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Help - I think I am GOD and thus NOTHING

rickolasnice said:
^ The parts have stopped working / they're not doing what they should be / the electrical impulses have stopped, meaning the release of chemicals have stopped..
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idk how else to say it dude. you were claiming that all we are is matter, cells, chemicals, and what-have-you. and yet, when you die all of the physical stuff is still there...
 
Except for the electrical impulses that flow through your brain causing your brain to release chemicals.. ie the "energy"..
 
thenightwatch said:
idk how else to say it dude. you were claiming that all we are is matter, cells, chemicals, and what-have-you. and yet, when you die all of the physical stuff is still there...
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No, that's ridiculous. When you die, oxygen flow throughout your body ceases, causing rapid brain damage. You physically deteriorate.
 
hm thinking about giving up here. not because i'm wrong, but because you guys seem really stubborn...

rickolasnice said:
Except for the electrical impulses that flow through your brain causing your brain to release chemicals.. ie the "energy"..
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the electrical impulse isn't a physical thing. it describes the motion of charged particles. its like the example earlier of how walking isn't a physical thing itself...

TheAppleCore said:
No, that's ridiculous. When you die, oxygen flow throughout your body ceases, causing rapid brain damage. You physically deteriorate.
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its been awhile since i brushed up on my biochemistry, but isn't the oxygen one of the mediums through which that incorporeal electrical current flows? and besides, the oxygen is still there... you pretty much are just solidifying my point in my opinion.
 
I didn't say it was a physical thing.. i said it was a necessary part of a working brain / consciousness..

The oxygen is not still there.. what do you think your heart is doing? Providing your organs with oxygen.. when your heart stops, the supply stops..
 
rickolasnice said:
I didn't say it was a physical thing.. i said it was a necessary part of a working brain / consciousness..
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it COULD be a necessary part of consciousness. you have no proof of that though. you can point out what changes biologically when a person dies, but that is in no way evidence of your theory that we are JUST matter.

The oxygen is not still there.. what do you think your heart is doing? Providing your organs with oxygen.. when your heart stops, the supply stops..
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the oxygen doesn't magically disappear. look up the first law of thermodynamics. what your saying can be compared to saying that a river disappears when the water freezes... the water is still there even though it is no longer flowing.
 
knockando said:
For You My Darling I Shall Repeat Just Once
...the experience of being the original thing and not a representation of it.
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(if youve not seen knockando's full original post please go back and do so)

Yes exactly... VERY well put, thank you. All the physical aspects are just elements of the Easy Problem, which Chalmers does away with in his definition of The Hard Problem here: http://consc.net/papers/facing.html

Its inevitable, every time one tries to discuss The Hard Problem everyone goes back continuously to The Easy Problem. The mystery is: WHY does a bunch of chemicals and electrons and energy flow (i.e., a BRAIN) have SOMETHING THAT IT FEELS LIKE TO "BE" IT??? WHERE is this subjective experience located... what is it REALLY?

We have no basis on which to understand this. Seems like something OUTSIDE of the modeling system we utilize and we may be too "close" to "what it really is" for us to EVER be able to model or understand it in scientific terms.

That's what "God" is for ;)
 
thenightwatch said:
it COULD be a necessary part of consciousness. you have no proof of that though. you can point out what changes biologically when a person dies, but that is in no way evidence of your theory that we are JUST matter.



the oxygen doesn't magically disappear. look up the first law of thermodynamics. what your saying can be compared to saying that a river disappears when the water freezes... the water is still there even though it is no longer flowing.
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Er, well yes the oxygen atoms Are there...But no longer in the form of O2. Which is the necessary form for the end of the oxidative phosphorylation chain. The chain turns O2 that is pumped to the body from lungs/heart to H2O which our body doesnt have the photosynthetic capabilities needed to resplit. Once the pumping stops the diatomic oxygen flow stops and cell death occurs.
 
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DwayneHoover said:
(if youve not seen knockando's full original post please go back and do so)

Yes exactly... VERY well put, thank you. All the physical aspects are just elements of the Easy Problem, which Chalmers does away with in his definition of The Hard Problem here: http://consc.net/papers/facing.html

Its inevitable, every time one tries to discuss The Hard Problem everyone goes back continuously to The Easy Problem. The mystery is: WHY does a bunch of chemicals and electrons and energy flow (i.e., a BRAIN) have SOMETHING THAT IT FEELS LIKE TO "BE" IT??? WHERE is this subjective experience located... what is it REALLY?

