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[NEWS] Man told to give addict mouth-to-mouth

poledriver

poledriver

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Jul 21, 2005
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11,543
A Melbourne man says he felt torn when a triple-zero operator urged him to give mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to a stranger who had overdosed on heroin.

He now thinks he made the wrong decision.

Chris Cole stopped to help when he saw a woman unconscious in a car at Healesville on January 12. Her boyfriend said she had overdosed and he couldn't wake her.

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Mr Cole called triple-zero and the operator told him to give her mouth-to-mouth.

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What would you do? Comment below
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"I said, 'Well, look, this is a drug addict, I don't want to give mouth-to-mouth for fear of contracting disease, be it HIV or hepatitis or whatever.'

"And he said, 'Well, it's essential, this is a life-and-death matter."'

Mr Cole tried to relay the operator's instructions to the boyfriend on how to perform mouth-to-mouth, but he was too distressed.

"He (the operator) said, 'Look, you'll need to do it.' And he told me how to do it. He certainly didn't mention anything about protective membrane between my mouth and hers.

"I gave her two mouth-to-mouth puffs."

A doctor from a local GP clinic, who had been alerted by Mr Cole's wife, took over treating the woman until paramedics arrived.

Mr Cole said his wife, the doctor and his own GP were horrified that he had been instructed to give the woman unprotected mouth-to-mouth.

Doctors told him to get tested immediately for HIV and Hepatitis C, and again in three months.

While he was happy that the woman recovered, Mr Cole said he would have acted differently if he had been properly informed.

"With what I know now, I obviously would have just ignored his instructions because if it was really going to be a significant risk to me and my family, well ... sorry, I would have probably then declined.

"No, I should have been instructed properly.

"My doctor says you should have been told to use your shirt or handkerchief as a barrier between yourself and her mouth. It would have been as simple as that."

Mr Cole said he went public with his story because he wanted Ambulance Victoria to instruct triple-zero operators not to tell the public to give mouth-to-mouth unprotected.

He also wanted to know what action was being taken in response to his emailed complaint.

But he had received only an acknowledgement of the complaint.

Ambulance Victoria is expected to comment later today.
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A good point. Even a t-shirt as a barrier to an addict in need of cpr is a good idea if nothing else (one way mask) is available.

here
 
What a sook. Not every heroin user swaps needles and as if he is going to get anything unless they both have poor mouth hygiene and open sores and he is raping her mouth
 
i could imagine the possibility of some hardcore addicts having major oral hygiene issues.

DRABC D is for danger to ones self, bystanders and the casualty.
 
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cunt is a sook, if you're going to stop to help someone, stop and help, don't be a fucking wanker.

I've had to save heaps of peoples lives giving mouth-to-mouth, it's not pleasant but you know you're doing the right thing.

More so mates than anything i guess, but if it was a random on the street i'd still help any way i could. As stated - it's a life or death matter. Once you get involved in a first-aid situation, you become part of that situation and that person's life is on you. You take a responsibility by acting in that situation to help - and by denying help to the patient you're actually committing a crime.

Or at least this is how the teacher in my first aid course put it infront of us.
 
I think calling him a sook is a little strong. Why is it wrong to hesitate on helping someone when you can potentially contract a disease such as HIV or Hepatitis?

I'm not trying to say every heroin addict that uses needles has these diseases, but it's by no means a guarantee. And I understand that once you get involved, it is your duty, but if your own health may be at stake, where do you draw the line?

And why couldn't the boyfriend do the mouth-to-mouth?
 
Is there any rcorded cases of lip to lip contact that ended up in transferring HIV or Hep C.
Maybe Hep A and B but I doubt the others, even accidental needlestick contamination is very rare
 
a sook? really? I doubt that... He is making a clear point in regards to the instructions he was given.

