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Mushrooms & long-term effects

Drewshbag

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Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
28
My friend doesnt want to shroom because he feels that shrooms are illegal for a reason, and that reason is that they are really bad for you in one way or another. Im trying to convince him that shrooms are not bad for you, and are illegal because people are potentially dangerous under the influence of hallucinogens. But he doesnt believe me. So I have a few questions for you guys to maybe help settle this and convince him (or me) otherwise:

1. Do mushrooms have any long-term effects? If so, what are they, and why are they bad/good?

2. Do the benefits of the trip outweigh any negative side-effects that may or may not come with it?

3. Why do you think shrooms are illegal?

4. Is marijuana more or less harmful to you than shrooms?

5. He seems really convinced that this is true, so do shrooms really make your brain stem bleed?
 
1. Do mushrooms have any long-term effects? If so, what are they, and why are they bad/good?

Only in the sense that any other experience has long-term effects; you retain a memory of it. Psilocin is pretty harmless as intoxicants go.

2. Do the benefits of the trip outweigh any negative side-effects that may or may not come with it?
This is a personal decision.

3. Why do you think shrooms are illegal?
If they weren't illegal, it would make the DEA look dumb. Granted, from our perspective, the DEA already looks dumb, but we're not the voting majority.

4. Is marijuana more or less harmful to you than shrooms?
Smoked, almost definitely more. Cannabis smoking does not seem to cause cancer (possibly because cannabis smoke unlike tobacco smoke does not contain highly carcinogenic TSNAs) but it is still smoking and still involves inhaling y'know particulate matter. Via any other route, they're about equally harmless.

5. He seems really convinced that this is true, so do shrooms really make your brain stem bleed?
The brain stem cannot even "bleed" per se due to the presence of the blood-brain barrier (there is no blood "in" the brain; blood vessels run through the brain and transfer nutrients to the BECF), so this question makes no sense in context. It seems like a wild myth on par with LSD being cut with strychnine and retained in spinal fluid.
 
im not so sure id ever try to convince anyone to try any psychedelic. it just isnt the right mindset. people should know about them, maybe their availability, but are you really prepared to take responsability if something goes wrong?

theres nothing bad in trying to spread information, but personally, if he doesnt specifically ask to try it, then so be it.
and why would he believe a random group of unknown people on a internet forum giving answers to questions he hasnt asked himself?


on a side note, i think they are illegal because, like all psychedelics, they can be quite unpredictable. the dose varies, the set and setting, the effects, the realizations... without proper information there are a lot of things that can go wrong and leave lasting results (be they good or bad). its not as easy as say smoking a cigarette, or drinking wine, where the results are more predictable.
 
Good answers!

Mushrooms were legal in my country only until recently, and the major reason they banned them was that a French tourist girl, who was very troubled already (i.e. psychiatric case) jumped off a bridge while tripping. Yes tripping can push people over the edge, which is why you should not trip while close to an edge (literal or figuratively speaking). Thinking you can fly off a building is most often not the danger, what is dangerous is precipitating the problems you have already. Of course, the mother was in rage and she took French politics with her. Incident politics don't mind the countless times mushrooms are taken without something tragic happening, they only see the rare occasions.
A panel of researchers were instituted to find out the harm potential of mushrooms and they found none. The stubborn minister decided to ban them anyway. Politicians are sadly often total pussies who blow with the wind (emphasis on blow). Subsequently mushroom fruitbodies were banned, saying nothing about the sclerotia (magic truffles / philosophers stones). Since the ban diverted the attention, nobody really cares about the legality of the truffles until one ignorant and severely deluded tourist will come along one day to abuse them and have an incident... raising hell once again.

So you see, it's better to actually trust research and common sense than the legislature decisions of some people under pressure who absolutely don't know the first thing about the subject! Here in the Netherlands politicians tend to be pussies, easily pressured by politics of larger countries. But US politicians may be worse in some occasions when they want to prove a point, deciding on matters like this as part of a campaign.

