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HPPD questions

mrdocat

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
125
1. Is Klonopin the most successful treatment available?
2. Will Klonopin work for everyone or are there reports of people it didn't help?
3. Are the effects immediate?
4. Will it cure HPPD forever or just while you're on it?
5. If you get rid of HPPD, will you get rid of the problems that came with it (depression, anxiety, depersonalization, cognitive issues, etc.)?
6. Will you have withdrawals from Klonopin if you use it just for the amount of time necessary to cure your HPPD?
 
Klonopin is used to treat anxiety and panic disorders. If you didn't know, it falls into the family of benzo(diazepine)s. While it may seem as though it takes the edge off of depressed feelings, in the end it may only make matters worse because it can make your feelings very flat and take away your drive to do something useful.

HPPD means hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, notice the word perception? It's about having visual effects that don't do away, it has nothing to do with mood, concentration or cognitive problems that may arise from psychedelic use, or having problems reintegrating and connecting back with reality or your own self / sense of personality.

Have you sought attention from a psychologist? You would probably do well to get it checked out more thoroughly before you go making any more incorrect selfdiagnoses with subsequent inappropriate self-medication.

Klonopin (clonazepam) can offer temporary relief from stress / anxiety / panic that is exacerbated by the problems you are having but it is not a cure or a solution to anything, it can give you a break and slow things down but that is about it. You sounded pretty high strung from the moment you started posting here so I am not saying you shouldn't take it for the time being... but the more time passes without any change the better it seems for you to seek professional help.

IIRC you said you were living in Portugal? I think that there aren't that many issues with telling your doctor that you took a psychedelic drug.
 
HPPD means hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, notice the word perception? It's about having visual effects that don't do away, it has nothing to do with mood, concentration or cognitive problems that may arise from psychedelic use, or having problems reintegrating and connecting back with reality or your own self / sense of personality

I would be a little more careful, Solipsis, about pronouncing "it has nothing to do with..." and seeming so utterly certain in your knowledge, which is apparently not as complete as you believe.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder

The visual problems of HPPD can occur along with other mental ailments. Of these, the most prominent are anxiety, panic attacks, depersonalization disorder, and depression. In the sample of Baggott and colleagues, hallucinogen users with persisting and severe visual problems were significantly more likely to report anxiety and depression diagnoses than hallucinogen users without serious visual problems. For example, 25.9% of hallucinogen users with visual problems reported current or past diagnosis of depression. While it is difficult, if not impossible, to establish a clear relationship between the visual and mental symptoms, those with HPPD often testify that a connection indeed exists. For example, anxiety can cause the visuals to become more prominent and vice-versa. Anecdotal wisdom thus maintains that there is a synergistic link between the two​

That is VERY VERY different than your absolutist "has nothing to do with" assertion. Furthermore, the list of possible visual aberrations is large, and I thought mrdocat mentioned some visual effects like trouble with bright lights, hazy vision, trouble recognizing things (himself!) in mirrors etc.

I don't feel you ought to be shooing him away from a diagnosis of HPPD when you are not a doctor and have not seen him in person nor conducted an extensive survey/interview. Dispensing serious medical advice like this based on someone's random internet postings about his condition, which may well be incomplete, is a BAD idea. So is trying to diagnose himself, btw. I know you just are trying to help, but he really needs to have this thoroughly considered by an psychiatry professional with experience in HPPD. You really ought not be telling anyone what they have is or is not definitely this or that, this is going over the line IMO, you are not a physician and this is not a doctor's office.

It IS included in the official list of medical diagnoses and syndromes, and while it is still unknown what causes it and the full range of impacts, it seems to me like hppd, or something similar, or a variation that may result from the same alterations in brain functioning (not "damage" just changes in manner of operating) COULD WELL have to do with what is wrong with him.

"HPPD is a DSM-IV diagnosis with diagnostic code 292.89"

He should be able to get more information by just googling HPPD, but it is VITAL that he not attempt to diagnose himself and start trying random treatments by illicitly obtaining powerful possibly dangerous prescription meds like those discussed.

PROFESSIONAL EXAMINATION, DIAGNOSIS, TREATMENT... ***NOT*** endless whining and chatter on the net is what he need to be doing immediately!!! He needs to find someone with expertise in HPPD and see them and be HONEST about his one use of LSD.... they will NOT get him in legal trouble, it is VERY common to experiment at his age, and ALL professionals involved will I am sure be entirely concerned ONLY with making him better. Since he is 18 and of legal age, he also need not worry about them revealing anything he does not want revealed to his parents or anyone else... I would be sure that since he is an adult, the caregivers are going to be BOUND by MEDICAL PRIVACY LAWS to keep ALL discussions and diagnoses completely confidential. He can tell his family anything he wants about why he is seeking help if he wishes to not reveal the drug use. The doctors are PROHIBITED BY LAW from telling them even if they ask and even of they are paying for the treatment. But it is probably a good idea to tell any doctor he sees of his wishes for everything to remain totally PRIVATE, and to remind them of his legal age.

