RCs Dermorphin, Phenibut, Methoxetamine & JWH/CP to replace their illegal counterparts

[waldo777]

Dermorphin, Phenibut, Methoxetamine & JWH/CP to replace their illegal counterparts

Dermorphin ----> opiates
Phenibut ------> Benzo's
JWH/CP etc....-------> Marijuana
Methoxetamine ------> Ketamine or to add a little flavor to the day


Yes, these are chemicals that have not been researched to any significant extent and could be potentially very harmful. HOWEVER, getting arrested, going to jail, or just taking street drugs in general can also be very harmful. So with that said,

would taking Dermorphin and Phenibut on a regular daily basis be sufficiently similar to Heroin/Oxycodone & Klonopin to act as legal replacements? A very sensitive scale would OF COURSE be used for dosing, as well as a very strict, "start small & titrate up as needed" dosing regimen would be followed. The JWH/CP would also be taken w/ the same safety measures.

So what are peoples' thoughts, is this a viable way of legally replacing these particular DOC?

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I wouldn't call them "replacements", they could be substitutes...maybe.

Yes, these are chemicals that have not been researched to any significant extent and could be potentially very harmful. HOWEVER, getting arrested, going to jail, or just taking street drugs in general can also be very harmful.

...

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Methoxetamine cannot substitute for ketamine as ketamine is much more safe than methoxetamine.

Marijuana is the safer alternative to JWH-___ drugs, and if you aren't happy with its legal classification, then move to a location which better serves your interests.

 

[Sessionz]

Methoxetamine cannot substitute for ketamine as ketamine is much more safe than methoxetamine.

Marijuana is the safer alternative to JWH-___ drugs, and if you aren't happy with its legal classification, then move to a location which better serves your interests.

Why do you say ketamine is safer than methoxetamine?

 

[Albion]

Why do you say ketamine is safer than methoxetamine?

Because it is. Methoxetamine seems to have a more complex personality than ketamine.

If you break the two drugs down on a pharmacological level, they won't seem particularly similar at all.

 

[amapola]

So what are peoples' thoughts, is this a viable way of legally replacing these particular DOC?

So you are trying to evaluate the difference between the damage caused by legal trouble and the damage caused by unknown side effects of a variety of RCs?

This question is completely unanswerable as we don't have enough information about the long term health effects of the RCs. Never mind the differing laws throughout the world and the value one puts on their own health and freedom making it a completely personal question.

If anything this thread should belong in the Philosophy forum and be about quantifying abstract qualities.

I can't see the harm reduction value in this thread, but if people want to spend time endlessly debating the value of RCs I think we can find a place for it and I'll leave it here for now.

 

[waldo777]

Yes well I would love to live in Amsterdam but, no, I'm not going to uproot my life to smoke some weed. And I don't use ketamine frequently at all, but if a legal and similar compound exists I would rather use that a few times per year than I would try to find and buy illegal ketamine.
But more to the point, my real interest is with dermorphin and phenibut. Can I take these substances daily? other than the dangers these 2 RCs share with their illegal counterparts, what if any novel dangers do Dermorphin and Phenibut posses?

 

[sekio]

Addiction, psychological dependence etc. The legal status of drugs says nothing about their safety or lack thereof.

 

[Sessionz]

Because it is.

I'm looking for a slightly more in-depth answer.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Why do you say ketamine is safer than methoxetamine?

It's much easier to overdose from methoxetamine.

With ketamine, it's easy to binge out and use a whole bunch. With methoxetamine, if you do this, it'll likely end up not so well for you. I know someone who did this - and they ended up in the ER.

Because it is. Methoxetamine seems to have a more complex personality than ketamine.

If you break the two drugs down on a pharmacological level, they won't seem particularly similar at all.

This is exactly why. There must be something quite different happening with methoxetamine; my guess based upon people's statements would be some sort of mu-agonism, although it might be a bad guess, I'm not sure.

I'm looking for a slightly more in-depth answer.

I can find out specifically why they went to the ER, but it was because they overdosed and some negative physical-based event was happening, it's not that they were freaking out, they were found unconscious from what I have gathered.

 

[Albion]

If you're looking for a slightly more in-depth answer, do take care to note what happened when I combined MXE with another drug. I have compiled quite a detailed account of what happened on three separate occasions.


(1)

I can go into plenty more detail with regards to what actually happened.

I took 100mg 5-APB. Waited for it to kick in and plugged 50mg MXE. This was absolutely awesome. It was a completely lucid journey through my bedroom roof into the universe beyond. Very nice indeed. Under the influence of the MXE I remember dosing another 100mg of 5-APB. I had about 4 hours of unadulterated fun.

However as I started to return to reality, the hallucinations simply got more and more intense (They were of the wobbly-eye, wiggly worm, floating translucent blob variety). These symptoms got gradually worse over the space of about 2 hours. I tried to keep time, but I couldn't read or understand the time on my phone.

My vision was a mess. The intensity of my bedside lamp completely overwhelmed my field of view. Everything turned to a red and purple infra-red camera-style vision.

My brain was making a 'swish-swish-swish-swish' sound, and felt as though it was about to burst.

I felt as though I was filling with air, unbearably 'inflating' far more than capacity allowed.

My heart beat was just a blur. Was beating so, so fast....Faster than it ever should.

Muscles were shaking uncontrollably, whole body tensed up.

