neeed some help from an expierenced user for a good beeginer cycle

S

shift5260

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
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hey whats up guys im 25 yr old 6,3 ..195 pounds... im a beginner body builder i have been working out for about 4 yrs on and off with a personal trainer twice a week with him and twice by my self but i dont feel like im getting any bigger im new to steriods and would like a a few sug, for some good stacks to bulk up with some solid muscle. im looking for more of a bulky but cutt look to sum it up a biggger fram. i heard anadrol 50 with some primo, and dura 50, and some test 250 once a week,,, could be ok but i dont know what to use for a post work out or how to use it correctly and what to use for an estro blocker so i dont get bitch tits ?...or if those are even any good steriods i know anadrol 50 strong but could be dangeros im also looking for more of a rapid gain something that works a lil faster than others if some one could help me out with a legit site and a good stack id appreatiate it alot! u can e mail me on my girlfriends e mail mines down [email protected] thanks tyler
 
What is your diet like? Your diet and nutrition, as well as training MUST be on point before starting any AAS cylce. Steroids are supplements that can be used to supplement your workout, not as any sort of "magic muscle builder" and should only be used as such. How long have you been researching using AAS? I recommend at least a year of solid research, training, and diet before even considering AAS. Get bloodwork done first to see your natural levels of testosterone, as well as dicuss with your physician any possible cardiovascular issues you might have.
 
As DrHiney said, the good core to any workout regimen is diet, you can pump all the shit you want in you, if you are not eating right, sleeping enough, nor working out properly and not going overboard as far as too much cardio, or using too little, or too much weight, its all for nothing.

A beginners cycle, does not need to be fancy by any means, combining numerous compounds is pointless as aside from this being a science, and believe me using AAS is very much science, its also a bit of luck. Some guys use massive amounts to get what they desire, others use next to nothing and they excel far beyond what anyone could imagine.

If you do have insurance, then I also agree with DR H and get a blood panel done of ur test levels, and free test levels, at 25 and have never using before ur levels should be in 300-500 range, a normal healthy adult male should have between 200-800mg/dl of testosterone in their system.

Start joining bodybuilding boards, and READ, dont ask questions. They have search engines for every topic you can think of. From reading what you have all jumbled in your post you honestly have no clue what you are doing, and I say that w no disrespect, most of us didn't when we started, today's guys are lucky that the net has they resources, and believe me I know, Ive been using on and off for nearly 17 yrs. When I began, Growth Hormone was around $800 per kit, today a kit costs roughly $110, a bottle of testosterone was $75, now its $25. People think that $10 for an amp of test is outrageous, but little do they know that American made testosterone from a pharmacy like CVS, costs $125 for a 10ml bottle of either Watson, Paddock, or Sandoz testosterone cypionate that's $12.50 per ml. But people will pay upwards of $175 for a bottle of this stuff as its made in the USA, and ZERO chance of being counterfeit.

Lastly, DO NOT be in a rush, this is how you will fuck up a cycle, get it wrong, do your PCT(post cycle therapy) wrong, and wonder why your balls are still atrophied, and that sex drive you had before you began just aint quite there.
Since you are a beginner, I would suggest just using testosterone on its own for a period of 12 weeks, and see how you do from there, a dose of 500mg a week is more than enough for a first go around. 250mg is more a medical dose that they use in guys for hormone replacement therapy, and wont stimulate too much muscle growth, that's a dose that would be used during bridging, and that's something we'll discuss long from now.
I will give you a very basic cycle, where if you eat right, train right and use these compounds correctly there is no reason you cant add a good 25lbs of muscle when its all said and done.

Testosterone Enanthate dosed at 250mg/ml- 500mg per week, split into 2 shots
Nandrolone Deconate(DECA) dosed at 300mg/ml- 300mg per week, split into 2 shots, you will use 1/2 an ml 2x per week
Dianabol (Dbols) 30mg per day, for 6 weeks, the first 6 weeks of your cycle you will use these, dont take all 30mg at one shot, take 10mg 3x a day

Your entire cycle will last 10 weeks, you will begin all the compounds at the same time, only the dbols you will drop at the 6th week, dbols are classified as a 17-aa steroid, which means it makes a double pass through the liver and is harsh on that organ, the injectables are not.
With such a low dose of testosterone, using an aromatize inhibitor is really not necessary, and your body needs estrogen as much as it needs testosterone, only when you get into much higher doses will these be crucial, but always be safe and not sorry, so get ur hands on some Novladex, aka Tamoxifen should bitch tits should come about during the course of this cycle, to rebound your test levels, you will go on a 4 week regimen of a drug known as Clomid, the first dose should be 300mgs, thats day 1, after that for the next 2 weeks, the dose should be 100mgs daily, and then the final 2 weeks, 50mg daily.

