I want to start taking therapy sessions, on psychedelics

[max_]

Hi all, let me give you a little background..
im 19. i've tried plenty of substances, including daily weed. When i was 14 through 16 years old i used to cut myself and got hospitalized once for trying to kill myself. So i've had some rough patches, but i've moved on. I've never been diagnosed with a medical condition but a side of my family is full of people with chronic depression. Right now i smoke weed everyday and sometimes take a benzo because i get very anxious/down/desperate (i don't really have a word for it).
Needless to say, i've been to more than one shrink, but haven't been in a session for over 2 years. Since some of the old feelings seem to be coming back to me, i want to be able to talk about it with a professional, which has certainly helped in the past.
However, i'm not that crazy self-harming kid i was 3 years ago. I keep myself together ok.. But, you know,, i've been feeling kinda strange lately, wondering who the fuck am I? Or stuff like that.. Psychedelics helped me come to some incredible realizations about myself, about how i behave and why. Some things i hadn't even considered to be wrong in my life, stud out in some intense trips i've had and even though i made great progress, i think that somebody trained for understanding behavior would get me to achieve much deeper insights. (also it'd be great to have a doc around while taking stimulants)



Now, Has anyone done this? The first problem would be to choose and get hold of a substance that would be useful for such an end, but that's another story.. The real trouble, i think, will be to get a doctor (psychiatrist) on board for this experiment. So, if you have any opinions on how to approach him/her of how to suggest it, it'd be great if you threw some ideas..

 

[alantis360]

what if you start laughing in her face?

 

[MrFaust]

well like you said I think youre gonna have issues finding a doctor whos cool with allowing you to eat some very controlled substances with very subjective effects in their office. The only way is to go ask all the different doctors in your area, but thats kinda obvious...

 

[max_]

what if you start laughing in her face?

Well, this would have to be a pre-arranged thing. I mean, this therapist would have to know what drugs am I in, their nature and effects. In fact i was thinking that if i ever go through with this, and the chosen drugs(s) are extreme vasoconstrictors (such as phens or MDxx), the psychiatrist could keep track of my heart rate and blood pressure during the session, or even after we're done. Also he'd probably have to keep a diazepam IV at hand..

besides,, i've burst into tears in the face of my shrink.. And im not the only one.. it would probably be pleasent for him/her to have someone laugh..


edit:

well like you said I think youre gonna have issues finding a doctor whos cool with allowing you to eat some very controlled substances with very subjective effects in their office.

Finding the right therapist is already a challenge,, finding the right one, who also agrees to analyze a totally tripped out dude, its gonna be almost impossible..

 

[lilczey]

awesome idea

 

[max_]

why not ? I mean, psychedelics have shown me some insights about myself that i'd never even thought of.. And so have therapy sessions..
In fact, there's been kind off a hassle about an MDMA study on women who had been raped..

Over several months, each will receive 17 sessions of counselling with a therapist; before two sessions they will swallow a capsule containing either a placebo or 125mg of MDMA - about the same as or a little more than the amount found in a typical ecstasy tablet. The trial will be double-blind, meaning that neither the patients nor the investigators will know who has taken the drug. If the one-year pilot study proves a success, Mr Doblin says further research will follow

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/24/mentalhealth.drugs


PD: ego death means nothing to you people? haven't you ever felt like spilling your guts out saying nothing but true?? haven't you ever spoken absolute truth to a dog/person/tree whatever/whoever was "listening" at the time??

 

[alantis360]

Well, this would have to be a pre-arranged thing. I mean, this therapist would have to know what drugs am I in, their nature and effects. In fact i was thinking that if i ever go through with this, and the chosen drugs(s) are extreme vasoconstrictors (such as phens or MDxx), the psychiatrist could keep track of my heart rate and blood pressure during the session, or even after we're done. Also he'd probably have to keep a diazepam IV at hand..

besides,, i've burst into tears in the face of my shrink.. And im not the only one.. it would probably be pleasent for him/her to have someone laugh..

I see, well if it was a prearranged thing I bet it could be very useful.

 

[SKL]

Not going to happen, sadly.

Underground therapists, some lay, some variously trained, do exist who work with psychedelics, but for obvious reasons, they are, well, underground ... you might be able to find one if you look in the right places, but it won't be easy.

No mainstream doctor or therapist is going to risk their license, reputation, and career doing this. It simply will not happen.

 

[max_]

Not going to happen, sadly.

