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? for the heavy E users from 80's &90's: DOES MDMA CAUSE LONG TERM BRAIN DAMAGE?

rickolasnice said:
It's known that high / repeated / frequent doses of MDMA are neurotoxic.. I suspect single doses are slightly but easily and quickly repaired.
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Is this true in your own experience? Or is this something that you believe based on all the stuff that's been put out there?
 
Clean_Cut said:
Because E has only been around such a short time, even the older users of this drug are still relatively young (compared to LSD for instance). Even if someone started using in 86...thats only 24 years ago!

Long term health implications can take alot longer than that. Take alcohol for example. Im sure alot of people have been drinking for 20ish years and dont notice too many problems..although Id hate to see their complications in another 20 years....

Dont get me wrong I think this is an excellent thread with alot of potential - and bearloves testimony is not falling on dead ears...

Im just saying! :)
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If MDMA was in fact as harmful as some people claim, I'm quite sure that 20+ years of regular use would cause some obvious long-term problems.

And many people can drink for 20 years in a way that is beneficial for their health, it depends on the individual and the way they use a particular substance.
 
scatterbrain said:
Is this true in your own experience? Or is this something that you believe based on all the stuff that's been put out there?
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It's true.. hold on lemme get sources..

Read through: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity1.shtml#longtermchanges

Any agonism of both 5-HT and DA will likely result in neurotoxicity..

But yeah it's also kinda true in my own experience.. i used to be extremely confident, outgoing, etc.. fast forward past MDMA abuse* and i'm paranoid, riddled with anxiety and depression that i am only now startin to get over..

*But then again i have abused other chemicals (amphetamine, 4-mmc + others)..

It'd be stupid to assume MDMA causes no damage to your brain once you know a bit of info surrounding it that hasn't been published by pro-drug users / MDMA enthusiasts..
 
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Given the amount of ecstasy I've used over the better part of the last 15 years, I would have to say the dangers of mdma are hugely over-exaggerated. The propoganda would have you believe i'd practically be a vegetable with all kinds of brain damage and whatnot. Instead, I have no noticeable permanent long term side effects.
 
rickolasnice said:
It'd be stupid to assume MDMA causes no damage to your brain once you know a bit of info surrounding it that hasn't been published by pro-drug users / MDMA enthusiasts..
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I understand what you are saying, but it's difficult to create a general prediction of MDMA's effects because people react differently. It seems to have caused you problems, whereas some people report long-term improvements in mental health. This doesn't mean that MDMA is good or bad. It may just mean that some people benefit from it whereas others don't.

We do not fully understand the brain. Research findings can only give us clues because they cannot be interpreted with certainty until scientists have a more comprehensive understanding of how the brain function and what physiological changes actually mean. I'm a bit of a science geek myself but I've had to come to accept that many research findings are actually based on an incomplete understanding.
 
rickolasnice said:
It's true.. hold on lemme get sources..

Read through: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity1.shtml#longtermchanges

Any agonism of both 5-HT and DA will likely result in neurotoxicity..

But yeah it's also kinda true in my own experience.. i used to be extremely confident, outgoing, etc.. fast forward past MDMA abuse* and i'm paranoid, riddled with anxiety and depression that i am only now startin to get over..

*But then again i have abused other chemicals (amphetamine, 4-mmc + others)..

It'd be stupid to assume MDMA causes no damage to your brain once you know a bit of info surrounding it that hasn't been published by pro-drug users / MDMA enthusiasts..
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As mentioned earlier, I was led to believe that ecstasy caused brain damage and because I so firmly believed in the propaganda, I started experiencing the depression, anxiety and panic, stuttering, etc.. I saw the movie "The Secret" and that was when I stopped thinking so incessantly about how ecstasy damaged my brain and as a result, all those "symptoms" from ecstasy use magically vanished. And that's when I started feeling angry at the gov't for all the bullshit they put out there. They also put out ton of bullshit with weed and LSD. So now I no longer want to read any study or esxperiments done with ecstasy because they really can't be trusted. But what has credibility are people's firsthand experiences.
 
People.. trust me.. MDMA is neurotoxic xP How so? I dunno.. How long damage will last? I dunno? But it causes damage.. go and ask this question in ADD (Advanced Drug Discussion) and get some info off some people that know what they're talking about rather than a load of MDMA enthusiasts ;) infact i'll find a thread for you..
 
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scatterbrain said:
As mentioned earlier, I was led to believe that ecstasy caused brain damage and because I so firmly believed in the propaganda, I started experiencing the depression, anxiety and panic, stuttering, etc.. I saw the movie "The Secret" and that was when I stopped thinking so incessantly about how ecstasy damaged my brain and as a result, all those "symptoms" from ecstasy use magically vanished. And that's when I started feeling angry at the gov't for all the bullshit they put out there. They also put out ton of bullshit with weed and LSD. So now I no longer want to read any study or esxperiments done with ecstasy because they really can't be trusted. But what has credibility are people's firsthand experiences.
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^ OK my first hand experience = ecstasy abuse can cause problems with depression and anxiety. Not because i read that it does.. because i felt that it does.

You can't disbelieve all studies done on MDMA because a hand full of government funded studies resulted in biased conclusions? -_-

Don't get me wrong.. i believe MDMA is an amazing drug. It has the potential to help people in so many ways, it has the potential to improve peoples lives in so many ways, etc.. Doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential to cause damage.
 
I could be wrong, but I think maybe what scatterbrain was trying to say is that it can be made a lot worse if you never stop thinking about how damaged you are.

Personally, I think the damage is minimal except with abuse, and even with that it goes away with time and being healthy. There are exceptions in extreme cases, like the 40,000 pills guy, but most of us are gonna be just fine.

