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changing metabolism of nutmeg= different metabolites & effects?

this is a pretty sweet thread. nutmeg however for me is agonising and makes me DUMB!

anyways ppl already report that pepper +chocolate is good!
bhang?
chai?
who knows what else. anyways I want a way to find and injest alkylbenzine and convert it in my little rat liver into amphetamine...
 
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blessedamines said:
well to see if piperidine is acting on certain enzymes inhibiting or hibiting certain functions is well beyond us on bluelight and would require knowledge and equipment of a certain degree, so all we can do is speculate, and honestly i really dont know how piperidine would act on theses enzymes and there direct mechanics, my hypothesis would be that its a combined effect of the two components, who knows they could be having a synergistic effect.
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especially if you keep confusing the alkaloid PIPERINE with the somple heterocycle PIPERIDINE :|

there doesn't seem to be overlap between the p450 subtypes involved in allyl benzene metabolism and those involved with piperine.

each to their own I guess but I suggest ingesting large quantities of potentially carcinogenic and hepatotoxic allyl benzenes is not a great idea.
Go find some safer drugs.
 
vecktor said:
especially if you keep confusing the alkaloid PIPERINE with the somple heterocycle PIPERIDINE :|

there doesn't seem to be overlap between the p450 subtypes involved in allyl benzene metabolism and those involved with piperine.

each to their own I guess but I suggest ingesting large quantities of potentially carcinogenic and hepatotoxic allyl benzenes is not a great idea.
Go find some safer drugs.
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P450 liver enzyme subtypes do metabolize allyl benzenes and the P450 subtypes are affected by piperine and piperidine. also both piperine and piperidine are present in black pepper, but you are right as the two should be noted as different substances.

you are right about how much and often these substances should be ingested, so don't try this on a frequent basis.

and i do have plenty of safer drugs, i just have become interested in this experiment with nutmeg and black pepper. i didn't think i could get such a trip from my spice rack.
 
blessedamines said:
well to see if piperidine is acting on certain enzymes inhibiting or hibiting certain functions is well beyond us on bluelight and would require knowledge and equipment of a certain degree, so all we can do is speculate, and honestly i really dont know how piperidine would act on theses enzymes and there direct mechanics, my hypothesis would be that its a combined effect of the two components, who knows they could be having a synergistic effect.
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piperine and piperidine have been shown to affect certain enzymes(P450 subtypes), acting as an inhibitor of some and possibly an inducer of others.

theres no "synergistic" effect as piperine and piperidine are not psychoactive, any effect of the mix is by the psychoactive compounds in nutmeg being altered while going through metabolism producing different(and better) compounds than nutmeg ingested alone.
 
In vitro myristicin metabolized into 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MMDA, 5-MeO-MDA), using rat liver homogenates [1]. However in vivo it metabolizes into 1-(7-methoxybenzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-2-(pyridin-3-yl)propan-1-one and 1-(7-methoxybenzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-2-(pyrrolidin-3-yl)propan-1-one [2].

The toxicity of myristicin is debatable due to the fact there is a low amount of intake from food daily, and there is no long term studies on chronic administration. The data on if myristicin is carcinogenic is a bit discouraging, but it is not significant. The difference from the myristicin treated mice (0.2) and the control group of mice (0.1), but in the second study the myristicin treated mice (0.4), and the control group of mice (0.5) [3]. So there is some suggested carcinogenicity, but myristicin can treat tumours cause by benzo[a]pyrene [4].

Basically myristicin metabolizes into:
RIEt3.png

and
kftDG.png


[1]
Braun U, Kalbhen DA (1973): Evidence for the biogenic formation of
amphetamine derivatives from components from nutmeg. Pharmacology
9:312–316.
Click to expand...
[2]
Oswald EO, Fishbein L, Corbett BJ, Walker MP (1971): Urinary excretion
of tertiary amino methoxy methylene-dioxy propiophenones as metabolites
of myristicin in the rat and the guinea pig. Biochim Biophys Acta
244:322–328.
Click to expand...
[3]
Miller EC, Swanson AB, Phillips DH, Fletcher LT, Liem A, Miller JA
(1983): Structure-activity studies on the carcinogenicities in the mouse
and rat of some naturally occurring and synthetic alkenylbenzene
derivatives related to safrole and estragole. Cancer Res 43:1124–1134.
Click to expand...
[4]
Zheng G, Kenney PM, Zhang J, Lam LKT (1992): Inhibition of benzo
pyrene-induced tumorigenesis by myristicin, a volatile aroma constituent
of parsley leaf oil. Carcinogenesis 13:1921–1923.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, kill 10 rats, take there livers, put in mixer with nutmerg, mixt, let stand 2 houres and drink.
Enjoy.
 
well i gave this spice combo one more go, and once again i experienced a pleasant psychedelic trip.

has anyone else tried this yet? it seriously will suprise you.
 