Underground therapists, some lay, some variously trained, do exist who work with psychedelics, but for obvious reasons, they are, well, underground ... you might be able to find one if you look in the right places, but it won't be easy.

No mainstream doctor or therapist is going to risk their license, reputation, and career doing this. It simply will not happen.

Well i was thinking of going back to some of my old therapists and ask them to do it.. I mean, if anything happened to me they could argue that they didn't know i was high. I would also like to go back to people i know for if not i would have to take a few months of "pre-therapy" without the drugs for a new doc to get to know me,, and besides i don't wanna go around town telling every shrink that im on psychedelics.. they might as well team up and get me locked up..

 

[SKL]

^ Dude, no therapist is going to be down for this who is not in the underground. Asking about it will probably only create trouble. Now, I encourage you to be open & honest with your therapists and doctors re: your drug use, but asking for this is a non-starter.

 

[max_]

@somekindalove
thanks, i know i should be honest with them, there'd be no point on going if i wasn't,, The thing is i haven't been to therapy in years and now i want to go back. And one of the main reasons i want to go back, is because i've also went back to using psychedelics (i had a pretty dry 2010) and things came up that left me head over hills. I mean stuff about me that nobody even realizes is there. Some really deep shit that goes back even into my earliest childhood and now (at age 19) for the first and only time i was able to see the problem. And all thanks to my old friend lucy combined with 2c-e..
I will certainly go back to therapy, but i won't start off with that approach, maybe it would be a good idea to build up a relationship and if the person seems open minded i may suggest psychedelics. Or if he/she doesn't accept, maybe i could try some sessions with very low doses without telling.. of course this might get very uncomfortable but i'll obviously use VERY low doses. Maybe tripping the day before or going to the appointment while on the comedown..
In fact, i've been to therapy sessions the day after dosing with lsd and it was good, really good..

 

[SKL]

A transpersonal or other sort of New Agey psychotherapist or certainly someone who does something like holotropic breathwork might be more willing to discuss psychedelic-derived insights,psychedelic-mediated changes &c. I am acquainted with a few therapists who are willing to "go there" with patients, but who keep it legal, and do not do actual psychedelic psychotherapy.The diversity of kinds of practice ,and the open mindedness of practitioners,will vary greatly depending on where you are..

The idea of tripping before/after the sessions might be productive,as might talking about trips, especialy with a sufficiently open-minded therapist. But tripping during the therapy session without the therapist's knowledge, or asking the therapist to do something manifestly illegal,both are inappropriate in the therapeutic relationship and boundary transgressions that will ultimately be counterproductive.

And, yes, Rick doblin, MAPS, and others are doing research where actual psychedelic psychotherapy is going on. It is an emerging field in very limited trials only now (with the exception of the underground) .Hopefully eventually it will become more widespread,but for now it is limited to those (very exciting) few trials.

 

[Syd_Barret]

I just wanted to chime in and say how ridiculous this sounds.

I'm not speaking out against psychedelic therapy, it definitely has some uses.. but I dont think you qualify.
Are you terminally ill? Has your life really been that screwed up that you need to take mind altering substances with a trained medical professional to figure your shit out?

Or are you just looking to have some fun?

Besides, if you had a couple good friends that you could be completely hoenst with, a couple of *intelligent* friends, dropping acid with them and talking would prolly be better than a therapy session with some dude you don't even know.

anyways, I'm not trying to dog you, but you're prolly going about this the wrong way.


I'll end my own post with a quote of yours, hopefully you can read it and rethink your thinkings:

"But, you know,, i've been feeling kinda strange lately, wondering who the fuck am I? Or stuff like that.."

Yes, obviously you need a therapy session on lsd.
Comeon man.

 

[max_]

Ok, that doesn't sound right, but think about this: Yes, i am wondering who the fuck am I. I am 19 years old after all, and that doesn't matter anyway, because even when I'm 60 I'll still be asking myself the same question. As should everyone, every day.
And i feel i really need to dig out a lot of stuff, specially now that i've gotten over some stupid stupid times i had in my life. I have moved on, moved forward. And i want to make the best out of this. Psychedelics seemed to have helped an awful lot in this transition and i really think i can still squeeze a lot more juice.

 

[skillet]

Underground therapists, some lay, some variously trained, do exist who work with psychedelics, but for obvious reasons, they are, well, underground ...

Hehe, underground therapists, reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atbDP1FzP7Q

 

[max_]

going up ^^

c'mon, what do the rest of you think ??

