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DXM lover

Also it's curious that he would want to tell all about his 3x a week DXM use on a public harm reduction forum and then react defensively to the responses. I imagine maybe his subconscious had a better reason for posting than just wanting to "share this".
 
I dunno sometimes people need their "band-aid" solutions until they are able to resolve the underlying issues. I don't really have any opinion here because I don't know whether or not the OP is experiencing many side effects, or just how strong his need to use DXM. The level of dependence can't be assessed just by frequency of use, there is also the attachment to the experience. Some people are able to cut down or eliminate heavy use without much issue, it really depends on the person. But taking away somebody's comfort without changing anything else isn't always beneficial.

Doesn't mean I think everybody should go and do as much DXM as possible, just saying.
 
I don't think I'm being defensive at all. You are asking questions, and I'm answering them. I have said there are cravings, that I have observed tolerance building. We are taking a break now and will reassess. I would like this conversation to continue nonetheless.

Addiction is something that happens with a number of significant warning signals. It is slow and methodical, and if I note the signals and act responsibly about them, I feel I can continue with caution. I understand addiction VERY well. I have felt the pull of it many times, enough times that I recognize it very quickly.

Why is it you think I'm not actually dealing with issues? Why am I necessarily escaping? This process has been marked by some extremely difficult and emotional revelations, none of which I've shared with you, but I will lay some of them out for you. Would you like to hear? I've got no one besides my spouse to share this with, and it feels too important to keep secret. It was not my intent to use this drug as therapy, but that is what it is for now. I am also in counseling. I haven't told my therapist about the drug component, and I'm not sure it matters; I'm exploring what I thought about with her.
 
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surf.shaman said:
Eye's use now appears to me to be self-medicating his depression.
I don't understand the receptor action / neurotransmitter re-uptake / neurotransmitter agonist / or whatever action of DXM BUT it really appears as though he's using it as an off label anti-depressant... still i don't agree with this choice of medication and I am sure there are better options.
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I have been on anti-depressants for most of my life. SSRIs like Lexapro cause me to have hypomanic episodes, so I don't take them. I take an old tricyclic called Tofranil and a very low dose of that. I do not have health insurance and order it from an offshore pharmacy; you know the situation for us here in the US.

I do think I'm addressing actual clinical depression, but not by escaping or taking pills to try to bandage the holes in my psyche. I think I'm doing the real work of looking at the shame and guilt I've been carrying with me and questioning the beliefs that have kept me paralyzed here for years and years.

I think this is an important thing I'm trying to convey. I'm listening to your questions and hearing some judgment, but your judgment is based on your own tired belief system. I understand that. I am sober right now, and utterly lucid. I am not under the influence of any drug.
 
Repo said:
ok. listen to me as a recovering alcoholic myself who has found rapture in dxm> dxm will take you if you let it, but it does have the potential to save you if your able to curb the craving. i took dxm for over a month strait 300mgs everyday...not good...will lead to alcohol when the money runs out or ya get scared of drug stores....but. one a week at no more than 200mgs ive found no bad reprocussions whatsoever. though your tolerence increases, as alcoholics we learn that living with less to feel normal is as good as drunk in most cases, use that mind frame and ou will find control and dxm will help, let it go and your screwed, dxm will hurt the brain, alcohol can fix it oddly enough but livir and kidney damage is to extreme to risk and alcohol even a shot to an alcoholic is deadly.......be advised....
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I will never drink again. Not ever. I have pulled myself up from an extremely dark place that I will never forget. You can bank on that. I have never known alcohol to heal anything. It temporarily relieves discomfort, and in the long term ushers in a nightmare of depression and anxiety. It hides and covers and buries and poisons.
 
Never Knows Best said:
3x a week is unsustainable for reasons of tolerance, as a non-naive person you should know that. You can only up the dose so for so long, and when you're still doing this to no more apparent benefit, what then? It's wonderful that this is helping you, but would it not be better to build a healthy and sustainable relationship with the drug now, while you still can? I think you underestimate the negative impact a dissociative addiction can have on a person, especially psychologically.

