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Ketamine a nootropic?

TheDjinn

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Just came across this article on Science daily. It's main premise points to Ketamines 'anti depressant effects', partially due to it's dramatic ability to increase synaptic connections between neurons (synaptogenesis).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100819141913.htm

Last I checked, strong synaptic connections increases cognitive functioning. Any thoughts?
 
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Ask Jamshyd about this.. He's been experimenting with this for some time I believe

oh.. Welcome to Bluelight :)
 
At first absolutely not, but throughout time with intervals of very very small doses it has been proven to be a quite efficent entidepressant and a neuroprotective agent (and quite possibly a neuro-regenerative agent).
 
At first absolutely not, but throughout time with intervals of very very small doses it has been proven to be a quite efficent entidepressant and a neuroprotective agent (and quite possibly a neuro-regenerative agent).

I did a little bit more research on it and found that neither neurogenesis or synaptogenesis are known to really increase intelligence. As far as brain cells go, 'more is not always better', apparently. If only we could find a superior drug that develops better communication and connections between brain regions. For now I suppose the stronger Racetams are the best we have.
 
Ask Jamshyd about this.. He's been experimenting with this for some time I believe
Haha, you're such a sweetheart <3.

6.5 - 7 years, to be semi-exact :).

My personal subjective experience has showed continuously, without fail, that chronic administration of tiny doses (10 - 15mg for me) results in after-effects that are the opposite of a weekend binge of anaesthesia.

While the typical effects of recreational K use seem to be primarily expressed as difficulties in memory and language-recall; the chronic administration of low doses does the exact opposite: memory becomes like this new automatic-search in google, to use an analogy, and this is logically followed by a wonderful "flow" of linguistic concepts. Synonyms, analogies, grammatical constructs, all are far more easily-grasped than when sober and one knows one wasn't just maniacally tripping out is through things like unusually-high marks on language courses or on essays.

What's more, I will add that I found ULD Ketamine to have powerful synergy with Nicotine (patch), Hydergine and/or Nicergoline in terms of cognitive and creativity enhancement.

Since my name has been mentioned anyway, I guess I'm allowed to put a plug for my Ketamine Regimen thread. ;)
 
I've never tried ultra low dose ketamine before really, so I'm not disputing what Jamshyd has to say about ULD ketamine in the least, but I will say that even a single bottle (about a gram) of ketamine spread over a day or two invariably (for me) has more or less catastrophic effects on my mood, thought patterns, and level of cognition for months at a time.

Therefore, I say no way is ketamine a nootropic at frequently encountered recreational dosage levels. But if you can keep your dose at between 10 to 15 mg per day (and most people don't), then you may be in for totally different effects.
 
^ Oh for sure. Even recreational doses of as low as, say, 30mg (for me) appear to disrupt the therapeutic (and nootropic) effects of 10 - 20mg range doses (although 20mg itself IMO might be too high) if one were on a ULD course. I found that tapering down to the ULD dose (say, last dose -10mg, repeated every 40mins until return to 12mg - at least in my case). The whole thing is counter-intuitive and takes a huge leap of faith for the first 3 days. Had it not been for the growing mountain of literature that shows Ketamine to be a brilliant anti-depressant, you would have seen me a bit more cynical about the procedure myself...
 
Acute and chronic effects of ketamine upon human memory: a review:
http://www.erowid.org/references/texts/show/6959docid6356

Ketamine use, cognition and psychological wellbeing: a comparison of frequent, infrequent and ex-users with polydrug and non-using controls:
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=7649&S=ketamine&SField=all

Impaired cognitive function instead of improved.

Like Jamshyd and others pointed out, those symptoms are the result of recreational doses. The first article I linked showed that very low doses caused synaptogensis in rats.

Not sure what to think, honestly.
 
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Like I said - if one were to binge on incapacitating doses for even a couple of days, and one will find, in the days during and afterward in one's self-perception proof for the studies cited by Blowmonkey. We knew that heavy K-use carried all these risks before some cute little psychiatrist decided to "discover" them. We also have always known of the miraculously beneficial effects. It is only a matter of time before some discerning scientist decides to "discover" them, too.

Taking ULD and having some patience (usually within a day after 1st dose), seems to consistently allow people to come upon a sudden, unique, and impossible-to-miss effect that is characterized by a sense of restored-balance (emotional, mental, and even bodily) along with clarity of thought, improved memory recall, and enhanced eloquence. It is also very distinct from the euphoria experienced on recreational doses, as well as being different from the well-reported "afterglow".

I was able to observe "duplicate results" (so to speak) of this effect in every single person who tried a ULD course (adapted to their own bodies - main variables being exact dose, frequency and route of admin.) and stuck with it, then got back to me with the results.

Also those who tried and got good results then succumbed to bingeing on recreational doses (myself included in a couple instances) found, invariably, that said binges destroy most of the beneficial effects and add their well-known risks. (by "invariably" I mean specifically the 20 - 30 people who gave me feedback over the years).

To re-emphasize: I am in no way saying that bingeing on recreational doses of K is devoid of risks - it most definitely has its risks, both mental and physical. What I am saying though is that in my and several others' personal experiences, a ULD (12mg in my case) regimen appears to act as an entirely different drug.

And of course, the golden rule still applies: YMMV.
 
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I've never tried ultra low dose ketamine before really, so I'm not disputing what Jamshyd has to say about ULD ketamine in the least, but I will say that even a single bottle (about a gram) of ketamine spread over a day or two invariably (for me) has more or less catastrophic effects on my mood, thought patterns, and level of cognition for months at a time.

Therefore, I say no way is ketamine a nootropic at frequently encountered recreational dosage levels. But if you can keep your dose at between 10 to 15 mg per day (and most people don't), then you may be in for totally different effects.

No doubt about it. The only difference between poison and medicine is dose (usually!)
 
The first article I linked showed that very low doses caused synaptogensis in rats.

I did not gather that from the article, but then again, I haven't read the full text, the abstract makes no mention of dosages.

There are certainly signs that NMDA antagonists can act as "nootropics", take the following article for example.
Enhancement of long-term spatial memory in adult rats by the noncompetitive NMDA receptor antagonists, memantine and neramexane:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17045636
 
There are certainly signs that NMDA antagonists can act as "nootropics", take the following article for example.
Enhancement of long-term spatial memory in adult rats by the noncompetitive NMDA receptor antagonists, memantine and neramexane:

I don't suppose anyone has experience with any anti-depressant effects from NMDA antagonists (other than Ketamine)? I'm especially interested in any potential benefit from memantine, as it looks to be relatively obtainable -- but from what I've read so far, benefits (if any) don't compare to the amazing anti-depressant testimonies that ketamine seems to be getting.
 
I'm tempted to try this with PCP, though looking at the half-life on wiki (7-46 h) I'm not sure how often to dose. Maybe I'll try 1 mg insufflated twice a day, and reduce the dose if it has any noticeable 'recreational' effects.
 
by what mechanism is this ULD ketamine therapy working? are theses effects working through NMDA, or something else?
 
Would methoxetamine be expected to have the same antidepressant effect in repeated low doses?
 
I would imagine so, I've found it to have a very pleasant afterglow so most likely yes.
 
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