A few reflections on "does time exist?"

[CoffeeDrinker]

Trying to ask the question of "does existence exist?" is just downright circular. You're asking if a thing is itself? That's pointless. Does existence exist? Well what is existence? It's the world as we know it, through the lense of our minds. If you accept cause and effect then you are implying that there was a world before you existed, otherwise the molecules making up your mind and body would've had to just spontaneously come together as they are. Thus existence is a thing outside of your mind. You call this imagination, but I could call it logic.

Like I said before the two positions are pretty much the same exact thing. Either it's: Time exists or: Time appears to exist. What's the difference?

What I mean by our perception of the present being an illusion or arbitrary is that we could be experiencing any aspect of time, which appears to flow to us or to make infinitessimally small quantum discontinuous "jumps", but the fact that we are only experiencing one tiny slice of spacetime at any given moment is simply a limitation of our own brains, probably evolutionarily useful because it allowed us to measure events against a standard cyclical movement (e.g. a clock, or the sunrise/sunset, or atomic decay) and get things done promptly.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Ok you take two clocks and have them continuously send data to one observer. Then you put one clock on a shuttle and fly it high in Earth's orbit, then you take the other clock and have it stationary on earth. The clock on earth records time more quickly than the clock that is farther away from the massive center of the earth and in motion.
Time isn't just relative based on appearences, like when your rushing to work in the morning vs sitting at your boring job, it's relative based on physical measurements.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Also my perspective holds that other people and things exist outside of my own mind. That's a metaphysical position that I hold that you can either accept or not. It's not provable one way or another. It's because of this that I don't fall into a solipsistic rut that renders everything void.

 

[Dedbeet]

Trying to ask the question of "does existence exist?" is just downright circular. You're asking if a thing is itself? That's pointless.

It can be fun (to me anyway) to deconstruct thought with thought... have engaged in that game often with peeps on certain nondual spiritual forums. Fun way to look at how one's own mind works, how it spins out its endless thread of dream.

Does existence exist? Well what is existence? It's the world as we know it, through the lense of our minds.

Unless we've agreed on a dictionary definition, we could pick various definitions.

Fwiw, I tend to see existence as being or presence -- something that can be here, right now that one is able to see, hear, smell, touch, taste, or feel. The past does not fit that definition, fwiw... one can only remember it, not perceive it, and such a memory constitutes a "present arising of memory", not an actual past.

If you accept cause and effect then you are implying that there was a world before you existed, otherwise the molecules making up your mind and body would've had to just spontaneously come together as they are. Thus existence is a thing outside of your mind. You call this imagination, but I could call it logic.

I accept cause/effect as one possible way to look at things. There are other ways -- for example, a wholistic, ever-changing action/reaction scenario, in which everything is constantly bouncing off/affecting everything else and you can only isolate some particular cause of some particular event artificially and locally.

Like I said before the two positions are pretty much the same exact thing. Either it's: Time exists or: Time appears to exist. What's the difference?

Look beyond the mind to your existence, right now -- it's totally available, right now, all the time.

Have you ever been back in the past, or has the past actually re-presented as current events? For anyone? No. It's a conceptual idea that fits in with other conceptual ideas. It is never an actually occurring, happening "now" thing, m'man.

What I mean by our perception of the present being an illusion or arbitrary is that we could be experiencing any aspect of time, which appears to flow to us or to make infinitessimally small quantum discontinuous "jumps", but the fact that we are only experiencing one tiny slice of spacetime at any given moment is simply a limitation of our own brains, probably evolutionarily useful because it allowed us to measure events against a standard cyclical movement (e.g. a clock, or the sunrise/sunset, or atomic decay) and get things done promptly.

What you're doing above is giving the mind license to define your reality for you. "My mind sez that my present actuality here is sort of an illusion, and there's an objective reality outside of/apart from me of which I am merely an object among millions".

Do you feel that way when you're lying quietly in the dark, kissing a significant other? Or does it all seem sort of timeless, as though the two of you were one? Does your mind get to discount that as an illusion?

