Is Re-Dosing bad for you?

[Thizz Man]

I read in the thread about Sexual Dysfunction and long term use that one shouldn't re-dose, first of all am I correct to think that re-dosing means taking more when your about to come down?

Is this bad for you? Should it be avoided?

 

[TearItDown]

Post credible sources or stop spreading myths.

 

[somedud]

He asked a question, he didn't make a statement, read before you arrogantly post.

 

[Thizz Man]

Thank you. It appears my brilliance has not been reduced, then.

Actually, researchers have had a hard time nailing down real cognitive changes in former MDMA users. Most results show reduced ability to recall words after a period of delay. Others show an increase in impulsivity or novelty-seeking behavior. In most cases, the studies are flawed, due to things like continued use of marijuana or other drugs, which are also known to affect short-term memory. A recent study was designed to exclude those who took X while at a rave, those who used other drugs, and those who had a family history of mental illness. After controlling for all of these 'confounding factors' researchers claimed that no lasting cognitive difference could be established.

This is not a surprise to me, because other types of brain damage in the frontal lobes, often do not have any effect on IQ. However, these people often have mood disorders, such as anxiety...severe depression...decreased libido...increased libido, to name a few.

What do I think?
I think that this area of the brain is used to assign meaning to what the rest of the brain perceives. When you have a 'gut feeling' it is coming from this area. Your visceral self is connected to your intelligence through this network. Without this visceral connection, jacking off or taking a shit offers no 'meaning'. Seeing a naked woman, offers no 'meaning'. The shape of her breasts, her armpits, her waist-to-hip ratio, the smile on her face....all critical data for instant analysis by the male brain....meaningless without this network. Make sense?

The incredible part is this visceral connection is run by the intestines. Your gut literally provides meaning to the brain. It is this intertwining of the physical with the mental that makes life real. I have come to believe that the soul, if it exists, lies within this network.

That's why rolling is so awesome, right? Your tactile sensation is heightened to the point that you want to weep for joy. Am I wrong? Sex, along with other visceral activities, has a much greater impact on the emotional centers of the brain, especially the reward pathways.

By the way, Dr. Ricaurte has many published studies. It was a follow-up study that you are discrediting, not his original. In this follow-up, he claimed to have evidence that MDMA could cause damage to dopamine receptors, increasing the risk of Parkinson's disease. It was discovered, to his shame, that he injected extremely high doses of meth, not MDMA, to achieve these results. Unfortunately, this discredited him and allowed many people, including yourself, to ignore his first study.

His first study very clearly demonstrated that long-lasting alterations in seretonin pathways do occur in several regions of the brain. Even after seven years. Regardless of how troubling this data is to members of BL, this first study was good science.
Here is the link to 'the study'.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/19/12/5096.long
Scroll down and check out the photos.

Is this the end all? No. There is a wealth of scientific data available, if you care to read it.

Consider the dose Ricaurte chose. He gave these monkeys the equivalent of 3-4 good size tabs (according to the mg's tested on my pills) per day, for 4 days! He gave each dose all at once and by injection. He wanted to make sure to induce highly toxic effects. You wouldn't spend millions of dollars and seven years of work to 'maybe' find evidence. Scientists use known toxic doses to ensure that they can study the effects.

Although some users are crazy enough to do 4 tabs, 4 days in a row....most are not. I separated my dose by seven days, but I still got fucked up. Honestly, I suspect the last half-tab I did contributed the most damage. It appears that re-dosing introduces ever higher quantities of toxic metabolites into the bloodstream. Do not re-dose, boys and girls!!

In humans, we can't cut your brain into thin slices and stain the receptors for photographing....at least not until you die. So the methods we have for measuring this network is limited. They look for proteins on SERT binding sites, and they have found evidence for some recovery. After about a year, cortical SERT binding appears to approach control levels. To me, that means that the intestines have mostly rewired themselves into the brain.

I doubt that the re-wiring is of equal quality to what was there before. But the constant gnawing of your endocrine system, which is driving the re-wiring process, probably tapers off around this time. Hence the reports of recovery by these ex users. If you constantly had stress hormones coursing through your system, you wouldn't have great short-term memory either. Imagine that a loved one died. On the days following this, would you perform well on such tests? Of course not.

