Methamphetmine's diuretic properties

[tyrael]

So I was wondering if someone could explain the cause of methamphetamines being a diuretic.

I would have thought that being a sympathomimetic drug (release of nor-ephedrine amongst others), which in turn would affect the glomerulus (in the nephrons of the kidneys) by causing constriction of the arterioles, a decreased
GFR (glomerulus filtration rate) and hence keeping blood volume levels up. Instead of causing polyuria.

Also (if this is still the case) could extended meth use cause ATN or does it not affect the kidneys to that extent?

 

[tyrael]

Hmm, so there's obviously something else going on here. Maybe something to do with ADH/AVH?

 

[headdah]

pretty sure this post should belong to advanced drugs discussion or so YO

 

[hooksy01]

could have something to do with the ten beers you drink when your on the stuff lol, nah, maybe stimulants in general make you piss coz they speed up your system

 

[tyrael]

Err yeah mods feel free to move it! Posted in ADD by habit. >_<

 

[tyrael]

could have something to do with the ten beers you drink when your on the stuff lol, nah, maybe stimulants in general make you piss coz they speed up your system

Haha sorry, not good enough answer. I want the pharmacodynamic/physiological cause. :D

 

[hooksy01]

lol what, meth makes you piss isnt good enough?

 

[tyrael]

No, no, the answer! Although needing to go the toilet is an annoyance! >_<

 

[hooksy01]

haha it can be, worse if your female though, or if your stuck down the street with no public toilets anywhere, i once payed twenty bucks to walk into a club just to use there toilet. almost wet my pants!

 

[Mr Blonde]

Mechanism of the diuretic action of D-amphetamine

It's theorized to be due to decreased aldosterone secretion. Aldosterone acts in the kidneys to increase reuptake of sodium and water; decreasing the levels of this hormone therefore leads to increased excretion of sodium and water.

Tyrael: That is some good knowledge of pharmacology and physiology you have there; I love pharmacology as well and am teaching myself through textbooks and talking with people who work in the field. I think the human body and the way we can alter it's functions with substances is amazing, and I am planning on getting myself deep into the field.

 

[tyrael]

Mechanism of the diuretic action of D-amphetamine

Thanks for the link.

Tyrael: That is some good knowledge of pharmacology and physiology you have there; I love pharmacology as well and am teaching myself through textbooks and talking with people who work in the field. I think the human body and the way we can alter it's functions with substances is amazing, and I am planning on getting myself deep into the field.

Exactly what I'm doing! Sounds like you and I would get along quite well!

 

[headdah]

haha it can be, worse if your female though, or if your stuck down the street with no public toilets anywhere, i once payed twenty bucks to walk into a club just to use there toilet. almost wet my pants!

paid 20$ to go pee... whats wrong with going down a side alley ?????

 

[tyrael]

Ok so I'm assuming this only applies to D-amphet - most/all street methamphet would be a racemic mixture, to varying degrees, of both L and D.

It mentions glucocorticoid so I guess adrenal function also plays a part in the natriuresis.

Finally, would this mean that there would be elevated K+ levels? Seeing as generally if Na- goes one way K+ goes the other (although this is just weakly correlated right? There is no solubility constant for K+/Na-?) If so, could these levels then get toxic?

 

[hooksy01]

paid 20$ to go pee... whats wrong with going down a side alley ?????

haha yeah tried that. started walking down a side alley with a mate and hear "OI! ya not gonna piss down the alley!" turn around and its a fucking security guard lol, i was like

 

[Mr Blonde]

For simplicity of discussion, lets assume it only applies to the more potent and psychoactive dextro enantiomer of amphetamine and methamphetamine.

Aldosterone is a steroid hormone that's produced by the adrenal glands; the study mentions that patients with defective adrenal glands taking glucocorticoids did not excrete extra Na+ due to d-amphetamine administration, probably because the effects of the steroids they were being treated with were enough to over-ride the decrease in aldosterone excretion.

As for K+, this means that yes there is less of the ion being excreted via the urine and instead being retained in the kidneys, then I assume going through tubular reabsorbtion and distributing through the body again.

High levels of K+ can be toxic, but I don't think the levels of aldosterone are being suppressed here enough to cause hyperkalemia. An example of a disease that involves these steroid hormones is Addison's Disease. During an Addison's crisis, when steroid levels have been down way too long and there has not been treatment, hyperkalemia can be a result.

If you haven't already you should look up the Na+/K+ pump; it's very interesting bio-chem and is the mechanism through which aldosterone works to retain Na+ and water and is also how cells create their resting potential.

Ok so I'm assuming this only applies to D-amphet - most/all street methamphet would be a racemic mixture, to varying degrees, of both L and D.

It mentions glucocorticoid so I guess adrenal function also plays a part in the natriuresis.

Finally, would this mean that there would be elevated K+ levels? Seeing as generally if Na- goes one way K+ goes the other (although this is just weakly correlated right? There is no solubility constant for K+/Na-?) If so, could these levels then get toxic?

 

[footscrazy]

haha it can be, worse if your female though, or if your stuck down the street with no public toilets anywhere, i once payed twenty bucks to walk into a club just to use there toilet. almost wet my pants!

Pff girl, by the time I was 16 me or one of my girlfriends had a roll of toiletpaper in our bags. I'm not scared to go down an alley, or maybe I just have no shame

As far as the diuretic effect, I always understood it was a by product of the 'flight or fight' response meth kicks in. Not only does this cause your body to expel any food you have inside, (either upwards or downwards :/) it directs blood/water flow to your muscles and internal organs. This is the reason you'll often get so cold on ice, because it directs all blood/nutrient flow to you muscles and essential organs, and away from your skin.

The other thing is, there's an essential blood/sugar level that must be kept in check in your body. If you're not taking the required electrolytes (salts) which is common from not eating, water cannot be held in your blood, so is just flushed out.

 

[hooksy01]

Pff girl, by the time I was 16 me or one of my girlfriends had a roll of toiletpaper in our bags. I'm not scared to go down an alley, or maybe I just have no shame .

lol you girls are all class

 

[tyrael]

Mr_Blonde, I am aware of 3Na+/2K+ pumps, I had thought of that! Cheers.

As far as the diuretic effect, I always understood it was a by product of the 'flight or fight' response.

Yeah that's the impression I was understand, footscrazy, what I was really after was the actual physiology/patho action the body goes through. Me being anal about these things, just to say "the FFF effect" is the cause doesn't do it for me

 

[tyrael]

it directs blood/water flow to your muscles and internal organs. This is the reason you'll often get so cold on ice, because it directs all blood/nutrient flow to you muscles and essential organs, and away from your

This is not entirely true. During FF(F) only certain organs are blood drawn to/activated - the digestive system bot being one of them.


I'm away on holidays (on my iPhone ATM) so can exactly give an extensive explanation of the physiology of flight or fight. Maybe M_B could indulde?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Yeah that's the impression I was understand, footscrazy, what I was really after was the actual physiology/patho action the body goes through. Me being anal about these things, just to say "the FFF effect" is the cause doesn't do it for me

I'm the same, I always like to know the fundamental mechanisms behind something.

Also something that relates to this that you might find interesting is the function of the nephrons of the kidney and how sodium and water are reabsorbed whilst potassium and chlorine are excreted; I've just started reading about this and how diuretics work to increase sodium excretion. There is a really cool diagram in the book that I might try and find online to post up.

Regarding the fight-or-flight response; in general the digestive tract is slowed down during the release of catecholamines, I assume because blood flow is re-directed from it to skeletal muscle and vital organs. Apart from that there isn't much effect on urine output or sodium and potassium excretion as far as I'm aware.