We have no basis on which to understand this. Seems like something OUTSIDE of the modeling system we utilize and we may be too "close" to "what it really is" for us to EVER be able to model or understand it in scientific terms.

That's what "God" is for ;)
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Again.. all you are saying is that we don't understand how cells, chemicals and energy equates to consciousness.. that doesn't mean they don't.
 
The mystery is unsolvable! For now...

Well what about when you die? No one here can answer that for sure, and if consciousness continues after death, then where does it exist?

For example, if you have four chairs, you can count them, change their position(ie alter consciousness), and you can take them apart to see what makes them up, but where is four? Does four exist in the chairs (the brain) or somewhere else?

This is an interesting topic to debate, but it seems like everyone thinks they know the secret to the universe and get furious when met with disagreement. The definition of being open minded is being able to entertain new ideas without accepting them as fact, then discarding them once proven false.

Anyways...
 
rickolasnice said:
Again.. all you are saying is that we don't understand how cells, chemicals and energy equates to consciousness.. that doesn't mean they don't.
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"chemicals and energy equates to consciousness" is totally vacuous hand waving and is void of specific scientific meaning.

Yes we all know there is SOME relationship between inner/subjective "experience" and matter/energy. The question currently being pondered is: WHAT EXACTLY *IS* the relationship, how/WHY does it arise, why should it exist at all, "where" does the result reside, etc.

THAT'S the mystery.

No one has been claiming we are all really ghosts or cartoons or something (not that that would have any meaning if someone were claiming such fluffery ;) )
 
All i am saying is that there is alot of evidence to suggest consciousness is just the complex workings of a brain.. where as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Do you not think it's strange that everything that has a consciousness has a brain? And even more strange the fact that the bigger the brain, the more consciousness there is?
 
rickolasnice said:
All i am saying is that there is alot of evidence to suggest consciousness is just the complex workings of a brain.. where as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Do you not think it's strange that everything that has a consciousness has a brain? And even more strange the fact that the bigger the brain, the more consciousness there is?
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your "evidence" doesn't suggest your claim whatsoever though. you just like to think it does.

no one knows for sure that a brain is required for consciousness. and the whole "bigger brain = more consciousness" thing is totally unfounded... whales probably have a brain the size of you.
 
My evidence being that if you physically alter the brain then the persons consciousness / conscious state will also change is pretty significant evidence of my theory being true.. Your only evidence is that it is not understood how this works.. Which, to be honest, isn't evidence atall.

And yeah whales have alot more, bigger muscles.. I'm talking about the size of the cerebral cortex..

The cerebral cortex is a sheet of neural tissue that is outermost to the cerebrum of the mammalian brain. It plays a key role in memory, attention, perceptual awareness, thought, language, and consciousness.
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Neocortex
It is involved in higher functions such as sensory perception, generation of motor commands, spatial reasoning, conscious thought and language.
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Archiocortex
Being part of the limbic system, it has functions related to emotions and formation of memory.
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Everything that makes up a part of a consciousness can be located in the brain..

No, we don't fully understand how.. but it very well looks like it does.

Oh and by the way.. I want to believe otherwise, i really do.. It's fckin depressin thinking like this.. Which is why I'm gonna leave this debate here.. I don't want anyone to think like this..
 
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if you adjust the settings on your TV you can make the people look purple... but that isn't evidence of the television show being a part of the TV itself...
 
Hey there. Are you still around? because I TOTALLY understand what you are talking about. I Googled the same question I ended up here at your post. I am looking for answers, a way to live this truth without being afraid of it.
 
netcrusher said:
I have had the overwhelming notion that I was GOD ( last 5 trips ) and I was playing the ultimate “Joker trick” on myself because I was all that there was and this was the only way to live (thinking I was not GOD). To be amongst all the little people in a ‘duality of life experience’ ! Nonetheless, the only way I could convince myself that I was not GOD was infact to play this horrible joke on myself. Now is there any cure for this feeling as it felt like mystic truth… that was the horrible part. It felt more real… Has anyone felt this terribly egocentric notion that they were GOD, but GOD ALONE vrs NOTHING ELSE… or nothingness and that it was in danger….. H is the only option for me now
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Study Buddhism and Hindu philosophies. This is basically what they're all about, although you can frame it as a horrible, depressing notion OR you can frame it positively.

I don't know why this realisation leads to believe H is only option for you.

Seriously, I was having similar notions on psychedelic binges that I couldn't even begin to explain until I came across Buddhist and Hindu notions. I'm a lot happier and less confused these days, I highly recommend it.
 
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