't matter how much bupe I take , my life is empty without chasing around the dope and blah blah - heard the story. Last few nights man I have drank a solid bit. I'm not much of a drinker but I CAN drink i guess i ended up with like a 90 tab on long island iced teas (dont hate on em) and had at least 4-6 drinks before going out with my friends.

This time I don't care about one bit, its just a chance to catch up with people who aren't using opiates. How thin is this line though: In recovery, NOT WITHDRAWALS, in recovery, I will obstain from anything more than likely for my safety. In withdrawals , I'm pretty open to whatever o keep my mind off doing what it really wants still. I know this isn't very well put together, I'm sorry, recently I have not been either lol. Any thoughts?

don't add alcohol to your problems man, it will only make the shit harder dealing with them when you get off the shit.

i agree with suboxone, and prefer it over methadone any day (when used the right way). I'm not dissing methadone.. I know hard working construction workers on the shit.

I took kava kava when i was detoxing. (detoxing while i was in rehab without them knowing..) so i couldn't take anything that could show up on a drug test.

slap yourself when u start thinking crazy, hell i wear a rubber band on my wrist, and when i start thinking crazy i'll pop it. shit hurts, but i get over the thought.

 

[theartofwar]

i don't slap and my house cannot deal with more dry wall / broken bones lol.

I feel you and expected these responses - I simply am not sure - Having some sort of "man that was great but it wasn't THAT" - it leaves me feeling like shit man I can do this again, have that semi normal or whatever life im making.

 

[paranoid android]

Don't end up replacing opiates with alcohol. Your going from a bad addiction to even a worse addiction if you end up becoming addicted to alcohol at all. Not to mention alcohol has a much worse effect on your mood then heroin and other opiates do.

 

[theartofwar]

argh, I suck with words. But believe me last thing I'll do is replace H with booze , can't stand the stuff and costs me damn near same when i go out anyway haha.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

If you can manage to have an OK experience drinking - that's great!

I feel like total shit from any amount of ethanol so I stay away from it. I just don't like how it effects me.

It's also really bad on the body and mind.

However, it's great that you have a solid handle on ethanol, since ethanol is not a great drug to be using in the chronic sense.

I know you'll do fine in the long run TAoW; everyone is just concerned about you. Many people end up abusing multiple CNS depressants if they started off on heroin, but I know that'll be unlikely for you.

Alright - I'm doing well all in all but it doesn't matter how much bupe I take , my life is empty without chasing around the dope and blah blah - heard the story. Last few nights man I have drank a solid bit. I'm not much of a drinker but I CAN drink i guess i ended up with like a 90 tab on long island iced teas (dont hate on em) and had at least 4-6 drinks before going out with my friends.

This time I don't care about one bit, its just a chance to catch up with people who aren't using opiates. How thin is this line though: In recovery, NOT WITHDRAWALS, in recovery, I will obstain from anything more than likely for my safety. In withdrawals , I'm pretty open to whatever o keep my mind off doing what it really wants still. I know this isn't very well put together, I'm sorry, recently I have not been either lol. Any thoughts?

When in withdrawals I do the same thing, I make sure I have "something" to keep myself sane. It's a natural thing to do man.

Just make sure you can keep whatever you use in check, and do your best to use as little as possible, just so that you can feel all right in social situations.

 

[theartofwar]

I have to say it again - im not a drinker lol , i can tolerate the shit pretty well. But I never went out looking for drinks , i would much prefer my fri / sat be a candy flip or kitty chase at a club then sitting around w dudes drinkin diff tasting beers. Thats my 2cc's

 

[IamSam12323]

our bodies are prone to addiction. Usually, when we kick one habit we replace (subconsciously) with another addiction. However, you seem by my understanding to just feel guilty to have such a good time with out your Mistress H. This should not be the case. You had a good time don't make it into a pattern.

Maybe replace the H addiction with a healthier one. Working out, Cooking or playing a sport.

 

[paranoid android]

Yeah replacing one addiction with another is all too common. When i gave up drinking i more or less replaced it with constant exercise and weight lighting. Also during the numerous times Ive gone off opiates Ive tended to replace them with alcohol (got bad there for abit but quit again), amphetamines and on one horrible occasion cocaine and went on a 2 week long IV coke bender. That was the worst and it took my head months to get back to anywhere normal.

So yeah it's just natural that addicts go all out on anything they like. Id say replace the H with loads of sex . Out of all the methods ive tried that seems to be the best :D

 

[RedLeader]

I have used opiates to help me get through acute WD from alcohol before, and that worked rather well. So as much as that fits in here, yes I am okay with using Substance Y to mitigate WDs from Substance X, but only for certain pairs of X and Y.