AND: even if it is NOT strictly HPPD, perhaps it is something related but as yet undocumented, and surely psychiatrists/psychologists with expertise in HPPD would ALSO have expertise in other related problems, and ARE the proper place to begin.

Enough dicking around on the web, mrdocat. See a professional with EXPERIENCE in these issues pronto... NOT just your general doctor who probably has ZERO training in such matters. Good luck, sweet dreams :)
 
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For sure.

He may also want to be sure to scroll to the bottom of the above listed Wikipedia page and investigate the following, but again, I wish to emphasize DO NOT TRY TO SELF-DIAGNOSE!!! GET YOURSELF IN TO SEE A PRO!!! You might try treating yourself and just making things MUCH worse, this is a REAL danger in such situations so do NOT even THINK of trying it... it is quite alarming you are asking about Klonopin as if you may intend on getting someone from someone you know who has it... DONT DO IT! highly risky

External links

Support board and information website with updates on current research on HPPD
Newsgroup to support individuals with HPPD, some possible medications are indicated (NOT updated since 2002)
Erowid's FAQ on HPPD​
 
But there is NO doctor where I live with experience in HPPD. Not a single one. Hanging on the internet and searching is my only option. This way I can, at least, show the doctor my conclusions and some printed studies thus helping him to help me. So... please answer the questions.

Stuff about me said:
I'm working with the hypothesis I got HPPD because I did a test: asked many friends to stare a light for 10 seconds and then keep blinking until the negative was gone. They needed 10~20 seconds for the negative to go, while my negatives stayed for about 4 minutes. So my problem with lights comes from those persisting afterimages. When I realized that, many things made sense: whenever I'm on an ambient with strong lights, they tend to accumulate in my vision until there's a point the negatives cover it completely. That's why I wouldn't 'recognize' myself in the mirror, would get confused on the supermarket/subway station after coming from the beach etc. I can reproduce that effect anytime by staring at the sky for a few seconds and backing inside. My vision is then completely compromised for the next 10 minutes or so. I could reach a point of almost complete blindness indoor.

I have nothing else visual, though. No 'abnormal' statics/floaters/halos. But I'm depressed, possibly show signs of anxiety (that weird thing happening every night?). Perhaps it is just HPPD with less visuals and those cognitive issues (=\).

What leaves me with my actual dilemma. If it's HPPD, it's treatable. But I don't know if Klonopin treats the visuals or all the symptoms. If it only treats the visuals then it's not worth trying it (after consulting a doctor) because those afterimages are solved by just wearing sunglasses. But if it treats the depression/anxiety/cognition then it's worth giving a try.

BTW, Dwayne, I was thinking, and... I'm sorry. I don't think drugs/hallucinogens are bad. Just not for some people, like those too worried with their cognitive function and mental health as I was. It was just the wrong drug for me, but I can see how, for some people, hallucinogens could be very beneficent. Some drugs aren't illegal because they are bad. Just because they don't fit our society philosophy/goals. Coffee, for instance, do change our minds too, but it does it in a way that fit those goals. Perhaps that's why I liked coffee so much. I'm so into this society philosophy.
 
Benzo's will help with the anxiety, but they won't cure anything. Then we'll have 12 threads about how you are horribly addicted to benzos. Benzos would be more like an addictive band-aid than a cure. Unless a qualified doctor thinks this is the best route to take, don't go down that road. A psychiatrist is what you need, not a drug to mask the problems of another drug.
 
Benzo's will help with the anxiety, but they won't cure anything. Then we'll have 12 threads about how you are horribly addicted to benzos. Benzos would be more like an addictive band-aid than a cure. Unless a qualified doctor thinks this is the best route to take, don't go down that road. A psychiatrist is what you need, not a drug to mask the problems of another drug.

Are you sure? They say benzos are the current treatment for HPPD.
 
^^^
A psychiatrist will most likely prescribe him at least one drug.