I doubt he would have made this complaint if the operator had given him the instruction to use a shirt or something as a barrier to protect against diseases. He has a very valid point.

a person who is ODing on herion might just have a disease, if they were smart drug users, they wouldnt have OD'd in the first place....? So, i consider his point very valid and his reasons for complaining justified.
 
Never recorded? Its hard enough from getting it from unprotected sex, not that i encourage fucking dirty hookers.
 
Yeah, this is hysterical bullshit. The risk of getting HIV or Hep C from mouth to mouth is miniscule. Both parties would need to have open cuts on their mouths. Possible, but highly unlikely. It's just "dirty junky" hysteria.
 
The chances of HIV may be low (you would both need open sores) but the risk of Hep C is incredibly high. Personally I am barred from working by the health board if I contract Hep C so would probably give it a big swerve on some random junkie. Harsh but true. If the Blood bank considers them such a high risk then it isn't really discrimination is it?

The last 2 CPR refresher courses I have done have both stressed the importance of compressions over breathing any way. Both instructors gave examples of people who had contracted Hep C and advised there was nothing ethically wrong with avoiding mouth to mouth and just concentrating on compressions only until an ambulance arrives, particularly if you have doubts about them. The success rate is very small performing CPR with out the aid of a defibrillator.
 
OK... A lot of you people aren't really thinking.

1: I would be cautious in this day an age giving a random person (especially a heavy heroin user) mouth to mouth. I would make a mouth piece before doing it if it was life or death though.

2: Put yourself in the position of a non-drug user. He has a point, he is not a bitch, sook etc... He is a NORMAL person, who is obviously not well educated on how you catch HIV, HEP C, etc... The majority of the community don't know it's mainly via blood.

Give him a break, and be sympathetic. After all... He did do it in the end, correct?
 
Busty St Clare said:
The chances of HIV may be low (you would both need open sores) but the risk of Hep C is incredibly high. Personally I am barred from working by the health board if I contract Hep C so would probably give it a big swerve on some random junkie. Harsh but true. If the Blood bank considers them such a high risk then it isn't really discrimination is it?
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By the same logic in places where it is against the law to be homosexual it is not discrimination to throw gay people in gaol. Just because someone has decided it is acceptable to discriminate and/or it becomes a social norm does not mean it ceases to be discrimination.

I would also point out the HUGE difference in taking donated blood and infusing it into another persons body and giving someone mouth to mouth, they are fucking worlds apart.

I think this man is right to make a complaint that the 000 operator didn't advise him to use a shirt or whatever, as this would minimise any risk that there might be, but to risk a persons life for the mild possibility of contracting a disease is shitty imho. It is also shitty to assume just because she uses heroin she might have diseases, sure a lot of heroin users might but there are plenty of people with blood borne viruses. If the woman needed mouth to mouth for another reason I am sure the possibility of them having a disease would be a non issue.
 
I think you have serious mental issues and should be detained from society if you did not at least try to save someone from death if it was possible.
 
Agree:

Busty St Clare said:
The chances of HIV may be low (you would both need open sores) but the risk of Hep C is incredibly high. Personally I am barred from working by the health board if I contract Hep C so would probably give it a big swerve on some random junkie. Harsh but true. If the Blood bank considers them such a high risk then it isn't really discrimination is it?

The last 2 CPR refresher courses I have done have both stressed the importance of compressions over breathing any way. Both instructors gave examples of people who had contracted Hep C and advised there was nothing ethically wrong with avoiding mouth to mouth and just concentrating on compressions only until an ambulance arrives, particularly if you have doubts about them. The success rate is very small performing CPR with out the aid of a defibrillator.
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Agree:

AyahuascaSeeker13 said:
OK... A lot of you people aren't really thinking.

1: I would be cautious in this day an age giving a random person (especially a heavy heroin user) mouth to mouth. I would make a mouth piece before doing it if it was life or death though.

2: Put yourself in the position of a non-drug user. He has a point, he is not a bitch, sook etc... He is a NORMAL person, who is obviously not well educated on how you catch HIV, HEP C, etc... The majority of the community don't know it's mainly via blood.