Edit: you addressed the above in your post while I was writing it..do you think you'll notice when the benefits start outweighing the risk every time? It seems you have never been psychologically addicted to anything, most people don't notice when it becomes bad. You know, denial and stuff, it has happened to many of us. We just don't want to see you end up in a worse place than before when you could have avoided it through some extra caution.
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I think most people notice the signals but choose to continue anyway. It's a series of little permissions that over time allows for a very large error in judgment.
 
Eye said:
I don't think I'm being defensive at all. You are asking questions, and I'm answering them. I have said there are cravings, that I have observed tolerance building. We are taking a break now and will reassess. I would like this conversation to continue nonetheless.

Addiction is something that happens with a number of significant warning signals. It is slow and methodical, and if I note the signals and act responsibly about them, I feel I can continue with caution. I understand addiction VERY well. I have felt the pull of it many times, enough times that I recognize it very quickly.

Why is it you think I'm not actually dealing with issues? Why am I necessarily escaping? This process has been marked by some extremely difficult and emotional revelations, none of which I've shared with you, but I will lay some of them out for you. Would you like to hear? I've got no one besides my spouse to share this with, and it feels too important to keep secret. It was not my intent to use this drug as therapy, but that is what it is for now. I am also in counseling. I haven't told my therapist about the drug component, and I'm not sure it matters; I'm exploring what I thought about with her.
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I have no idea whether or not you are looking for and working on the reasons for your DXM use. My point was just that asking somebody to stop their drug use without looking at the reasons for it is not necessarily helpful. I'm glad if you are making progress in whatever you are working on.
 
Legerity said:
I have no idea whether or not you are looking for and working on the reasons for your DXM use. My point was just that asking somebody to stop their drug use without looking at the reasons for it is not necessarily helpful. I'm glad if you are making progress in whatever you are working on.
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Awesome. :)
 
Eye, it's great to hear that you have overcome your alchol addiction, much respect! I hope you don't take offence to what people are saying to you, after all at 46 you are old enough to make your own decisions, I just think that people are
expressing genuin concern for you, after all you know how
bad addiction can get! Stay safe H
 
Eye said:
I have been on anti-depressants for most of my life. SSRIs like Lexapro cause me to have hypomanic episodes, so I don't take them. I take an old tricyclic called Tofranil and a very low dose of that. I do not have health insurance and order it from an offshore pharmacy; you know the situation for us here in the US.

I do think I'm addressing actual clinical depression, but not by escaping or taking pills to try to bandage the holes in my psyche. I think I'm doing the real work of looking at the shame and guilt I've been carrying with me and questioning the beliefs that have kept me paralyzed here for years and years.

I think this is an important thing I'm trying to convey. I'm listening to your questions and hearing some judgment, but your judgment is based on your own tired belief system. I understand that. I am sober right now, and utterly lucid. I am not under the influence of any drug.
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How does Tofranil interact with DXM?

I am past you escaping and I am now with you on self medicating.

I am glad we agree that you are using DXM to treat your depression. It concerns me. I will listen to your actual issue issues as well if you really want to share them.

(when I say addict that means somebody that has lost control and suffered some kind of significant damage / consequences from their problem)

You're right about my judgement - it is based on my belief system and how I feel a recovering addict should behave.

I think typically addicts should not control their own medication. I think they should stay away from intoxications - period. That means not even being a bystander.

The whole angle with you being an addiction counselor really makes this different.

So if you were counseling an addict - would you recommend that they research OTC drugs and use them in an off label fashion?
 
Most of the people I work with have an extremely limited education. They have not finished high school, and some are illiterate. People who have not learned critical thinking skills may not be good at assessing the relative risk-to-therapeutic-utility ratio of drugs. But I never tell them what they should or shouldn't do. I try to teach them how to think critically about what they put into their bodies and make wiser choices. Telling people what to think is not particularly helpful, and they find it as offensive as you probably do.

Alcohol is a very different substance. People often use it to alleviate depression, but after any significant time drinking, it feeds the depression and makes it worse. People still think it helps them so they keep using it, but heavy drinkers have significant memory loss during episodes of drinking and often don't recall the extreme depression that results from a period of drinking. Their higher cognitive skills are essentially anesthetized and don't function much at all. They are operating on emotion rather than rational thought. Extreme anxiety and depression make the craving for alcohol overpoweringly strong even before physical addiction occurs.