That should take care of everything you need to know, I would suggest joining the muscular development forums, and a website known as outlawmuscle.com there you may find things you seek

Good luck, PM me if you need any further help, but dont message me on how or where to get it, I will help in another aspect except in acquiring these drugs, you are on ur own there just like most folk are
TGM
 
Very good info and advice Glimma!! You laid out an excellent starters program.

500mg isn't really that low for beginners, it's the average starting point for most. Either way, I would still run an AI. Yes the body does need some estro, but I would still suggest using an AI in the lowest possible dose. I'd also include 3g of vitamin C ED. If using adex, start at .25mg EOD. If you use aromasin (far stronger) start at around 12mg EOD. If you notice any signs of bloating and water retention, you can up the AI dose.

Lastly, I'd suggest running some HCG along side your cycle starting week 2. 500iu a week split in two works for most. If you do not use HCG, you will experience testicular atrophy. Stop the HCG when PCT begins, don't use it while on PCT. I almost agree with the clomid dose....perhaps a bit much. I have always used 200mg for day one and day two. There after....100/100/75/50.

Again, very good info Glimma.


/V
 
Another thing to note,

When it comes to an aromatase inhibitor(AI) like Victor said I would definitely keep some Arimadex (Generic anastrazole is now available) or Aromasin on hand in case of gynecomastia (gyno), or in case of any water retention as well. However I am not sure if I would use it on your first cycle. Understanding whether or not you are prone to gyno is useful knowledge if you are going to consider running multiple cycles, however most people do not want to risk getting gyno flares. This is really something for us to debate on the board, but I thought I would share my opinion.

When it comes to HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin), follow Victors dosage that he has lined up for you. If you are going to run a 10 week cycle, then continue to use the HCG weeks 11 through 13 before you start your PCT. This will help remove the free testosterone out of your body that will remain there anywhere up to 21 days depending on what ester of testosterone you are using, and it will also help speed up your recovery process and aid to bring your HPTA back to normal levels. Because most first cycles are run with testosterone cypionate (cypionate being the ester) it can stay in your system anywhere from 18-21 days after your last injection. After 14 days of running only the HCG by itself, begin your PCT about 3 or 4 days after your last shot of HCG.

This next question is directed to more experienced users,
When running PCT with nolvadex or clomid (clomiphene) I have read reports that tapering your dosage, or really front-loading the dose, is pointless and that the body cannot actually use these high doses for any benefit. Anyone have any research to prove that front-loading actually helps?
 
DrHiney said:
This next question is directed to more experienced users,
When running PCT with nolvadex or clomid (clomiphene) I have read reports that tapering your dosage, or really front-loading the dose, is pointless and that the body cannot actually use these high doses for any benefit. Anyone have any research to prove that front-loading actually helps?
Click to expand...

Yet another excellent post, DrHiney.


Frontloading explained-

Front loading is a process to saturate your receptors with the peak dose from week one to ensure stable blood levels instead of it taking several weeks to peak like most long esters,this is why most people don't feel the effect of a long ester until its built up substantial amount in the blood stream, the problem can be solve by front loading which is doubling the amount of mg in the first wk,

When you inject AAS regardless of the ester a certain amount is released over the next 24-48hrs the only thing the esters does is extends the half life of the AAS it wont slow down the first initial release of the AAS,, so after the the first release of the AAS as mentioned above the reminder is released over a certain amount of time up to the half life,

Why wait for you to feel the effects or for it to kick in around wks 6-7, you would be better of getting the blood androgen level up sooner,spiking and working so you feel the effects of the AAS, If you work out exactly the level of active testosterone and the esterized amount waiting to be activated you will see the advantage of front loading and the benefits -

The example i will show you is the first few weeks of a cycle what is not front loaded and one which is front loaded, please don't look to forward into the ester because its not really important to the final results other than dose difference, lets give an example of AAS with half life of 7 days -

Lets use the standard cycle of 500mgs per week that we mentioned above.