I'm pretty sure that using alcohol to get through heroin WDs would result in me getting drunk and losing my willpower against using gear, and a few hours later I'd be short a few hundred dollars and back at my starting point. Like 99.999% sure of it.

 

[paranoid android]

^ One thing i have noticed is that i can't drink when i'm on a steady dose of opiates as in i can't drink enough to get drunk. Instead i just get sick, dizzy and fiending for some more opiates after only a few beers. So i have no doubt they helped me quit drinking and stay off when i got chronic pain. So even though i hate being chained to fucking pills (and do intend to quit when i can at all) they may have saved my life in a odd way because if i had kept drinking id be long dead.

 

[RedLeader]

I know what you mean about not getting drunk. Well, kind-of. I definitely can drink a lot more when I'm also using an opiate. As well, the drinks seem to go down easier. I can aggressively sip on strong mixed-drinks, or make my way through a pack of beers, and the alcohol tastes plesant to me (I don't like the taste of alcohol) and goes down quite well (typically near the end of alcohol benders my body will start "fighting" the drinks I give it, and I am tempted to puke, get horrible heartburn, and so on). In a way it reminds me of drinking in nightclubs while high on stimulants and how they assisted my ability to drink. Not good for a million different reasons for binge drinking being a bad thing. Perhaps kinda good in the sense that avoiding a sloppy/blacked-out phase restricts the degree to which I'll make bad choices.

I like your idea about a brief sex addiction. I'll do similar, or I'll be liberal with junk food (appetite's coming back), online spending (money's no longer being channeled to a dealer's pockets) or whatnot. Addictive personalities are better handled through addictions to less-bad luxaries.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Yeah, I also totally stopped using any alcohol now that I take methadone daily.

While in w/d alcohol and weed are big no nos. Weed increases pain for me and alcohol just doesn't help at all. The only things that I found that helped in opiate w/d were benzos. Less than a couple weeks of use has never lead to benzo w/d and I never ventured farther in. They are as close to a miracle substance when w/d as I have ever found. But I am not going to disregard the warning people give here about the horrible nature of benzo w/d and believe them on their word. When in w/d valium or xanax can take something like at least 50% of the symptoms away for me. The anxiety, restless leg syndrome, sleeplesness, even the hot/cold flashes. Add some loperamide for stomach and tiny amount of clonidine. Even some tramadol for a few days for the worst symptoms and its not so bad. But that's for w/d that is moderate. Doesn't work well for severe. Low dose opiates or coming off bupe. I was able to get clean this way several times. Only if I didn't have the horrible pain that lingers on and gets be begging for opiates no matter how long I stay off.

So, strong opiate --> bupe (few weeks)--> tramadol (few weeks) --> benzos, clonidine (if even needed), loperamide (if needed) --> w/d so light you will barely know they are there.

It's the easiest way I ever found to totally get off opiates.

 

[theartofwar]

make it clear now - I haven't even had bupe today, not 1mg - feel fine - i detoxed myself this time for myself.
@IamSam - I don't do the guilt - guilt lasts longer than it promotes growth. I do accept who I am, I am all or nothing - you mention working out, bro I had an aneurysm at 24 last summer deadlifting. I do not half ass anything , H included. Ty for your comments.

Bottom line is I don't have the answer for myself - a lot of the drugs I enjoy most (mdma , ketamine , lucy , molly) are slowly finding such similar highs in the RC world. Not the same - but SO easily obtainable that my addictive personality could (and Im sure i would w/say mephedrone) stop using like 6 months after first shot lol.

In the long run, if you told me i could never take mdma again, i would be furious / sad - but I would never waste a dose of mdma either - likewise K - right NOW I am gonna focus on whatever recovery is, ie where do I live when the days run out t minus very fucking soon =[

 

[theartofwar]

Yeah, I also totally stopped using any alcohol now that I take methadone daily.

While in w/d alcohol and weed are big no nos. Weed increases pain for me and alcohol just doesn't help at all. The only things that I found that helped in opiate w/d were benzos. Less than a couple weeks of use has never lead to benzo w/d and I never ventured farther in. They are as close to a miracle substance when w/d as I have ever found. But I am not going to disregard the warning people give here about the horrible nature of benzo w/d and believe them on their word. When in w/d valium or xanax can take something like at least 50% of the symptoms away for me. The anxiety, restless leg syndrome, sleeplesness, even the hot/cold flashes. Add some loperamide for stomach and tiny amount of clonidine. Even some tramadol for a few days for the worst symptoms and its not so bad. But that's for w/d that is moderate. Doesn't work well for severe. Low dose opiates or coming off bupe. I was able to get clean this way several times. Only if I didn't have the horrible pain that lingers on and gets be begging for opiates no matter how long I stay off.