My biggest questions for them revolve around their 'visceral' perceptions of life. Fuck word recall.
Do you climax as hard as you used to? How about digestion and shitting? Does a nice ass still turn you on? Does a great song still give you chills when you hear the best part? These are visceral questions.

Most of the ex-users I have found talk about being 'ok'. Well, that's not fucking specific enough for me. What does 'ok' mean?

As for your change in medication, somedud, careful coming off that SSRI. Taper it off, do NOT go cold-turkey. Also, SSRI could cause sex problems all on its own. And be aware that many SSRIs take months to take effect, and wear off. Could your concussion have contributed to your problem? Sure. The seretonin network is so complex that a multi-billion dollar industry exists to study it and produce medications. There are so many factors involved that it is hard to know for sure. I personally believe that the contents of my intestines at the time I freaked out played a major role in my toxicity. If only I had starved myself...

Anyways, a concussion likely caused a change a blood flow to a region of the brain, which is a possible contributor. If that area of the brain was not receiving adequate amounts of anti-oxidants or enzymes to break down the toxic metabolites....sure it could have worsened the problem. My instinct tells me that you would have had trouble anyways, bro.

Neuroreplete looks ok to me, but don't expect it to help too much. First of all, tyrosine and 5-htp have been reported by many others to increase their feelings of anxiety! I have tried 5-htp and I agree that it is difficult to assimilate.

I do not think the brain needs more of the amino acids in the diet, not if you are eating properly. It is not a lack of the raw materials that is causing our problems, it is a physical and electrical deformity in our brain-gut circuitry. Just because you are throwing more tryptophan into your intestines, does not mean the brain will automatically make the new connections it needs to. In fact, increases of seretonin in the brain are the primary cause of the mind-bending anxiety you feel. That's why smoking weed is very troublesome for most of us - it increases seretonin in the brain. So do carbohydrates in your diet. Eventually, enough receptors will pop up to receive this extra seretonin. The key here, is time.

What do I take? I take a multi-vitamin every day. I take small doses of liquid B vitamin drops daily (the pills are too much some days). I take fish oil three or four times per day! Fish oil improves the mylenation around nerve cells, like a lubricant of sorts. It potentiates the electrical charge traveling between nerves. I take Vit C with every meal. And remember, your brain is experiencing increased regional blood flow, so inflammation is a concern. Take 2 ibuprofen everyday, along with all the theanine and tumeric that you want. These will all fight inflammation.

But, above all the rest, Piracetam is the king. Not one of the supplements above causes the drastic change in mood that this one does. And it takes less than half a pill per day. Other people on this medication take up to ten times the dose I do. This suggests that Piracetam is THE medication for this type of damage. It claims to work by altering the permeability of cellular membranes. I imagine that my seretonin cells in my brain are trying to drill their way into new brain matter. A crude analogy for axonal resprouting, but it works for me. When you make these cells easier to penetrate, the process requires a lot less endochrine response to achieve the same amount of 'drilling'. Instead of a constant mind-bending effect, it now feels like something is just tickling my brain all day. And it also makes my intestines work a LOT better. Remember, they are the primary purpose for this network, and they drive the whole process.

Be ready to be shocked if you try Piracetam. Higher doses actually cause anxiety for me. I stick to quarter-pill doses. I cycle on and off the medication. The first two days going back on this drug are quite amazing. It feels a lot like rolling. No joke. It will teach you that seretonin, and not MDMA, is responsible for the 'magic'. It is not unusual for me to cry tears of joy when it hits my lower intestinal tract. Just be aware that no matter how normal it makes you feel, you are not fixed overnight. After a few days you get used to the change and you just feel ok. For this reason, I see value in going on and off this medication every few weeks. I always take my piracetam with fish oil - they work together.

Piracetam also makes me want to read and write. It is partially responsible for my desire to unload on these postings today. Yes, I was a very smart guy before this happened, but Piracetam motivates me to let it pour out onto the page.

I have spent a few months researching MDMA toxicity, and I have considered writing a summary of what I have learned for others to benefit from. I believe I have a unique ability to translate complicated technical information into plain-english. Perhaps I should start my own thread...

I hope this helps. Do not lose patience. When in doubt, find postings about people that take years to recover. It always makes me feel better when others have it worse than me and still claim that they are ok down the line. Even if its way down the line...

This guys from Bluelight and he says he's done over 4 months of research

 

[TearItDown]

He asked a question, he didn't make a statement, read before you arrogantly post.