Give him a break, and be sympathetic. After all... He did do it in the end, correct?
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Disagree:

lagger said:
I think you have serious mental issues and should be detained from society if you did not at least try to save someone from death if it was possible.
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/2c
 
Some ignorant cunt said:
"I said, 'Well, look, this is a drug addict, I don't want to give mouth-to-mouth for fear of contracting disease, be it HIV or hepatitis or whatever.'
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To be honest, I kind of agree on everyones opinion on this one..

Anyway, my 2cents, what pisses me off the most is that the majority or non drug uses are ignorant to say what was said. One, just because there ODing of heroin DOESN'T make them an addict! If anything, it makes more sense that it could have been her first time (Mabey her BF was an experianced user?) and the hit was way too strong for a first timer, and: Two, NO ONE should assume a heroin (Or any drug for that matter) user has a strong possibility of having a disease, be it HIV or hepatitis or anything
 
Busty St Clare said:
The chances of HIV may be low (you would both need open sores) but the risk of Hep C is incredibly high. Personally I am barred from working by the health board if I contract Hep C so would probably give it a big swerve on some random junkie. Harsh but true. If the Blood bank considers them such a high risk then it isn't really discrimination is it?

The last 2 CPR refresher courses I have done have both stressed the importance of compressions over breathing any way. Both instructors gave examples of people who had contracted Hep C and advised there was nothing ethically wrong with avoiding mouth to mouth and just concentrating on compressions only until an ambulance arrives, particularly if you have doubts about them. The success rate is very small performing CPR with out the aid of a defibrillator.
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The risk of catching either hep c or hiv is pretty much non existant like others have said its only transmissable blood to blood. Hiv only exists in blood not saliva and is an extreemly unstable virus when outside of the blood so even if you did get the blood of a hiv infected person in your mouth it would have to enter through an open cut for you to really get infected.

Hep c although is much more transmissable and can last outsie the body for a significant period of time, althought advice to married couples where one has hep c, it is said that unprotected sex is fine, it only becomes a risk when the sex becomes rough e.g. when your red raw this can cause a blood to blood transmision.

just wiki it and you will get the answers, but yes this is just the media once again injecting fear into peoples lives.
 
pisspotnrock said:
To be honest, I kind of agree on everyones opinion on this one..

Anyway, my 2cents, what pisses me off the most is that the majority or non drug uses are ignorant to say what was said. One, just because there ODing of heroin DOESN'T make them an addict! If anything, it makes more sense that it could have been her first time (Mabey her BF was an experianced user?) and the hit was way too strong for a first timer, and: Two, NO ONE should assume a heroin (Or any drug for that matter) user has a strong possibility of having a disease, be it HIV or hepatitis or anything
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1: That sort of makes sense, but statistically most people who OD are not first-time users.

2: I agree that most users don't have HIV or hepatitis, but they are at greater risk and certainly have higher rates. Non-users, whether prejudiced or not, are bound to be wary of this. As already said, you can't expect the average person to know the frequency or modes of transmission of these diseases.




I think it would be wise not to demonise non-users in the same ignorant fashion in which they demonise users. Take the moral high ground ;)
 
In 2005 there was an estimated 9700 new cases of Hep C in Australia.... around 27 a day. Obviously it is not impossible to catch. 89% were believed to be from injection methods. Sure seeing a junkie OD'ing doesn't automatically mean they are infected but if given a choice who you would resuscitate you would have to think more than twice about certain people given statistics.

I treat more than my fair share of junkies and I can say most would have gingivitis or gum disease.... ie their gums bleed and bleed easily. Now put your hand up if you don't get any blood when you brush your own teeth (I'd say at least half of you would have some sort of bleeding) and you can see how a route of blood to blood transmission is possible giving mouth to mouth. 1% risk means nothing when you are that 1%.
 
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