Decent point... A psychologist then.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, as I'm by no means an expert on HPPD, but I don't think benzos are a cure for anything. If anyone knows otherwise, feel free to correct me. As far as I know, benzos help with anxiety, but only when they are used. It is a fact that they are physically addictive, and benzo withdrawal can be absolutely horrific. Some people are never able to get off them. If a doctor that knows about HPPD thinks benzos are the best way to go, I'd consider it. But if you are diagnosing yourself, I would be very hesitant to go down this road if I were you.
 
^definitely

If you end up self-medicating with benzos, then end up in the hospital or out of cash or decide to quit cold turkey to get off them... the effects of sudden benzo withdrawal on the body can be so severe it is FATAL. Seriously, man. VERY VERY VERY foolish and risky to deliberately start giving yourself benzos on a regular basis (as opposed to like the rare one-off buzz night). This sort of continuous bezo use MUST be overseen and managed by a doctor, or it could fucking KILL you.
 
^

An absolutely perfect reason to start visiting a therapist. Get yourself forwarded by your general practitioner of if you know where to go yourself start calling an make an appointment.

I am really running out of ideas why not to discourage you from continuing this on your own and I feel like closing this thread.

Out of support though I will not close it right away, but please start taking the advice like others have already given in this thread and previous ones started by you. Time to face the music, man. Even though this is not about us... people's patience runs out if you ask for advice and then when you are resisting taking any of it because it sucks asking for more advice.

Benzo use can increase depression, give you tolerance / addiction, and is not an as-is cure for HPPD like that although it may suppress some of the more immediate symptoms. Even so, it can make it harder to let you work on the actual underlying symptoms because it suppresses everything else as well - they are depressants.
Some psychiatrists and others that want you to call them professionals are ignorant about benzo addiction and things like that, be aware of such things yourself and research the medication that is suggested to you, if any.
Especially the more potent benzo's like clonazepam (Klonopin) and alprazolam (Xanax), that work at around 1 mg, are much too often prescribed in an overdose because it is not taken into account enough that they are more potent. You have been warned.

Benzo.co.uk has a cornucopia of information on benzo's. You want to be careful with benzo's, trust me. Read up on them before you do anything like taking one, and especially don't start doing it medicinally on your own without guidance.

I wouldn't recommend recreational use of benzo's either and can hardly support the occasional use for moments of increased insomnia or panic. Personally I am always hesitant to use them too often, I am scared shitless to get tolerant. And I feel sorry for the people that let it come too far, it's really easy too because it's just easier to take them and get calmed down.

Even if benzo's help with certain aspects of your HPPD, taking them without supervision will extremely easy make you dependent on them for the pure reason that you feel like they are working. It may sound like a fair trade at the moment but then it must be you haven't heard enough about the hells people go through with them.
 
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Here is my experience with HPPD and benzos, I hope it helps:

I was 17 when I began a very bad and reckless string of drug abuse involving psychedelics, (LSD, mushrooms, DMT) RCs (2c series, I, C, D, E, T2, T4, B) and heavy pharmaceutical amphetamine abuse involving staying away for days at a time and causing stim psychosis, that, combined with a constant use of 2c-I (also a hard stimulant) left me a mental wreck. I had to move out of state and get a job at a si resort in the mountains to try to regain myself. I never went to a doctor because I thought I was going to be thrown in a cell.

my symptoms ranged from paranoia to full on flashbacks, constant, audibly hissing static on blank surfaces, tracers, and the mirror effect which you describe here. I would literally stand in front of my own mirror letting my eyes dry out, unblinking, watching my face shift into the likenesses of thousands of other people it was disturbing but facinating at the same time, I had constant nightmares, objects melting, you get it, I thought that I had been kidnapped by aliens. it was the works for 8 months straight. but I rode it out and eventually healed, to a degree.

What really got me snapped out of it was actually a cold turkey w/d from xanax, I had been taking mass amounts when I discovered it as it really did make none of the symptoms matter to me, "ah static, whatever." was the way it hit me, but I did not realize how bad it was going to get. I C/Ted from 6 mg a day, and by day three I couldn't walk. I couldn't stand up straight, my mind felt clearer than it had been in months and I really felt awake, like I had been sleeping for MONTHS on end. I felt like total and complete shit for a week straight and then had to go in and work a stressful shift on new years (christmas was ruined, couldnt get out of bed, so much DP/DR I felt like puking)
but.. once the major symptoms left, it was like my brain had forgotten about the visuals it had been constantly obsessing over for months, like some reset button had gone off somewhere. I just went on not caring about them from then on out.

now, benzos are addictive, and im back on klonopin for a lot of reasons but mainly due to the fact that I picked up my amph habit again this summer and with it came the combo of kpins.

all I gotta say is this.
I am miserably dependant on benzos. try to sort your head out without them.
 
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