There are times when physical addiction happens very quickly as it did for me. I had not been a drinker for long when physical addiction occurred, perhaps a few years that started light and ended quite heavy. People who have gastric bypass surgery get physically addicted much more often and much more quickly than most other people. That is what happened to me. The alcohol hit my bloodstream much faster. Tolerance rose quickly, and I was addicted very, very quickly.

That's why heroin users who inject or smoke tend to get addicted very quickly compared to those who simply swallow pills because the drug hits the bloodstream very quickly. The method of ingestion is an important component.

I have just started the Tofranil at 25 mg a day about a week ago, which is not an effective dose. There is a chance of seratonin syndrome, which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome. I may discontinue it, or I may discontinue the DXM entirely.
 
When I was a teenager I used a lot of DXM. At first it was a weekend thing, then a few times a week, eventually semi-daily. Mostly I was using it to self-medicate my depression ((depakote, seroquel, effexor, etc. etc. just made me fat, so I quit taking those)) Anyway, sometimes it put me in really great moods and I was convinced it was helping me. A few times I got so down I tried to kill myself, ending up in the hospital a few times. Somehow I managed to forget about those and just be convinced it was helping me be happy where all the other shit had failed me. I kept doing it though, got kicked out of school because I never went anymore and my parents couldn't tell me shit, and basically just cut off all my friends ((kept my girlfriend because she loved DXM just as much as I did)). I have a bunch of shitty memories from that time period, but a ton of awesome ones too. I won't judge you because I don't know your situation, but it sounds (from my limited information) like you might be replacing one crutch with another.

Anyway, my shits on straight now. But, it took me two years of fixing all the shit you can fuck up as a teenager ((getting a diploma from an alternative school, getting back in shape, mending a wounded relationship with both parents)) and four years in the military, but I'm in college now and doing well. I'm probably not the first DXM sob-story warning you've heard, but I wanted to post this just in case I was. If anything maybe personalizing it will help you recognize that DXM isn't harmless just because Olney's Lesions doesn't seem to occur in humans. Very few things in excess are harmless. A lot of people would say 3x a week is excess and I'd agree just based on personal experience, but really that's something you decide for yourself.

I do agree with your observation that slipping into addiction is a series of small permissions. I think that's a great way of looking at it. I'm sure with your experience you ((and your wife)) will be able to avoid the pitfalls of addiction that can easily manifest itself with this type of substance. You really have to pay attention it seems. I hope just because you've conquered one addiction, you don't get cocky and think you're addiction-proof. I was convinced by all my reading that DXM was harmless, which physically it might be, but it caused some sever personality changes in me that took me a lot of work to first notice, and then undo. It definitely managed to bring out a side of me that I'm not proud of.

It's like four in the morning, sorry if this was kinda jumbled, it feels jumbled.
 
Well, it appears that my DXM experiences must come to an end. I'm finding I'm far too irritable when I'm not on it, so it's got to stop. But it did help me reach an understanding about a whole lot of things, and it was invaluable for that. I will talk about it when I'm less irritable again. <groan>

Anxiety and irritability are early addiction indicators for me. I may be able to use it occasionally later, but it will be a little while before I try.
 
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It's good that you are able to be honest with yourself and make a decision based on that. Good luck with your choice :)
 
Abore, thank you for generously sharing your experience. What you describe is likely exactly what I'm starting to observe in my own behavior. It is so nice to feel so good. I'm hoping that when my irritability passes, whatever I gained from the experience will stay with me, but that remains to be seen. The irritability is extreme, and it's accompanied by a strong craving for more, something I hadn't experienced with this drug yet. Little cravings are no big deal for me, but the powerful ones are scary. I'm off of it for a good long while, and then when and if I take it up again, it will be very occasional use.
 
We have discussed very low daily doses (say 100 mg?) strictly for its antidepressant effect at some point, but not right now and not any time soon.
 
Eye said:
We have discussed very low daily doses (say 100 mg?) strictly for its antidepressant effect at some point, but not right now and not any time soon.
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I wouldn't even touch the stuff man, hurts the brain :/.
 
Eye said:
We have discussed very low daily doses (say 100 mg?) strictly for its antidepressant effect at some point, but not right now and not any time soon.
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I sincerely wish that you had ability to see a doctor that could help you.
Have you tried any OTC solutions?
 
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