StaySedated said:
well i gave this spice combo one more go, and once again i experienced a pleasant psychedelic trip.

has anyone else tried this yet? it seriously will suprise you.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that you are experiencing effects from myristicin, but rather some other obscure alkaloid. It could remotely be safrole.

Safrole metabolizes into 3 main metabolites [1]. The first two are basically myristicin metabolites lacking the methoxy:
74lwa.png

1J5bY.png


But the third metabolite looks like it could be vaguely active (3-N,N-dimethylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-1-propanone):
itJff.png


[1]
http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v16je22.htm
Click to expand...

But safrole is heptatoxic and carcinogenic. So you are playing with fire.

EDIT: N,N-dimet​hyl-3-phe​nylpropan​-1-amine is a MAOI.
 
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IIRC it's the metabolites of safole that are carcinogens, and were found in rats but not people. Which is not to say I'm advising anyone to eat it, it deserves a better fate.

OP, why the interest in nutmeg? It seems mostly popular with people who don't have access to other drugs. From reading your posts clearly you aren't one of those, so is your interest mostly academic, or are your results really so atypical as to warrant exploration? And has anyone you know had similar results?
 
fryingsquirrel said:
IIRC it's the metabolites of safole that are carcinogens, and were found in rats but not people. Which is not to say I'm advising anyone to eat it, it deserves a better fate.

OP, why the interest in nutmeg? It seems mostly popular with people who don't have access to other drugs. From reading your posts clearly you aren't one of those, so is your interest mostly academic, or are your results really so atypical as to warrant exploration? And has anyone you know had similar results?
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yes, a friend tried nutmeg with black pepper and got the same psychedelic effects i did. my interest in this is that the effects of ingesting the two spices actually produces pleasant psychedelic effects, and it has struck my curiousity.

plus the effects were different than nutmeg alone, so i know i'm on to something.
 
alright! some evidence...

well i decided to do another experiment, this time with a home drug test.

a friend who had not used any drugs for 2 weeks said he'd help me. one day he did nutmeg alone, had a typical nutmeg experience(weed like high but a bit trippier and sedating with dry mouth and slight nausea), and he took the home drug test and nothing showed up.

next he took nutmeg with black pepper and experienced a trip he said was definitely different with visuals(said he saw patterns especially with closed eyes, "breathing" walls), changes in vision(things looked "3-D", textured surfaces seemed to be more apparent), euphoria, vivid imagination, shifts in thought patterns, a dreamy state of mind, pupil dilation, and a body load. after the trip he took the drug test and came up positive for amphetamines.

i asked him if had taked amphetamine pills or meth, any cold pills, or anything else and he said he hadn't.

this has to prove something.
 
This sounds quite interesting.

Piperine has been shown to make the CREB and MAO-A inhibitor, curcumin, up to 2000% more potent so I don't doubt that its enzyme inhibiting actions could allow nutmeg to transform into something else - the question is - WHAT amphetamine would be created?
 
MagickalKat777 said:
the question is - WHAT amphetamine would be created?
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i guess thats the million dollar question...

considering the structure of myristicin i would guess something similar to MMDA, and with the structure of elemicin i would guess an amphetamine similar to mescaline like TMA.

one metabolite i'd look into is (3-N, N-dimethylamino-1-(3,4-methyenedioxyphenyl)-1-propanone). i wonder what this what turn into if it were to undergo transformation into an amine metabolite.

as for safrole i don't know.
 
Well what "doses" of each did your friend take - I happened to rather enjoy MMDA and wouldn't mind trying to replicate this experiment but I would need to know what the brand was for the pepper and nutmeg, the specific type of pepper, and the dose taken in order to be the most scientific about it.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Well what "doses" of each did your friend take - I happened to rather enjoy MMDA and wouldn't mind trying to replicate this experiment but I would need to know what the brand was for the pepper and nutmeg, the specific type of pepper, and the dose taken in order to be the most scientific about it.
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there wasn't much "scientific about it. it was a large amount of (i think)Spice Islands nutmeg and the black pepper i think was store brand. it had to be around 30g nutmeg(?) and 2-3g black pepper(?).

for the specific type of pepper its just black pepper, the one i'm sure everybody has in their kitchen.

also i doubt its MMDA thats being metabolized(i've done MMDA and the experience was different), but i think the metabolites are related to MMDA, TMA, and perhaps mescaline.
 
coming back to this old topic, has anybody tried it(nutmeg + bleck pepper)?

i'm still quite curious on the subject and want to see if anybody else has tried it with any luck.
 
are there less side-effects than with nutmeg alone? if you say yes to that, are you really being truthful or is it just wishful thinking?

also i'm pretty concerned about toxicity. nutmeg is pretty toxic on its own before you start messing with your enzyme systems...
 
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