Yes, psychedelics are less predictable than alcohol and cigarettes and things like that (many of which are certainly bad for your health), the dynamics are probably that very few people use them because of this (it never really spreads like the use or abuse of a hedonistic drug like mephedrone) or maybe only in a subculture. Since there are not many who use them and support them, or even know what they are all about... the majority is left ignorant and afraid of what they don't know. Mostly guided by things like the media which work extremely similar to incident politics, and anti-drug propaganda. This combination of factors makes the whole case lopsided which does not even allow much room to better through education and information. It is self-sustaining but proven to be ineffective at repressing the part of the population that DOES use psychedelics.

Tobacco has been under heavy fire for a while now, and the societal problems of alcohol also seem to be getting quite some attention but a major reason not to ban them is that the use is so deeply confused into our culture and the countless people that use them (not to mention the money governments make from the taxes... though this is probably compensated again by problems that are caused). Psychedelics and the more obscure classes of drugs are much more easily banned. There is little resistance! Who will speak up for them? I think that it's important that less people use them otherwise the illegalization might be a different story.
Also, if alcohol and tobacco sale is illegalized people would probably still get them from somewhere and harm themselves and others with them but the government would not get the income from them, criminals would.

Mushrooms can have a profound effect not as a drug but as an experience in your life. It can be very impressive in both negative and positive ways and you may carry this with you. Some say lessons are learned in trips (I would) and they can be harsh lessons. Golden rules of set & setting should be taken into consideration to make the outcome as positive as possible, though you cannot know all the factors so it leaves a part of uncertainty. It is best to fill in this part with trust that everything will be okay.

Marijuana does not have such a deep impact acutely but unlike mushrooms it can be psychologically addictive and it has been for me for years (I quit about 2-3 years ago). It made me lazy and altered the way I thought (made it more fuzzy, neutralized things as well in a bad way). Ultimately it was the mental fog that made me stop because I was fed up with it. When taken in moderation there is not much of a problem at all with marijuana.
 
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im not so sure id ever try to convince anyone to try any psychedelic. it just isnt the right mindset. people should know about them, maybe their availability, but are you really prepared to take responsability if something goes wrong?

theres nothing bad in trying to spread information, but personally, if he doesnt specifically ask to try it, then so be it.
and why would he believe a random group of unknown people on a internet forum giving answers to questions he hasnt asked himself?


on a side note, i think they are illegal because, like all psychedelics, they can be quite unpredictable. the dose varies, the set and setting, the effects, the realizations... without proper information there are a lot of things that can go wrong and leave lasting results (be they good or bad). its not as easy as say smoking a cigarette, or drinking wine, where the results are more predictable.

Just to clear things up, im not trying to convince him out of a 100% no answer, he keeps flip-flopping on whether or not he wants to do it. Im just trying to sway him from a 51% no/49% yes to a 51% yes/49% no (at least). And the only reason he would want to shroom or not seems to depend on how many people are doing it (if everyone else is doing it he wants to, if 4-5 people are doing it he says screw that).

Im just hoping that this information can help sway his opinion on shrooms. These questions are based on a conversation we had where he provided faulty answers to each of the questions i asked. I was hoping for an answer like atara's (great answer btw, thanks) that was written with a good sense of knowledge on the subject to show him that the reasons he believes shrooms are "bad" are mostly/entirely false.

I know that response could sound rude, but its hard to convey tone over the internet. I just want you to know i was just clearing things up, there seemed to be some misunderstanding here.

Good answers!