 

[panic in paradise]

the universe is chaos - time is as we accept/ed it, noticed through a cycle of planetary events and light play.
the earth was discovered to be round, with observance of a geological pattern of continuance, via time.


time is only a favored way for some to make decisions, draw humanistic conclusions, use the microwave, measure what we cant, including a perception of distance from my place of body to Dedbeats, to bring order to the knowledge that from -nothing something and then anything comes.
as it does, over time.

the belief and dependence on time is numbing of our true psyche - sustaining our brain in a state of paranoia by further instilling fear of the unknown.
inducing confused displacing delirium, or a seed of.
strategically by us in war or torture, often.


in the greatest place we inhabit; infinity - our conception of time -as we- are less then a grain of sand in the sea.

what do you set your watchby?
____________________________________________
"he who controls the past, controls the future"
- W.S. Burroughs

 

[panic in paradise]

time is as we accept/ed it, noticed through a cycle of planetary events and light play.
the earth was discovered to be round, with observance of a geological pattern of continuance, via time.


time is only a favored way for some to make decisions, draw humanistic conclusions, use the microwave, measure what we cant, including a perception of distance from my place of body to Dedbeats, to bring order to the knowledge that from -nothing something and then anything comes.
as it does, over time.

the belief and dependence on time is numbing of our true psyche - sustaining our brain in a state of paranoia by further instilling fear of the unknown.
inducing confused displacing delirium, or a seed of.
strategically by us in war or torture, often.


in the greatest place we inhabit; infinity - our conception of time -as we- are less then a grain of sand in the sea.

what do you set your watchby?
____________________________________________
"he who controls the past, controls the future"
- W.S. Burroughs

 

[Dedbeet]

the universe is chaos - time is as we accept/ed it, noticed through a cycle of planetary events and light play.
the earth was discovered to be round, with observance of a geological pattern of continuance, via time.

If the universe is chaos, the one seeing it as such is in chaos (only at the moment it's seen that way, being there's only here/now and no actual separation). Have you been feeling sort of like you're in chaos inside while reading any of this stuff?

time is only a favored way for some to make decisions, draw humanistic conclusions, use the microwave, measure what we cant, including a perception of distance from my place of body to Dedbeats, to bring order to the knowledge that from -nothing something and then anything comes.
as it does, over time.

the belief and dependence on time is numbing of our true psyche - sustaining our brain in a state of paranoia by further instilling fear of the unknown.

What's strange about 'fear of the unknown', is that the unknown is the future -- which is based on the known. If I fear death I don't fear the unknown, I fear the known (e.g. I know I'm going to die someday).

The unknown can't actually be feared.

What are you scared of right now that you don't know is there, was there or ever will be there?

Peace...

 

[panic in paradise]

ahk...

hahaha i tried to snip that out in ti...

 

[Dedbeet]

ahk...

hahaha i tried to snip that out in ti...

Didn't mean to get personal with it, fwiw, only to point out that our supposedly objective observations are actually their subjective observer (subject = object), at the moment the observation arises (not all the time).

Reality is an ever-changing, flowing tapestry that includes ever-arising and dissolving thoughts -- not a fixed collection of objects existing over time.

But the subjective ego-self needs its objective universe to inhabit, or it goes bye-bye. The two are the same phenomenon, not-two. Simply seeing them clearly as the same phenomenon is the end of the self/universe separation.

 

[panic in paradise]

(-;i absolutely invest theory in this, we are ever expansive, no;-)

i, do believe a great deal with what you have said.
this thread, consists of posts, the posts consist of words compiled into phrases, which convey ideas to be conceived and perceived by the reader into personal thoughts furthered upon and shared into a still continuance of expansion.

uniquely in a way as to their own means of source.

 

[Dedbeet]

(-;i absolutely invest theory in this, we are ever expansive, no;-)

i, do believe a great deal with what you have said.

Thanks... I take that to mean resonating with the posts as you read them.

From here, true insight seen in 'someone else's' post is always the reader's own, never the other's who wrote it. Why?

Cuz this mind thinking these words, now, as they're being read, *NOW*....

is this someone else's mind, *actually*, thinking these here thoughts, as they're read on screen, right this instant, by whoever may be on BL reading them?

Or are these words/thoughts actually one with the awareness reading/thinking them?

Oneness is ever-changing, flowing, moving, fluctuating... that's why the mind can't see it... it 'sees' only static objects existing in space over time. Useful/handy, and that's the end of its 'reality' IMO.