Week 1- 500mg used........After 7 days 250mg left - so active test delivered in that wk 250mg

Week 2 - 500mg used.......+ 250mg (left over) = 750mg - test active for that wk = 375mg

Week 3 - 500mg used.......+375mg (left over)= 875mg - test active for that wk=437.5mg

Week 4 - 500mg used........+437.5mg(left over)=937.5mg - test active for that wk=488.7mg

Week 5 - 500mg used........+488.7mg(left over)=988.7mg - test active for that wk=494.3mg

Week 6 - 500mg used........+494.3mg(left over)=994.3mg - test active for that wk=497.1mg

Week 7 - 500mg used........+497.1mg(left over)=997.1- test active for that week=498.5mg

And so on...............

Takes 7 weeks to get the full weekly dose of 500mgs

250mg in the first wk
375mg in the second wk
437.5mg in the third wk
488.7mg in the fourth wk
494.3mg in the fifth wk
497.1mg in the sixth wk
498.5mg in the seventh wk
Front loaded cycle of 500mg per week -

Week 1 - 1000mg used.......After 7 days 500mg left - so active test delivered in that 1st week 500mg....bingo!!!!
Then back to the normal dose of 500mg per wk, job done!

By the end of the first week you will achieve the peak dose as opposed to the 7th wk of a cycle not front loaded, 1 wk or 7 wks for peak blood levels? no argument really, you will have the benefit of the gear kicking straight away,without doubt this is an excellent way to achieve your goals and get the full strength of the gear kicking striaght away, remember the body grows at its best when its fresh which is noramally at the start of a cycle, cut the whole length down of the cycle and front load it, less time shutdown, faster stable blood levels at peak dosage, results striaght from the start, reason why many stay on cycle for many wks is because of when the gear starts to kick fully so why not cut the length down which will cut the time down for shutdown, with front load no need to stay on for so long,

Long esters and short esters can be used when front loading, long esters work better and should be doubled during the first wk of the cycle and the short esters should be doubled on the first day of the cycle but not that much in it tho!, this is due to the half life of short esters, a easier way around this would be - if you implement the rule of - with every standard dose you inject double each time you jab until you reach the first half life, this will ensure you wont go over the required amount and this will hit your peak blood levels in the first week, no unstable levels and straight away in the first wk you will be running the required amount,

Many like this method and many prefer kickstarting the front end of the cycle an oral i would say try them both and see which one you respond best to, i would advice anybody who likes running the standard length of cycle with long esters to try this method it may just change the way you cycle in the future.



/V
 
TheGlimmaMan said:
As DrHiney said, the good core to any workout regimen is diet, you can pump all the shit you want in you, if you are not eating right, sleeping enough, nor working out properly and not going overboard as far as too much cardio, or using too little, or too much weight, its all for nothing.

A beginners cycle, does not need to be fancy by any means, combining numerous compounds is pointless as aside from this being a science, and believe me using AAS is very much science, its also a bit of luck. Some guys use massive amounts to get what they desire, others use next to nothing and they excel far beyond what anyone could imagine.

If you do have insurance, then I also agree with DR H and get a blood panel done of ur test levels, and free test levels, at 25 and have never using before ur levels should be in 300-500 range, a normal healthy adult male should have between 200-800mg/dl of testosterone in their system.

Start joining bodybuilding boards, and READ, dont ask questions. They have search engines for every topic you can think of. From reading what you have all jumbled in your post you honestly have no clue what you are doing, and I say that w no disrespect, most of us didn't when we started, today's guys are lucky that the net has they resources, and believe me I know, Ive been using on and off for nearly 17 yrs. When I began, Growth Hormone was around $800 per kit, today a kit costs roughly $110, a bottle of testosterone was $75, now its $25. People think that $10 for an amp of test is outrageous, but little do they know that American made testosterone from a pharmacy like CVS, costs $125 for a 10ml bottle of either Watson, Paddock, or Sandoz testosterone cypionate that's $12.50 per ml. But people will pay upwards of $175 for a bottle of this stuff as its made in the USA, and ZERO chance of being counterfeit.