Mushrooms were legal in my country only until recently, and the major reason they banned them was that a French tourist girl, who was very troubled already (i.e. psychiatric case) jumped off a bridge while tripping. Yes tripping can push people over the edge, which is why you should not trip while close to an edge (literal or figuratively speaking). Thinking you can fly off a building is most often not the danger, what is dangerous is precipitating the problems you have already. Of course, the mother was in rage and she took French politics with her. Incident politics don't mind the countless times mushrooms are taken without something tragic happening, they only see the rare occasions.
A panel of researchers were instituted to find out the harm potential of mushrooms and they found none. The stubborn minister decided to ban them anyway. Politicians are sadly often total pussies who blow with the wind (emphasis on blow). Subsequently mushroom fruitbodies were banned, saying nothing about the sclerotia (magic truffles / philosophers stones). Since the ban diverted the attention, nobody really cares about the legality of the truffles until one ignorant and severely deluded tourist will come along one day to abuse them and have an incident... raising hell once again.

So you see, it's better to actually trust research and common sense than the legislature decisions of some people under pressure who absolutely don't know the first thing about the subject! Here in the Netherlands politicians tend to be pussies, easily pressured by politics of larger countries. But US politicians may be worse in some occasions when they want to prove a point, deciding on matters like this as part of a campaign.

Yes, psychedelics are less predictable than alcohol and cigarettes and things like that (many of which are certainly bad for your health), the dynamics are probably that very few people use them because of this (it never really spreads like the use or abuse of a hedonistic drug like mephedrone) or maybe only in a subculture. Since there are not many who use them and support them, or even know what they are all about... the majority is left ignorant and afraid of what they don't know. Mostly guided by things like the media which work extremely similar to incident politics, and anti-drug propaganda. This combination of factors makes the whole case lopsided which does not even allow much room to better through education and information. It is self-sustaining but proven to be ineffective at repressing the part of the population that DOES use psychedelics.

Tobacco has been under heavy fire for a while now, and the societal problems of alcohol also seem to be getting quite some attention but a major reason not to ban them is that the use is so deeply confused into our culture and the countless people that use them (not to mention the money governments make from the taxes... though this is probably compensated again by problems that are caused). Psychedelics and the more obscure classes of drugs are much more easily banned. There is little resistance! Who will speak up for them? I think that it's important that less people use them otherwise the illegalization might be a different story.
Also, if alcohol and tobacco sale is illegalized people would probably still get them from somewhere and harm themselves and others with them but the government would not get the income from them, criminals would.

Mushrooms can have a profound effect not as a drug but as an experience in your life. It can be very impressive in both negative and positive ways and you may carry this with you. Some say lessons are learned in trips (I would) and they can be harsh lessons. Golden rules of set & setting should be taken into consideration to make the outcome as positive as possible, though you cannot know all the factors so it leaves a part of uncertainty. It is best to fill in this part with trust that everything will be okay.

Marijuana does not have such a deep impact acutely but unlike mushrooms it can be psychologically addictive and it has been for me for years (I quit about 2-3 years ago). It made me lazy and altered the way I thought (made it more fuzzy, neutralized things as well in a bad way). Ultimately it was the mental fog that made me stop because I was fed up with it. When taken in moderation there is not much of a problem at all with marijuana.

My friend needs to read this post, thanks for your input man, greatly appreciated =D
 
Yes tripping can push people over the edge

Not many tho. I remember when mushrooms were legal in the UK for a couple of years - their use exploded. I can't remember a single case of anyone harming themselves or having any problem.
 
I do know of precipitated psychosis and that sort of thing but every incident I know of involved either predisposition, with signals that should tell people to back off, or problems with set & setting or combo's. Sometimes when a person is bouncing off the wall too hard with ideas and wild connections and theories, this can produce something (hypo)manic clouding judgement... some can become convinced that psychedelics will help them uncover these truths even when they seem to be losing touch with reality. It happens. But no, certainly not with many. Definitely agreed.

But this also means to me that when you take a long hard look at yourself and your situation you should be able to see enough signs to tell you whether it's right for you or not. Otherwise look more closely, and deeper.

The (hypo)mania can be on one end of the spectrum, escalating and/or disinhibiting your thoughts and behavior. On the other hand you can become consumed by doubt and fear, which can be paralyzing and produce defense mechanisms. I am talking about mindsets independent of psychedelic use. Neither of those states are desirable of course. If you can find yourself healthily in between I'd say proceed. Always with care, that's for sure...