 

[Olaf]

time for me is just another rule .

 

[sssssssssss]

Would we age slower if we lived on mars?

 

[chasing_s]

if time did not exist why is it the sky at night is dark? if there was no time then all the light that ever was would be lighting up our sky.

 

[panic in paradise]

the same-

or, if we did age any different rather, who the fuck would no any better.

 

[Dedbeet]

W-added comments on Ego death/cessation

if time did not exist why is it the sky at night is dark? if there was no time then all the light that ever was would be lighting up our sky.

You're conceiving of an idea of "no-time" above, i.e. "what I think it might be like if time didn't exist" (against a background belief in time existing).

But suppose that right here, right now, time simply does not exist, and never has? Not an idea of time not existing, but time actually not existing.

In other words, this question "Why is the sky dark at night?" came up RIGHT NOW (when it did), timelessly, as did the mental picture of a black sky and a sense of puzzlement about there being no time.

It all happened "outside of time" -- i.e. NOW, right when it happened. Nothing ever happens in the past, because any time *anything* happens, it happens in the present, now.

Try including your own thoughts and mental pictures INTO the field of consciousness and viewing them as though they were a movie playing out, instead of defining your fundamental reality to be "re-presentative" instead of actual. IMO people avoid doing this, because "actuality" bores them to tears, depresses them, makes them feel hopeless, helpless, alone and empty -- so they live in the re-presentational instead of the actual.

From here "living in/as unity / actuality" involves a shattering of illusion and ego-death (dissolution of the psyche, which is a sort of dream reality... literally, hopes and dreams... most people live in)... so all this talk is completely on the surface.

P.S. reading some posts (e.g. in the Dark Side) of people saying nothing seems real, they don't feel anything or don't "feel human", feel empty, hopeless, helpless, have no life, etc... this is ego-weakening, IME, moving toward ego-death. Needless to say, would the psyche want anything LESS than its own demise? .

IMO, ppl don't understand what "ego-death" is -- you don't lose yourself (the subject), you lose everything that *isn't* yourself (objectivity). The universe implodes into "Absolute here-now immediacy" -- with no "out there" for an "in here" (self) to contrast against. Both dissolve into dream, and the 'actual' is revealed, as such... it was there all the time. But no one wants it.

"Welcome to the desert of the real"... .

Now I'm really rambling, adding stuff merely to babble... will shut up.

 

[Dedbeet]

Reflections on you and me...

My awakening came in the darkness of a comfortable room on a comfortable rug with ear plugs in and the smell of good pot in the air. I realized, I am the most powerful being inside of me

That's an interesting mental stopping point, from here... "I am the most powerful being inside of me".

You (your body) is inside of you (awareness).

I look at my body and see it, then I look at your body and see it. Both are inside the same "looking".

I hug my arms around my body, then I hug them around you. I felt the feeling, in both cases, inside of me.

I say "How are you", and you reply "I'm good, thanks!" I heard both myself and you inside the same hearing.

Despite coming from different mouths, the thoughts "How are you?" and "I'm good, thanks!" arose inside the same mind.

I smell my body odor and then smell yours. Both arose inside the same smelling.

Aside from seeming to hang around all the time, while yours may come and go, there is no difference between my body and yours (purely on the basis of awareness/perception).

If I am awareness, and both of us arise inside it (perceptually) in the same way, mostly identically -- then I'm me, and you're me.

Until we argue, and the psyche/self enters the equation.

Later I move closer to you, to love you again, and we fight again after that.

Because I want my own body to be me, and to stay me.

If I wasn't me, what would I be?

Everything.

Nothing.

***

If my body isn't me, what do you see, when you see me?

YOU.

What do I see, when I see you?

ME.

Peace...