 

[Delta-9-THC]

This is something you will have a lot of trouble getting any psychiatrist/psychologist to agree to in any fashion. They would most definitely not be the ones administering the drugs (You seem to think you would get IV MDMA or at least IV Valium if things go wrong).

As SKL said, tripping before or after a session with a great therapist who you can discuss your drug experiences with openly and whom with you would feel comfortable telling them what you did/are about to do is probably your best bet.

I actually have experience with this before and it can be helpful. I used to go to a therapist who I could talk to about anything when it comes to drugs. I have talked extensively with him about all the different trips I've had during different stages of my life and why I use these drugs.

He is an extremely cool guy and a good therapist who helped me work myself out of a depression rooted in a extreme existential crisis in which my personal beliefs and motivations in life crumbled and had to be rebuilt on solid ground. I probably could get him to consider this if I really wanted to do it but even then I think he would say no because of the distinct risk of losing his license.

That said, I have shown him detailed trip reports and notes that I have come up with from heavy trips and we have gone over them together and analyzed them and spoke about how to integrate the experiences and actually enact the positive changes I laid out for myself on the trip.

I think this is the closest you are likely to get and if you find someone this cool you should be happy. I've spoken to a lot of shitty and downright uninformed and unintelligent therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists. You just need to find a good therapist and let them get to know you and your experiences and then I would see most having little problem with this. They aren't going to explicitly say: "Yes take that drug. I endorse you taking that drug for psychiatric/psychological purposes." But it shouldn't be that hard to find one who is willing to discuss your experiences with you after the fact.

It's not quite guided psychedelic therapy but it's the closest you're likely to get and I personally found it useful.

Edit: sorry for spelling or grammatical errors above. It's early and I don't have the effort to revise what I mean to make it more clear. It may be too wordy already Either way, therapy in some form - psychedelic or not - seems like it would be good for you from what you've said.

 

[SourCream]

I dunno what you would plan to take, but the only psych I have experience with would be LSD.

But you know... how do you know at which stage of your trip your going to be ready for some kind of revelation... will you pay and have the therapist with you for the full duration? Hell I couldn't even afford that and I'm 30 with a fairly decent job. Psych's can be unpredictable and you don't know what its going to have in store for you on that trip. I guess for me all my deepest thinking and stuff happens during the kind of come down phase. Peaking with a therapist would just be a pointless endeavor.

I think it's probably an ok-ish idea, maybe it could possibly work with the right therapist in the right environment, but I think the chances of you actually pulling it off are slim to none.

I agree with the previous comment that tripping with 1 or 2 close friends and just talking about deep shit will prolly be far more therapeutic than any sessions.

Dunno... just my 2 cents.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Another real logistical problem^ Ideally one would spend the peak of the experience in a dark room alone with a sitter to call on only if absolutely necessary. Then once you are in the less chaotic and more introspective stage of your trip you would begin the guided discussion.

I have more to say on the subject particularly questions to ask you concerning whether psychedelics are really your best and most fruitful option for your therapy right now (not saying they aren't a good option at times or for some people but just straight-up therapy may be more what you need). Alas, I must go to class now but I'll return to this discussion

 

[max_]

thanks for answering.

@delta-9.
I think your approach to psychedelic therapy seems a lot more reasonable than mine. You're very lucky that you found such an open minded practitioner. Thanks for some really good advise btw. Therapy would really, really help me. I'm at a point where everything is changing and although things are going upward, a part of me feels kinda weird, at my age life can get pretty confusing,, i mean, i have to pick a career and i've already wasted a whole year of my life just sitting on my butt (began uni, then dropped out). I don't think of the whole year ass a wast anyways, there's been some important personal growth.
I will indeed start therapy.
PD: Of course i wouldn't dream of having a doctor dose me with nor psychs, nor benzos. But, again, it would definitely help to have a doc around if any ugly side effects kick in..

@Sourcream
The friends thing is kinda out of the table, not that i don't have friends, but some of the stuff that comes to mind may be a little too private to bring it up on a social environment. Also i would really like to have a person with experience, a professional. Friends are great and are always great help but they can only help up to certain point, and they can only understand to a certain point. Besides one think is to talk about it, and another very different one is to work it out and dig into those words, which are not always easy to find.
Furthermore, a psychiatrist's office would provide the exact setting i am looking for.
For answering your question, i've been thinking that LSD could be a little too forgiving for this. I thing something with a stronger "mental load"/"mindfuck" could be even better. Maybe 2c-e. Although LSD is a great drug for introverted trips, it could get too friendly/playful and just become useless (or less useful) than others.