Maybe the above sounds rather serious, it is not a decision to take lightly. But I also didn't mean that psychedelics are as much of a wildcard either. I once was afraid of that, especially with LSD. But after trying it, I laughed at that. Sure it can be intense, especially if you dose really high. But before that there is quite a range that is comfortable and magical and very doable to integrate as an experience.

Give it some good thought and time, decide, mind the set & setting, don't stress over it too much, let it go and embrace it once you get to know it with a well-planned beautiful introduction.
 
Just to clear things up, im not trying to convince him out of a 100% no answer, he keeps flip-flopping on whether or not he wants to do it. Im just trying to sway him from a 51% no/49% yes to a 51% yes/49% no (at least). And the only reason he would want to shroom or not seems to depend on how many people are doing it (if everyone else is doing it he wants to, if 4-5 people are doing it he says screw that).

so really, what he wants is to be part of the flock and do whatever the majority does? or do you really belive in peer pressure, convincing him to try stuff he isnt really looking for?
im sorry it just seems a bit silly to me.

if he really was interested in psychedelics he would be informing himself, and looking for information that he wants. it wouldnt matter how many people do it, nor how popular it is.

think about parachuting. you hear about it, it interestes you, you think it might be fun. you read up on it, ask friends who tried it, maybe go to classes before you decide to take the plunge and jump. you pick your own parachute, you pack your own bag, you pick your landing site, the hight from which you jump.
would you really stay on the ground and count the number of people also parachuting? would it matter that jumping off airplanes is illegal in some countries? would you trust someone else packing your chute?

im just saying, some things are better left discovered on their own.
 
so really, what he wants is to be part of the flock and do whatever the majority does?

Yes.

if he really was interested in psychedelics he would be informing himself, and looking for information that he wants. it wouldnt matter how many people do it, nor how popular it is.

He tried salvia for the first time relatively recently, and he didnt even know what it was, his friend just said "here, take a big hit of this" and he did it. So, hes not one to research drugs before he tries them.

think about parachuting. you hear about it, it interestes you, you think it might be fun. you read up on it, ask friends who tried it, maybe go to classes before you decide to take the plunge and jump. you pick your own parachute, you pack your own bag, you pick your landing site, the hight from which you jump.
would you really stay on the ground and count the number of people also parachuting? would it matter that jumping off airplanes is illegal in some countries? would you trust someone else packing your chute?

Funny you should say that, I was actually going to go skydiving for my 18th birthday, and I asked him if he wanted to go. He asked me whos going, and i told him me and two of our friends. His response was "oh, nevermind then, if its just you guys." So, I know it seems silly, but hes really... fickle like that.

But I definitely see where youre coming from, If he were more like you and I, and actually did a bit of research before trying something new to help make an informed decision, then the situation would be TOTALLY different. But hes not, so im just trying to get the research to him.
 
I think all the answers in this thread thus far are really good, but i'll add a little myself anyway :)

1. Do mushrooms have any long-term effects? If so, what are they, and why are they bad/good?

There don't seem to be any long-term physiological effects. Frequent use could result in one becoming a spaced-out hippie. With responsible use, the possibility of harm is practically nil

2. Do the benefits of the trip outweigh any negative side-effects that may or may not come with it?

The most common physical side effect is nausea/vomiting. This is usually relatively short lived though. Psychologically speaking, paranoia & confusion do occur from time to time. Is this worth it? depends on who you ask.

3. Why do you think shrooms are illegal?

In the U.S. they are illegal because President Nixon needed every excuse possible to delegitimize & persecute the anti-war movement. They have remained illegal due to the nature of bureaucracy & politics.