However he started off with wild claims without any sort of background information. try again, douchebag.

Reading over that long post now, but I can say that 4 months of research is not nearly enough time to come up with a good answer/good results.

 

[somedud]

I thought you were referring to doubling dosing in one sitting, not double dosing within days of a previous dose. No exact studies need to be posted to assure the assumption that yes, re-dosing and/or double dosing in one sitting is much worse than a single dose. Evidently, it is proclaimed that many of the studies used not only proven neurotoxic doses, but used them in equal intervals of injections, multiple days in a row to accurately access it's potency as a neurotoxic chemical. Plus, why would a government study be conducted using "their" money to get so-so in conclusive results? That's key thing to keep in mind, as one of the original studies by Dr, Ricucarte was discredited for validity, and improper use of meth instead of MDMA. (see ecstasy rising vid-)

Now, rationally speaking, not many are silly enough to roll consecutive days in a row, and even if you DID I doubt you would use the dosing found in many studies, and yet again, IF you did, needless to say I doubt you injected it, entitling that your stomach, liver and kidneys all had an accurate blow at the chemical before it wreaked havoc upon your brain.

So yes, logically speaking, redosing or rolling days in a roll is "more" dangerous, clearly because theres more active neurotoxic metabolites circulating through your brain, with less time to heal from free-radical damage, and less time to replenish reserves of proper antioxidants, as well as proper amount of serotonin, leading to the "iffy" theory of dopamine being absorbed by your serotonin receptors leading to their destruction.

Hope that answers your question.. I'm pretty sure I hit most of the points involved.

 

[somedud]

How can you ask a question without stating the means of the question, "douchebag".

That's like me saying, "I heard MDMA is neurotoxic by my friend, is that true?"
Its simply a question, not a statement, nor a myth. At most you could credit it as a "questionable myth/statement" at MOST.

However he started off with wild claims without any sort of background information. try again, douchebag.

Reading over that long post now, but I can say that 4 months of research is not nearly enough time to come up with a good answer/good results.

 

[severely etarded]

How can you ask a question without stating the means of the question, "douchebag".

That's like me saying, "I heard MDMA is neurotoxic by my friend, is that true?"
Its simply a question, not a statement, nor a myth. At most you could credit it as a "questionable myth/statement" at MOST.

some people are assholes man

You hit the nail on the the head though with your last two posts. Thank you!

 

[Pans-Advocate]

The short answer to the easy question is, yeah, it's worse for you to eat more MDMA while you're coming down. I mean, that should be self-explanatory. You're increasing the amount of a potentially neurotoxic chemical in your brain, it's not like it's going to improve your neurochemical balance if you do that.

This should be obvious. It's an increased risk factor for the neurotoxic side effects of MDMA.

The real question is, how MUCH worse for you is it? Honestly, the research on that isn't far enough along to provide concrete statistics on how much worse it is for you to redose when you're coming down. But the anecdotal evidence out there that I've seen has led me to personally believe that it's actually pretty fucking bad for you and you should keep your doses within about a 3 hour window. From what I understand, once you open that window by dosing for the first time that night, you only have 2-3 hours before it closes again and you're doing yourself a disproportionately large amount of damage relative to the amount of MDMA you eat.

The key word here is "disproportionately." 100mg of MDMA is, by most accounts, not a particularly toxic dose of MDMA to eat. However, if you eat that dose twice in 5 hours (say, once at 10PM and then the same dose again at 3AM), the second one is going to cause far more problems for you neurologically than the first, because your brain will be getting hit with it after already being as stressed out as that dose could possibly make it. It's possible, though not certain, that eating all 200mg at 10PM would be less risky for you, but there's no way to know that because the research hasn't been done yet.

What it comes down to is this: your brain is not chemically set up to roll for longer than 4-5 hours. Forcing it to do so is a bad, bad idea. A much better idea would be to PLAN your roll so that you get the most out of those 4-5 hours, and let yourself come down when they're over.

 

[Thizz Man]

The short answer to the easy question is, yeah, it's worse for you to eat more MDMA while you're coming down. I mean, that should be self-explanatory. You're increasing the amount of a potentially neurotoxic chemical in your brain, it's not like it's going to improve your neurochemical balance if you do that.

This should be obvious. It's an increased risk factor for the neurotoxic side effects of MDMA.