People forget how powerful the mind is, and while I don't like the movie "The Secret" I do believe in the power of positive thinking. It helps push you in the right direction. If you believe you are severely brain damaged and you focus on that for too long, your recovery time will be a lot slower. Think about every angry person you know... they're miserable because all they focus on is negativity.
 
rickolasnice said:
People.. trust me.. MDMA is neurotoxic xP How so? I dunno.. How long damage will last? I dunno? But it causes damage.. go and ask this question in ADD (Advanced Drug Discussion) and get some info off some people that know what they're talking about rather than a load of MDMA enthusiasts ;) infact i'll find a thread for you..
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rickolasnice said:
^ OK my first hand experience = ecstasy abuse can cause problems with depression and anxiety. Not because i read that it does.. because i felt that it does.

You can't disbelieve all studies done on MDMA because a hand full of government funded studies resulted in biased conclusions? -_-

Don't get me wrong.. i believe MDMA is an amazing drug. It has the potential to help people in so many ways, it has the potential to improve peoples lives in so many ways, etc.. Doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential to cause damage.
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Im not really sure the point of your post to be honest - (not being rude)

I don’t think anyone on here is saying that MDMA is without its risks – most of us know that it’s neurotoxic and that it (like most drugs) has the ability to cause damage to the brain and body.

The thread is about long term users and what, if any, problems they have experienced.

I am far an MDMA ‘enthusiast’, however I do personally believe that people can use MDMA safely and repeat time and time again that rolling too often only increases the risks associated with the drug (depression, anxiety and a whole host of psychological problems).
 
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Roughly 20 years of use and the worst long term effect seems to be the brain fog,however piracetam is helping with that. I did in the late 90`s,after a 3 year heavy binge,did go through a deppressive time. I did however come out of that.

I am now 40 and have justed started in the past 2 years using only a couple of times a year. Alot of those pills were incredible while a bunch were tainted.I have eaten at least 1000 plus tabs in my time and don`t regret it as whole.

Looking back,I would not have eaten nearly as many.I would have saved those times for known high quality rolls. Kids today have a wealth of information and tools to check for purity. I hope people take advantage of these tools,and respect their mind and body!
 
Bearlove said:
Im not really sure the point of your post to be honest - (not being rude)

I don’t think anyone on here is saying that MDMA is without its risks – most of us know that it’s neurotoxic and that it (like most drugs) has the ability to cause damage to the brain and body.

The thread is about long term users and what, if any, problems they have experienced.

I am far an MDMA ‘enthusiast’, however I do personally believe that people can use MDMA safely and repeat time and time again that rolling too often only increases the risks associated with the drug (depression, anxiety and a whole host of psychological problems).
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Alot of people in this thread seem to think it is without risks and all data saying otherwise if government bullshit ;)
 
rickolasnice said:
Alot of people in this thread seem to think it is without risks and all data saying otherwise if government bullshit ;)
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There isnt anyone in this thread saying that it is without risks - the main concern is that the information put out by the goverment is simply untrue or misleading.

I do think that many of the problems that people talk about in the threads are over exaggerated – new users are almost paranoid about depression, anxiety and the most common phrase ‘losing the magic’. I don’t know how many threads are started or discuss people who have maybe taken 5 pills in their life and are convinced they have done untold damage to their brains and have ‘lost the magic’.

This ‘losing the magic’ is an American saying and not something anyone would mention in the UK as we know that if you hammer the pills/drugs your going to pay the price. People seem to think that sugar coating the problem makes it better, if you have taken so much MDMA that you have damaged your brain you will not be able to roll (another American saying:D).

I wonder how many people would be as quick to say they have given themselves brain damage or would be as eager to take pills every weekend.
 
dablow said:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNGbJNvfqqz9Q-pRhaoQJ9aYdVEdyQ&cad=rja
this will answer any questions plus REAL lab testing results not us bs
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Hey man thanks for this video link. Very good video. It helped me realize how much my perception of MDMA is really tainted due to the fear and lies spread by of our corrupt government. I'll have to give MDMA another chance with a new perspective. Notice how Ricaurte is a total government propaganda tool. They used him to make up some bullshit that they hoped the American people would buy, in order to scare everyone away from doing ecstasy. Once his work was proven to be a load, the government used him again and he said that he mistakenly gave the monkeys methamphetamine instead of MDMA. Wow, what a mistake. How does a professional scientist working for the government accidentally test subjects with meth in a lab setting? Obviously the government decided they would salvage what they could of Ricaurte's 'work' to spread fear about meth (I hate meth personally, but our government should at least talk to us about it truthfully and stop lying through their asses about everything). Also notice in the beginning of the program how that DEA agent couldn't give any good reason why the DEA wanted to ban MDMA, but instead he was complaining about the drug's ability to cause people to connect with and love one another. What sad sad people we share this world with.
 
I would like to strongly second most everything Bearlove has said so far. Further, I do think that a lot of users on this website are insensitive to negative information about MDMA because they have been fed so much BS in the past on everything from LSD to weed, and MDMA has a very strong "MDMA Side-effects/long term effects" mythology in the rave culture and other places based on very little actual information. Regardless, it is difficult for laypeople to sort through all of the misinformation and information from people who have agendas; when something is an item of controversy, opinions polarize.

This website and others has done extremely well to provide information to those who seek it, and those who seek information are the only people I trust to reliably find it. People who look for confirmation of their opinions of a thing will always find some way to make that work, and it is a shame that because of that little trick of our brains, the desire to confirm our own opinions, a lot of people will condemn an experience with little foundation, or on the other side shout praise and whisper warnings.
 
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