Lastly, DO NOT be in a rush, this is how you will fuck up a cycle, get it wrong, do your PCT(post cycle therapy) wrong, and wonder why your balls are still atrophied, and that sex drive you had before you began just aint quite there.
Since you are a beginner, I would suggest just using testosterone on its own for a period of 12 weeks, and see how you do from there, a dose of 500mg a week is more than enough for a first go around. 250mg is more a medical dose that they use in guys for hormone replacement therapy, and wont stimulate too much muscle growth, that's a dose that would be used during bridging, and that's something we'll discuss long from now.
I will give you a very basic cycle, where if you eat right, train right and use these compounds correctly there is no reason you cant add a good 25lbs of muscle when its all said and done.

Testosterone Enanthate dosed at 250mg/ml- 500mg per week, split into 2 shots
Nandrolone Deconate(DECA) dosed at 300mg/ml- 300mg per week, split into 2 shots, you will use 1/2 an ml 2x per week
Dianabol (Dbols) 30mg per day, for 6 weeks, the first 6 weeks of your cycle you will use these, dont take all 30mg at one shot, take 10mg 3x a day

Your entire cycle will last 10 weeks, you will begin all the compounds at the same time, only the dbols you will drop at the 6th week, dbols are classified as a 17-aa steroid, which means it makes a double pass through the liver and is harsh on that organ, the injectables are not.
With such a low dose of testosterone, using an aromatize inhibitor is really not necessary, and your body needs estrogen as much as it needs testosterone, only when you get into much higher doses will these be crucial, but always be safe and not sorry, so get ur hands on some Novladex, aka Tamoxifen should bitch tits should come about during the course of this cycle, to rebound your test levels, you will go on a 4 week regimen of a drug known as Clomid, the first dose should be 300mgs, thats day 1, after that for the next 2 weeks, the dose should be 100mgs daily, and then the final 2 weeks, 50mg daily.

That should take care of everything you need to know, I would suggest joining the muscular development forums, and a website known as outlawmuscle.com there you may find things you seek

Good luck, PM me if you need any further help, but dont message me on how or where to get it, I will help in another aspect except in acquiring these drugs, you are on ur own there just like most folk are
TGM
Click to expand...
TGM:

hey man thanks for all the info but what would i use for the post cycle therapy? What exactly does it mean and is it something i buy or something i do on my own? And the stack you suggested; how long until i notice gain off that? and will i notice gain using test 250 twice a week for 12 weeks like you said, your the only one on here that seems like they know what their talking about with your expirience i know im new to this thats why i have so many questions. Do i need to use the test for 12 weeks before the cycle, or can i do the pct and start the cycle right away? Also, you said you wont tell me where i can get them but you did say you would "help in another aspect except in acquiring these drugs" what exactly did you mean by that? im going to my doctor to get my test levels can my doctor help with getting the test? thanks for all your help

-tyler
 
^ You will see some gains rather quick if you use a front kicker, otherwise with long esters, 4-6 weeks in is when you really see your body change. As for getting test from your MD, it's possible, but hard to do. He will most likely refer you to an endo.



/V
 
Really great info Victor, I think a lot of people would benefit in reading that post, as well as visiting that website. Front loading testosterones is a great way to reach the maximum potency of the drug quickly and also aids to shorten the cycle.

However why do many still suggest front loading clomid or nolvadex? While it seems to me that the theory of front loading for PCT is to balance the fact that the bioavailability of either drug will not be 100%, so therefor upping the dosage ensures that at least 50mg (clomid) is metabolized and not removed through first-pass metabolism. However it has been shown that clomid's bioavailability is in upwards of 90% or greater. Because clomid can act as an agonist or antagonist depending on tissue, and because most users HPTA is still mostly shutdown by the start of PCT, it seems to me that there is no benefit in blocking estrogen by dosing 100mg vs. 50mg. Again this is only my understanding of the pharmacology of the drug, and because I have not run many AAS cycles, users may feel a benefit from the front loading, however I did not.