 

[sssssssssss]

i dunno if this goes here, but
wouldnt it make sense if there was a black hole at the center of the universe due to an explosion, then eventually there would be a contraction back into the massive black hole

then if thats the case and the earth spins on a titlted axis, and rotates around the sun which also spins, which rotates around the galaxy and so on

it would have all those rotations and spins going on at once towards the black hole
and as mass gets closer, then wouldnt the spins become faster?
shouldnt the suns core spin the fastest? they found out the earths core spins faster than its surface
shouldnt temerature depend on the spin? as well as gravity?
if it depends on the sun then the crust would be hotter than the mantle?
this would explain how some planets are closer to the sun then they should be
it would also explain how fallen starts turn into black holes... cause they spin super fast.

the planets are tilted towards whatever the sun is rotating around
i dont see how temerature would travel through space if it doesnt have a medium of transfer

or maybe there isnt a such thing as light, its actually plasma we are sensing in lower doses that travels through space that we cannot percieve.. just like how at the botome of the ocean the heat turns the water to a gas and the bubble becomes lighter and floats against gravity towards the surface of the water..

could plasma burn at the outer layer of the sun then float through space which is what temperature radiates through as the spins of the planets attract it
can plasma radiate from our counsiousness and float to space?
maybe thats why life is so confusing, there is so much plasma but we cant detect it
maybe thats why its so random too, if we can emit it based on positive and negative feelings, or capture it.. could sway the whole universe.
maybe when you die, your brain loses its magnitism so it stops generating plasma

the solar system just doesnt make sense at all and seems to have a lot of contridictions

ahhhhh just kidding i finally found the theory! i thought i may have came up with some good questions for a second.

This post was in the astrology thread but wasn't quite workin there so we'll try it here~enki

 

[Dedbeet]

Observations on EGO now...

Thought is working overtime here, ATM... prob'ly due to using MDPV, which seems to clarify, sharpen and focus it tremendously for awhile. Mucho fun watching this stuff just wash off my fingers by itself and onto the keyboard, cuz that's what it does!

Ego is always described as a definite term, but in my experience, the more I lose, the more detached I become...more open minded..

The box I keep getting out of - scientifically..there is a limit..we cannot get out of the box we are inside..we will always be biased...

We aren't inside any box, and never have been -- that can become (more and more) clear, IME.

Because what one normally thinks of as oneself, the ego -- isn't oneself, or an ego, and never has been.

The ego is non-ego, and the personal is a movement in/as impersonal actuality.

If this is clear, the movement stops and one remains what one always was.

If ego is self-identity..then as long as perception is alive, a self will always perceive itself in relation to what it observes.

Ego is mis-identification e.g. -- "My body is myself, as though I could observe myself from the outside and have a location for myself, even though I can't observe myself from the outside and can't have one".

If/when misidentification dissolves, nothing replaces it, and no replacement is needed.

It is similar to that Neti philosophy, I am not this, I am not that, whatever is left, that is what I am.

However practically, there is always something there, in pure emptiness

Emptiness is non-identification, non-investment, non-attachment -- not absence of thought, not a sense of something missing or lacking.

Identification, investment and attachment is what produces a sense that something is missing or lacking. What you don't care for and aren't emotionally interested/invested in, you don't miss and don't lack.

infact, we go insane and cannot even recall or lose conscioussness. Hence, we only exist in relevance...therefore...only through growth and maturation..we keep learning the pattern of life..where it started from and where its heading...therefore, is it safe to assume that "death of ego" is not possible, but merely, it is a relative death?

Safe?

The nonexistent ego doesn't give a damn what's believed -- there is only a fear of loss, aloneness and death defining the imaginary personal self, and corresponding search for gain, life and companionship.

If/when self-seeking dies, the self doing the seeking dies with it -- because the self is only the desire/seeking to live, and fear/avoiding of death.

It was never alive, only wanted to live and feared not to live.

It can never die, only feared to die and desired not to die.

Its transcendence is only the peace beyond the mind/psyche.

Although, ultimate goal is to be able to survive without stimulation, perhaps, we are not this mature yet? Has anyone in history become this mature? Which drug may help with attaining this goal?

Stimulation is peace, I say .

To exist, a thing must be able to not exist -- and to not exist, it must be able to exist.

The mind is mere polar duality that ultimately cancels itself out and vanishes.

What isn't the mind, isn't dual and isn't definable except perhaps as:

"A singular, timeless flow of empty event-ing, of which thought itself is an aspect".

Peace...

 

[panic in paradise]

there is a dualistic side to stimulants as well.

i cant deny you are on a roll, with some killer points,
but slow down:-x, or you may pass many readers.
who i believe should read this, and think about it themselves.


!>I<?