So, strong opiate --> bupe (few weeks)--> tramadol (few weeks) --> benzos, clonidine (if even needed), loperamide (if needed) --> w/d so light you will barely know they are there.

It's the easiest way I ever found to totally get off opiates.

couldn't disagree more bro - but if it works for you go for it - weed the strain makes a HUGE diff while wd'ing I've found, but in general a good headie is gonna keep your stomach from knots. As for drinking, well I dunno I drank more cuz I was like wtf do I do since im not doing heroin. I caught up with good people, it worked for me - but were all different.

 

[paranoid android]

I would strongly advise against using tramadol as a withdrawal aid. Although it has very very mild opioid properties (honestly about 60mg's of codeine has more effect on me then 400mg's of tram which is the most you can take in a day) but it is also a SNRI. I have gone through withdrawal from effexor which is a SNRI and i can say that out of all the withdrawals ive had from morphine (both orally and IV), hydromorphone (IV and snorted), oxycodone taken orally, benzos and alcohol the only thing worst was the times i tried unsuccessfully to withdraw from alcohol without medication. It was a fucking horror show that i would not wish on my worst enemy. Well ok i would wish it on a few people that have harmed loved ones of mine but that another story

For me cannabis helps alot during opiate Wd's especially hash or indica strains of weed. Normally i can't eat during severe acute withdrawal and i have gone 5 days or more without food during withdrawal but with weed i can eat without much trouble. Also it helps the mental withdrawals alot for me and just sedates me abit.

I have never gone through full blown benzo withdrawals i don't think but i have been on 4-6mg's of clonazepam a day since about 2007 and last year i had to make 20mg's of clonazepam last almost 10 days. It wasn't as bad as i expected and the worst part was it gave me horrible flashbacks to when i had the DT's and i have no desire to be reminded of those dark days. Most likely it was because it resembled mild DT's since i was jumpy as fuck and slightly delirious granted i could still function if i had to. But i was already so sick from pneumonia and opiate withdrawals at this time that it was hard to say what was causing what.

To this day i can't believe that while suffering from opiate and benzo withdrawals and pneumonia that i helped move all my girlfriends stuff from one house to another and i only had one other cunt who was rather useless helping me. It was also about -20C out on that day and i was sweating so bad i only had a hoodie on so yeah great day lol

Anyway moral of that story is you often don't find out just how tough you are until you need to be. The human will can overcome pretty much any obstacle if history has taught us nothing else.

 

[theartofwar]

Anyway moral of that story is you often don't find out just how tough you are until you need to be. The human will can overcome pretty much any obstacle if history has taught us nothing else.

I love you PA. True fucking words right there. dude should be quoted ..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I know this is not the 'correct' response, but i had a serious problem with oxycontin, but have never had a problem with alcohol. I go out for drinks and can enjoy myself just drinking beer, catch a nice alcohol buzz, socialize, and be done with it. Dont REPLACE H with alcohol, but dont deprive yourself of a night of drinkin man. It'll be a long, boring, and miserable life if you cant have any sort of 'release' from complete sobriety at all man. However, when i get drunk, i tend to crave oxy so fucking hard its ridiculas, but i just have to tell myself to man up, and be thankful for the booze in my system, and the cravings tend to go away rather quickly, BUT SOMETIMES THEY DONT AND ITS HELL. So i dont really know what to tell you, but i drink and smoke pot, and am able to live a productive life. On oxy tho, forget about it i was an addicted loser with no sense of drive whatsoever. Take that for what its worth.

I don't think it's bad to avoid ethanol completely, which is what I'm doing. I have never had a problem with it either, I just don't like it.

I think if you crave oxycodone while drunk, it might be better not to drink anyways (or at least drink until you are drunk). Cannabis is a very worthwhile drug as it is not addictive in the same way most addictive drugs are, and it is used for many medicinal reasons.

make it clear now - I haven't even had bupe today, not 1mg - feel fine - i detoxed myself this time for myself.

That's amazing TAoW, I am too sensitive to opiates and I couldn't have done that myself in such a small amount of time.

In the long run, if you told me i could never take mdma again, i would be furious / sad - but I would never waste a dose of mdma either - likewise K - right NOW I am gonna focus on whatever recovery is, ie where do I live when the days run out t minus very fucking soon =[

Tough situation man, but I'm sure you can get to an ideal place in life! Just work hard and you'll earn it in no time.

couldn't disagree more bro - but if it works for you go for it - weed the strain makes a HUGE diff while wd'ing I've found, but in general a good headie is gonna keep your stomach from knots. As for drinking, well I dunno I drank more cuz I was like wtf do I do since im not doing heroin. I caught up with good people, it worked for me - but were all different.

This has been my experience with high grade too.