Shift,
For post cycle therapy, I recommend Clomid (clomiphene citrate) or if this is unavailable to you, then I recommend nolvadex (tamoxifen). These are FDA approved medications and require a RX to obtain however, there are underground companies that supply such meds. Most users, if they can, prefer the RX only versions, as they are sure in their potency and the underground meds may be "bunk". If you discuss with your doctor your use of AAS, they may be willing to prescribe such meds, however I have never known anyone that has gotten a physician to "approve" of their AAS use, and therefor will not aid the patient in obtaining such meds. As far as testosterone is concerned, this theory is the same, your physician may be willing to prescribe testosterone to you, however in my experience this is only done for those with low levels of tesosterone, and the dosage is not one appealing to bodybuilders. Most TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) dosages do not exceed 200-250mg per week. While you still may see some benefit from this dose, it will not be as great as the dose outlined for you above^^.
 
dont use the dianabol imo

too much risk for side effects that are going to be hard to deal with for your first cycle. Run test at 250mg with a tiny bit of an AI (like 5-10mg of exemestane per day). Diet will dictate gains.

honestly the entire idea of cycles seems very inane to me. If your natural test is robust enough to rebound after a cycle then just roll with your natural test (you're far from maxed out genetically). If your natty test is in the gutter then jump on a replacement dosage (for life). This is not a cycle this is medicine.

Leave the cycles for the competitors that 'grow into the show' - they run one high dosed cycle per year leading up to their show...then they deflate back down in size for the off season training.
 
Matsuo Munefusa. said:
frontloading testosterone is a great way to get elevated RBC/HCT and BP. Stupid idea.
Click to expand...

Exactly, that's why those who don't understand all the science and how it's properly done shouldn't do it. This is not for the newbie. I've enclosed a link to an article, you should read it.

The graph enclosed might help you better understand why some of us use this method.


/V
 
tyler - from your last post it seems that you were a little confused about PCT. This is done AFTER the cycle not before.

eg

weeks 1-12 250mg test 2x a week
weeks 14-18 PCT.
 
there is no set point for the beginning of PCT. The only way to determine when to begin PCT if this is your first cycle is to either ballpark it (dangerous) or bloodtest yourself around 10 days after your last shot to determine your personal elimination rate.
 
shift5260 said:
hey whats up guys im 25 yr old 6,3 ..195 pounds... im a beginner body builder i have been working out for about 4 yrs on and off with a personal trainer twice a week with him and twice by my self but i dont feel like im getting any bigger im new to steriods and would like a a few sug, for some good stacks to bulk up with some solid muscle. im looking for more of a bulky but cutt look to sum it up a biggger fram. i heard anadrol 50 with some primo, and dura 50, and some test 250 once a week,,, could be ok but i dont know what to use for a post work out or how to use it correctly and what to use for an estro blocker so i dont get bitch tits ?...or if those are even any good steriods i know anadrol 50 strong but could be dangeros im also looking for more of a rapid gain something that works a lil faster than others if some one could help me out with a legit site and a good stack id appreatiate it alot! u can e mail me on my girlfriends e mail mines down [email protected] thanks tyler
Click to expand...

good simple first cycle

wks

1-4 30mg dbol a day spread out
1-8 200mg deca (100mg a shot mixed with the test)
1-8 250mg test-e (125mg a shot mixed with the deca... yes 2 shots a week
but it keeps you level)
9-12 250mg test-e
9-12 200mg trenb-e (not acetate)... and yes mix it with the test and do
2 shots spread out

13-14 250iu of hcg eod
01-14 1/2mg of arimidex every day

pretty mild cycle... will bulk you weeks 1-8 and tend to cut (really just loose excess water buildup) and still build muscle weeks 9-12 and restart your boys weeks 13-14 so you don't loose all your gains.

eat at least a gram of protein per pound of body mass a day (more is better) and sleep 8 hours a day.
 
shift5260 said:
TGM:

hey man thanks for all the info but what would i use for the post cycle therapy? What exactly does it mean and is it something i buy or something i do on my own? And the stack you suggested; how long until i notice gain off that? and will i notice gain using test 250 twice a week for 12 weeks like you said, your the only one on here that seems like they know what their talking about with your expirience i know im new to this thats why i have so many questions. Do i need to use the test for 12 weeks before the cycle, or can i do the pct and start the cycle right away? Also, you said you wont tell me where i can get them but you did say you would "help in another aspect except in acquiring these drugs" what exactly did you mean by that? im going to my doctor to get my test levels can my doctor help with getting the test? thanks for all your help

-tyler
Click to expand...

