PEA and its isomers/analogues Q's

[nidhogg]

Firstly as we all know meth causes severe side effects seen in addicts such as meth mouth, brain degeneration etc. Now, afaik meth(n-methyl-alpha-methylphenylethylamine) is simply a methylated version of amphetamine(a-MPEA) on the nitrogen atom to increase potency and bioavailability. So why has there not been similar reports with amphetamine abuse, is it only due to potency?

Also i noticed that b-MPEA is openly sold as dieting pills, why is this broken down by mao-b and amphetamine is not? Would deprenyl + b-MPEA cause amphetamine like effects?

edit: crap i didnt notice the thread below, merge it if possible

 

[Hammilton]

there's good reason to believe that "meth mouth" is caused by a combination of bad hygiene and impurities in meth (since meth is often smoked).

Would meth mouth be seen in someone using meth orally only? Hard to say, but I bet not.

People using amphetamine proper are usually using it in the form of pills, and those who are buying expensive pills (on a mg basis) usually care enough to brush their teeth. They're also not smoking those pills, and even if they were, it's unlikely that the non-amphetamine components of pills are particularly bad for your mouth.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Meth is simply much more common as a street drugs (as opposed to pills) because the chemicals needed to make it are easy to get, while the key ingredient to make amphetamine was banned several years ago. If pseudoephedrine had been banned rather than PPA you would see amphetamine everywhere like you do meth now.

 

[Hammilton]

PPA wasn't banned. It was basically pulled from market because of the major heart issues it can cause.

Amphetamine is still hardly a difficult chemical to make. Meth is preferred to amphetamine by stimulant users so that's what gets produced. Before PPA was pulled from the market meth was still the more common amphetamine in the US.

That's not to say that precursor availability is irrelevant, though. Amp is more common in Europe as a direct result of P2P being the main precursor.

You can't rule out the societal reasons though. In America people know and are comfortable making meth using whatever the popular method is. Now a one-pot "shake and bake" method is becoming popular. It could easily change.

 

[ebola?]

there's good reason to believe that "meth mouth" is caused by a combination of bad hygiene and impurities in meth (since meth is often smoked).

There's a lot of doubt that meth mouth stems primarily from direct physical contact with various 'poisons' (meth being a candidate). We tend to see as rapid deterioration of oral health in addicts who stick to insufflation (I'm recalling a report...not as good as a primary study). I would say that a combination of bad hygiene, diet, dry mouth, and vasoconstriction in the gums are mainly to blame. People tend to dose higher and for longer periods with meth than with other stimulants.

ebola

 

[Firefly999]

Despite what the american dental assn says, after using meth (known as 'p' here in nz) for five years, i totally believe meth mouth is more than just normal gum disease. I was always flossing and brushing and regularly visited my dentist for special cleaning but nevertheless at the age of 50, my teeth are decaying badly and from the roots, not from the tooth surface. I have so far had eight of them out and will probably lose the rest this year.

 

[(zonk)]

I'm not sure but I would assume it is due to some sort of vitamin deficiency. Meth isn't the only stim that does this, look at crackheads, they get methmouth worse than methheads. Don't forget stims increase metabolism and kill hunger so yer nutrients are being drained greatly and not replaced. I think supplementing with EXTRA vitamin/nutrient intake, and getting some sleep will allow u to tweak w/o loosing yer teeth. +Make sure yer not grinding yer teeth either, that cant b good.

 

[Transform]

I was under the impression that a mjor contributing factor was the dry mouth caused by stimulants, which means no saliva removing acid, protecting teeth etc combined with the typical heavy user's poor oral hygiene leading to advanced decay.

I thought that moderated or prepared users could avoid it, so I am surprised to see firefly's post.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Make sure yer not grinding yer teeth either, that cant b good.

This is definately a factor, the only teeth I'm missing (after years of meth use/abuse are my wisdom teeth. They were about an eight of an inch (3mm) above the level of my other teeth, and really should have been pulled anyway. They ground down badly. Other than the bottom incisors, which were knocked out with a pool cue in a bar fight my other teeth are fine.

 

[Hammilton]

The bad hygiene bit has always been strange to me. On stimulants I always brushed and flossed and picked constantly.

My teeth are still getting bad. I've always had thin enamel, when I was a kid even with multidaily brushing I still got a lot of cavities (perhaps the result of living in a location where the water was not fluorinated). Didn't have any for a while, but lately it seems that I'm getting a lot sensitivity, despite brushing four+ times daily. Oh well.

 

[sekio]

b-MPEA is missing the carbon on the alpha position of the phenethylamine chain that prevents MAO from "fitting" around the molecule and oxidising it. However it also doesn't interact in the same way as amphetamine at receptors in your brain and as a result you don't see people abusing it.

I'm fairly sure straight amphetamine will cause a lot of the same problems of meth, it's just harder in this day and age to have such a large supply of straight amphetamine when methamphetmaine is cheaper, more widely availiable, and better bang for your buck.

 

[sekio]

whoops