I had to keep moving about because every time I laid down, consciousness seemed to slip away. If I stopped moving for even a few seconds, I lost all feeling in my body. As it was, my brain was aching, my face had gone numb, extremities were numb. My vision began to fade, began to look as though I was watching events through a flickering projector. Everything just turned to pot, faculties such as sight, sound, touch were all failing. Naturally I believed I was going to die.

So I continued the cycle of calm breathing, sitting up, sitting down, turning light on, turning light off, so that I wasn't overwhelmed by numbness and blindness. I ought to point out that I became seriously exhausted. I almost gave up. However after 3 hours or so, the effects began to subside. Whatever it was, it felt like it could have been lethal. I'm sure it's enough of an ordeal to put a body into shock, or trigger heart failure.

So dopamine syndrome? Serotonin syndrome? The level of hallucination I had would be on par with high dopamine levels, but I did not become psychotic or paranoid about anything other than my own health. By the 48 hour mark the effects had gone completely, but left me very shaken.

People who have previously combined MXE with 6-APB and 5-APB, you must have been very lucky to not have run into a situation like this. Also this is probably the last time I try out a combo because others recommended it. It is apparent that this is not safe at all.


Hopefully this provides enough information for someone in the know to recognise the symptoms and hazard a guess as to what happened, and how much danger I was really in.

(2)

I took 50mg of MXE yesterday evening. I had been on 5-APB the day before. Everything was normal, only I couldn't get to sleep after no matter what, even well after the effects of the MXE had worn off. I started to get hot flushes running up around my temples along with the occasional shiver. Upon trying to sleep, within seconds of me laying still my face would contort and my tongue would roll back inside of me and prevent me from breathing. I'd come over all pleasurable as this happened. Then one particular bout of this left me seriously struggling to remain conscious. I had to get up, move about, in order to fight this overwhelming feeling of sleepiness. I've been fighting this feeling for a couple of hours now. It's constantly trying to sedate me. If I shut my eyes for one moment the euphoria and drowsiness overwhelms me. My body goes rapidly numb, my tongue rolls back, my face contorts. It feels as though my body is trying to put me in a coma. I feel a lot of pressure around my temples, my brain is also squelching a little. This is very unnerving. The fact that my body is blasting out this euphoria, urging me to go along with it. But it feels so, so wrong. I'm not sure how long this is going to go on for, all I know is that as long as I don't give in, I'm still alive and breathing.

What the hell is happening to me??? It feels as though my own body is trying to lure me into something awful. It's so sinister, my own body has foregone pain and instead chosen to knock me out cold with an irresistible euphoria. Like it's saying 'there there, it'll all be over soon'. Is this something anyone has encountered before?

(3)

I'm feeling much better thankyou.

Unfortunately the exact same thing happened yesterday, a full 3 days after I took the 5-APB and more than a day since the last incident. I just dosed the MXE, and 7 hours later I was struggling to hold it together. 1 solid hour of moving about, massaging my head, trying not to let it build up, or let myself get too panicked. I don't know whether 5-APB has such a long half-life that it was still dangerous, or whether I've developed a dangerous reaction to MXE. I'm never touching either drug again, nor any other for a very, very long time.

There is a definite pattern to this experience though.

First 1-4 hours standard MXE experience. No troubles

Hours 5-6 I return to baseline mentally, but physically weak. Coordination is awful, fingers and extremities become numbed. Vision becomes very wobbly, my eyes slide about as though on ice, unable to keep them on any particular focal point.

Hours 7-10 consciousness slips, rhythmic squelching in head, brain feels as though it is inflating. Hallucinations (vision becomes reminiscent of rain running down a window), colour distortion, detachment from reality. Speech slurred.

Hours 10 + slowly fades away (very slowly).

Even if you don't read it all, don't say I didn't warn you. Ketamine would not have caused the problems I encountered. Therefore methoxetamine is more dangerous.

 

[daddysgone]

Dermorphin is not going to work if you are looking for a legal opioid.

Aside from the mostly negative reports from those that have tried it, there is an additional problem.

Like most opioid peptides, dermorphin has an extremely short duration (we are talking 30 minutes or so). So even if it were affordable, easily dosed, known to be safe, and enjoyable, you would still have to deal with how short acting it is.

 

[Carver Slice]

I wouldn't call Phenibut an RC, it's well researched and has been around since the 60's.

I've always enjoyed it, but I'd prefer most benzo's over it without question.

From both a therapeutic and recreational stand point.

 

[waldo777]

To the above two posters thank you, your responses were very informative.
To clarify I didn't mean to suggest legality was an issue for me, I simply mentioned it b/c it is a bonus-staying out of jail is certainly a reduction of harm IMO....nonetheless that is NOT my concern, I meant to ask: if taking Dermorphin and Phenibut on a daily basis was known to be more physically harmful than taking another powerful opiate such as heroin, and another benzo/barb/sedative/etc... Such as klonopin?

Has anyone taken Dermorphin to substitute for their opiate of choice for a whole day or longer? I'm looking for people who are addicted to opiates----need to take multiple doses every day or will go into w/d. Has anyone like this used Dermorphin to substitute or does anyone have knowledge on that particular issue?
I wonder the same for Phenibut?

Thanks in advance

 

[dokomo]

As amapola elaborated above, the original question can really only result in endless speculative discussion based on individual opinion and values.

We already have informational threads on each of the mentioned substances, so check those out for information there. As several people in this thread have already indicated, many of them are simply not well researched and therefore impossible to gauge the long-term effects from.

Closed.