Guys were gonna, fucking confuse the hell out of him with 12 different variations of the same thing. A starting cycle should be basic, and when I mean basic I mean straight test, or the old meat and potatoes cycle for beginner bb looking to put on size, thats test, deca and dbols. You guys have your own school of thought, I personally see no need for any type of aromatize inhibitor, especially as one as strong as aromasin tossed in. At 500mg of test, will he gain water retention, sure, and he'll get some some from the deca, but thats progesterone and you need caber for that, so thats why I was trying to leave all these extras out of the answer, hes not even certain about PCT, let alone proper dosing or use or need of an AI. Which is my opinion urs may vary

Shift, this is for you. First, go to your doc tell him youve been feeling run down, lethragic, ur sex drive hasnt been what its normally been, say you think it might be stress from work school, or ur woman, but to be sure youd like your test panel run. After that, if you are a healthy guy at 25 like I said before you test levels should be upwards of 400mg/dl, if they arent dont panic, normal is 200-800mg/dl for ALL men. Ur doctor isnt going to prescribe you test if your levels are normal, and believe with the way the govt is trying to make steroids a schedule 1 drug like crack, many are beyond paranoid to prescribe it. You will have to acquire this, and everything else the same way we do, with a good friend in another country.

With the 3 drugs I suggested, the one you will see results with quickly is the dbol, it will give you a rush of strength, but this is where you need to be careful as ligaments and tendons, dont strengthen as fast as the muscle fibers do, and guys go gung ho, and snap shit, wind up with pec tears, rotator cuff injuries and so on, also the dbol will make you retain water as well so ur gonna look puffy, but its the whole point behind a bulking cycle, you want to add the size, and believe me when you begin to lift heavier weight you want that water there to help cushion the joints.

The testosterone, and deca, will take at least 4 weeks to really kick in ur system, in a 12 week cycle your not gonna see anything dramtic until at least the 6th week, when you finally drop that dbol, the water drains out of you, and whats left is what has been built, not by the drugs but by the diet you have been maintaining, and of course ur training. Because your using gear dont over train either, easiest way to atrophy a muscle rather than enhance it.

Also, what I meant to say is that I will help you in any other aspect but acquiring these drugs, but should you join the forum outlawmuscle, that I recommended you may find what you seek. And should you join, know this, read that forums rules to a T, as they will ban ur ass for the most minor infraction. The discussion of using anabolics is allowed there, but there is NO mention of acquiring anything domestically, meaning from a source within the US, or speaking of any source in the US. The people they host, live in countries where it is legal to possess anabolics, and that Shift is more than you need to know.

Lastly, PCT is what you use when ur cycle is through. Now there are several ways of doing this, but the simplest is just by using the clomid regimine I laid out for you, playing around with HCG, and tren, and arimidex and all that other shit isnt necessary, if you understand its purpose and how to apply it, by all means, but since you dont, and it will be 20 more questions which may throw you off from what you want, you need 6 things. You need
2 -10ml bottles of test enanthate dosed at 250mg/ml -
1 10ml bottle of deca dosed at 300mg/ml
100 dbols, dosed at either 5 or 10mg taking either 6 5mg or 3 10mg
Clomid is 50mgs a tab, so do the math on that one, Im tired, and a box of novaldex, enough to run 40mgs ed should gyno creep its way in, novla is dosed at 10mg, and last but not least you need syringes, get 1 or 1.5" 23g 3ml capacity syringes

enjoy the expierence man, its confusing at first but if you keep it simple you get what you want in the long run, as time goes you will learn how to construct cycles for yourself through trial and error, my best cycles are a combo of test, tren, deca and eq...most folks dont understand why the hell I would use deca and eq together, well I do, and with that cocktail and a few other things, Ive actually managed to clock in at 276lbs, between 6-8%bf, not an easy task but eventually it does, just like everything else you practice
 
Very impressed with da GlimmaMan!!! Guys, his advice is solid and we are lucky to have him here.



/V
 
hey victor z06 u said 3g of vit c. my question is y such a high dose i mean wat r the benefits
 
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