The real question is, how MUCH worse for you is it? Honestly, the research on that isn't far enough along to provide concrete statistics on how much worse it is for you to redose when you're coming down. But the anecdotal evidence out there that I've seen has led me to personally believe that it's actually pretty fucking bad for you and you should keep your doses within about a 3 hour window. From what I understand, once you open that window by dosing for the first time that night, you only have 2-3 hours before it closes again and you're doing yourself a disproportionately large amount of damage relative to the amount of MDMA you eat.

The key word here is "disproportionately." 100mg of MDMA is, by most accounts, not a particularly toxic dose of MDMA to eat. However, if you eat that dose twice in 5 hours (say, once at 10PM and then the same dose again at 3AM), the second one is going to cause far more problems for you neurologically than the first, because your brain will be getting hit with it after already being as stressed out as that dose could possibly make it. It's possible, though not certain, that eating all 200mg at 10PM would be less risky for you, but there's no way to know that because the research hasn't been done yet.

What it comes down to is this: your brain is not chemically set up to roll for longer than 4-5 hours. Forcing it to do so is a bad, bad idea. A much better idea would be to PLAN your roll so that you get the most out of those 4-5 hours, and let yourself come down when they're over.

This is what I was looking for, I appreciate the answer. With all this in account, what's a good proper dosage to get the real deal experience? I got about a gram and haven't done it since St. Patrick's Day

 

[llama112]

From my experience with friends, they dose from 100 - 150 mg at once. I do have one friend who doses like 300 mg to start off ... and then doses again a few hours later (NOT the smartest thing to do).

I sometimes dose multiple times in a night. It is worse than dosing at once because, obviously, the more m you have, the worse it is. Just like the more frequently you do it, the worse it is. Not sure how it compares (ex. 2 pills in one night, once a month, vs one pill twice a month).

I don't know the actual stats (how much is too much, etc.) but, obviously, the more you take, the worse it is.

 

[Thizz Man]

Wait, so my ex-girlfriend telling me that her friend sometimes does a gram at a time for the full experience isn't an accurate indicator of what's needed for a prime MDMA experience?

Edit: I did about 1.6 in my first Molly experience everything was great but I could use stronger as long as the benefits outweight the detriments, I wanna find the ideal dosage for this experience and if I have to I'll save the rest for another time

 

[somedud]

Absolutey not! Thats actually horrible for you, let alone tolerance.. I've rolled balls before off 150-300 mg, on the other end of the spectrum I've done nine pills, consistently redosing every hour and can't remember a stitch of thr night, appearently I was zombiefied, and couldn't talk...

 

[somedud]

Oh yeah, point being I'd much rather the 150-300 mg trip..

 

[Thizz Man]

Oh yeah, point being I'd much rather the 150-300 mg trip..

So even .5 is too much?

 

[somedud]

Depends, how many times have you rolled and how much? It's better to enjoy the drug than let it overwhelm you, that's never fun, plus you'll look retarded haha

So even .5 is too much?

 

[Bloby]

Remember it might not be pure, .5 could really be .2 of actual mdma. If you took 1.6g your first time and "everything was great" I'm going to assume its not pure doesn't necessarily mean it isn't clean though.

 

[Thizz Man]

Remember it might not be pure, .5 could really be .2 of actual mdma. If you took 1.6g your first time and "everything was great" I'm going to assume its not pure doesn't necessarily mean it isn't clean though.

Oh geeze, I paid $100 a gram for this. I'm expecting purity at a price like that, what do I needa look for?

 

[severely etarded]

Oh geeze, I paid $100 a gram for this. I'm expecting purity at a price like that, what do I needa look for?

If you paid that much, I'm guessing you took .16, not 1.6. If you had to take $160 worth to get high...

.16 sounds about right for a dose though. If you rolled on St Patrick's day, you should typically wait until june to roll to avoid building tolerance / other negative side effects.

Although you could probably roll fine off .2 if you are relatively new to rolling. Just try to take 3 month breaks as a rule in between, even if you break the rule every now and then

 

[somedud]

some people are assholes man

You hit the nail on the the head though with your last two posts. Thank you!

Cheers.

@Op , yeah dude youd black the fuck out if you took 1.6 pure Molly. At least, you would most definately know that you over did it, especially the next day, unless you have the tolerance of a god.

And yeah +1^^^ watch yourself man, MDMA is a dance with the devil, you gotta know when to take a break.