4. Is marijuana more or less harmful to you than shrooms?

It would be extremely difficult to kill yourself with either. Smoking, as mentioned previously, is the main issue with cannabis. Psilocin is only toxic in extremely high doses. The LD50 in rats is something like 280mg/kg intravenously. This would translate into a human i.v. dosage of something like 3 grams (of 4-HO-DMT, not shrooms). Given that a strong dose of psilocin is 30mg, i think its safe to say no one is going to make an error of a factor of 100. Also, if you're clever enough to end up with 3g of pure psilocin, you're probably clever enough not to inject it all at once ;)

5. He seems really convinced that this is true, so do shrooms really make your brain stem bleed?

LOL, nope. I've heard some people say the same thing about acid & a few other hallucinogens. Its patently & demonstrably false. Also, when i've inquired about the source of this information, the answer is almost invariably "some dude." I'm unsure as to why people tend to believe such things so strongly... cognitive dissonance i suppose.

While i'm not all for convincing others to take psychedelics, i am all for spreading accurate information. So when you talk to your friend don't go proselytizing for shrooms, just give him accurate, independently verifiable information.

Erowid.org & MAPS.org are both good resources as well
 
Hello, great questions!

First of all I will say that I was once in the same position as your friend. I was definitely against drug use especially psychedelics. I viewed them as the 'biggest and baddest drugs out there'


1). I almost consider myself an advocate of mushrooms nowadays, not just for recreational use but for medical use aswell. Mushrooms definitely have POSITIVE long term effects. I was in a deep depression my sophomore year of highschool when a friend offered shrooms to me. Having lost faith in everything in my life (a bit dramatic lol) I accepted. Before this I hadn't even smoked weed for my first time yet. On my first shroom trip my eyes were opened to a whole new light. I realized what life was all about and how easy it was for someone to be happy. I still look at that very first shroom trip as the best night of my life. The next day my life was filled with joy and I was never depressed after that. I can confidently say that shrooms pulled me out of my depression.

2). The benefits absolutely outway the negative side effects. The only negative side effects I can think of is that I have a hard time falling asleep after tripping, but usually weed can fix that. Other than that, a bad trip, which is easily avoidable. Be in a comfortable setting with people you are comfortable with and you will have a GREAT time!

3). This may sound bad but shrooms are illegal because the government is fucking stupid! They have invested too much into this 'War on Drugs' that they cant possibly say "screw it, drugs are now legal!" Also they use VERY RARE occurences as backup as to why shrooms are illegal (one guy murdered a friend while on shrooms). Although that is VERY FUCKED UP, my response to that is: A guy with severe mental issues shouldnt have taken shrooms.. But of course single occurences such as that is enough for the government to say a substance is evil. (Even though cigs kill 435,000 a YEAR).

4). I would say they both equally harmless. It is possible to take too many shrooms and get food poisoning though. But you need to take a lot of fucking shrooms in order to do that haha.

5). ABSOLUTELY FALSE. PROPOGANDA. Now I'm not saying any drug is good for you, they ALL have negative effects on your body legal or illegal. But that is not true at all.


Mushrooms is a spiritual journey with yourself, its truly an amzing experience. This may be a bit extreme but I can say that mushrooms saved my life. It was the first drug I ever tried besides alcohol and I am so thankful I agreed to taking them. I will always consider my first shroom trip the best night of my life... And that was 4 years ago haha

Side note: Im a 3.4 GPA college student with a job at a prestigious law enforcement school. In case he thinks that shrooms turn you into a junkie or anything haha!
 
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The only long term effects I've personally experienced are enhanced sense of spirituality and a realization that the meaning of my existence is to love and to be loved.
 
Your friend is just another one of those idiot follower sheep that makes me want to face palm lol.
 
1. Never read about a bad long term effect. Everybody I know that has done them says they change their life in a good way.

2. Of course. If you don't want nausea don't eat for a while before the shrooms. Besides that I'll trade 10 minutes of nausea for 6 hours of a spiritual adventure through the world

3. Too much fun, if everyone know this world would be too peaceful with less problems and we don't want that now do we.

4. More

5. /facepalm
 
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