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Ketachloride Preparation?

slowintrepid

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
266
Ok so I've tried K a bunch of times and I quite like it. I recently tried Ketchloride which is supposedly preform K (ie before its diluted in a vial) I've noticed that this feels significantly different than traditional cooked vials of Ketamine. The substance is more crystalized and it burns when doing a bump and while strong isn't as hallucinogenic as regular K.

I was told that you can simply put it into water and cook it up either in the Microwave or on the Stove or with the Hair dryer of course.

My question is does anyone have any more info on how I'd do this? What ratio of Liquid to substance should I use? Is regular old tap water fine?

The main reason I want to do this is because I like the feeling of regular old K as it tends to be more hallucinogenic and trippy than Ketachloride.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks
 
First of all, ketamine is ketamine unless you are getting a specific isomer rather than the common racemic mixture, and it doesn't matter whether or not it has been in a vial before. There is no point to recrystalize unless you are trying to get rid of impurities. DO NOT COOK THE K AGAIN, IT IS JUST A WASTE OF TIME UNLESS YOU KNOW IT IS CUT, EVEN THEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE CUT IS SOLUBLE IN WATER, AND IF THAT IS THE CASE YOU JUST WASTED TIME.

cooking k is retarded unless you have a vial you need to evap......

KETACHLORIDE ISN'T A REAL DRUG, its a short hand for ketamine hydrochloride.....
 
Different than what? Different than the ketamine you are getting as a solid?
Well I don't know how you can be sure it's not cut but perhaps it's another isomer?

I don't know what jerzeezfinest is talking about. There is a drug called deschloroketamine that is different but what is meant by preform? Deschloroketamine is probably very rare by the way. Before K is a liquid it's just the hydrochloride salt and after you recrystallize it from liquid it's the same again. Even in liquid form it's just a solution. Nothing happened. If you'd snort enough liquid it would work the same. It's all the same and if anyone tells you differently its scientific nonsense even if they say its definitely true.

If you have the racemic at one time and the S-isomer at another time they feel differently, yes. That is a valid explanation.
They may not look entirely the same.
But what you say 'more or less crystallized' that is just an effect of the way it's crystallized: if you do it carefully and slowly drop the temperature of a saturated solution you get bigger crystals. You also get bigger crystals is you slowly evaporate the water in a microwave rather than fast. Basic crystallization theory.

Sorry, you are getting something mixed up and hearing made up terms. Something else is going on here. Different isomers or cuts.

Or, it may be another drug, ketamine with an extra chloro-group attached somewhere. The opposite of deschloroketamine which is ketamine with a removed chloro-group.

http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs2/2580/odd.htm

Ketamine. Also known as K, special K, vitamin K, and cat valium, ketamine presents a low threat to New York but is increasingly available at raves or techno parties and clubs. Ketamine is an injectable anesthetic that is approved for human and animal use. Ketamine is sold commercially and is produced in liquid, powdered, and tablet forms. The liquid form is injected intramuscularly. Liquid ketamine can be boiled into powdered ketamine, some of which is put into capsules. In its powdered form, ketamine can be mistaken for cocaine or methamphetamine and often is snorted or smoked with marijuana or tobacco products. Snorting ketamine is a practice known to ravers as bumping. According to DEA, a new form of ketamine known as keta chloride has recently been identified in New York. Keta chloride is crystallized shards of ketamine that may originate in China. No additional information is currently available.

Again: if it is ketamine like they say then it should not give a different effect unless it's an isolated isomer or a different drug than ketamine!
 
Ok well if you look at that article you just linked you'll see

According to DEA, a new form of ketamine known as keta chloride has recently been identified in New York. Keta chloride is crystallized shards of ketamine that may originate in China. No additional information is currently available.

That is exactly what I have and I am located in NYC ;) But everyone on here is saying "Ketachloride isn't an actual drug, its just short for Ketamine Hydrachloride" So what's what guys?
 
Hehe yes I already quoted that bit if you had read my post. :)

It's incomplete information, I mean inconclusive... it's also said no additional information is available. So who knows?
I already said it can be a separate ketamine isomer like S-ketamine or R-ketamine but the chloride part of the name seems like bullshit. Cloudy already said ketachloride is short for ketamine hydrochloride is ketamine . HCl is regular ketamine.

A separate isomer is a form of ketamine. Regular ketamine is racemic is 50% R-ketamine plus 50% S-ketamine. They feel differently. But they are both ketamine forms. Just molecular mirror opposites of each other.

You say that this so-called ketachloride feels differently. And the DEA makes a point out of it but they may be just spreading a rumor about a bullshit product that is just ketamine but marketed as something special.
Possibilities:
- You are imagining the differences. Drug experiences can be terribly suggestive, don't be ashamed if you have felt something like a placebo-difference.
- It's an isomer of ketamine. R or S instead of racemic.
- It's a completely new analogue of ketamine, the name implies something with a moved or added chloro group. But this is very unlikely. Additionally ketachloride means ketamine HCl and is nothing special. So it's probably on of the other possibilities.

Maybe someone else can chime in who knows more but don't expect too much out of it. Probably all there is to say has been said, no point in repeating it more times. :)

Enjoy it like it is and evaluate how it feels. And possibly be careful taking something of a sketchy nature.
 
Ketochloride is meaningless, and probably just street-branding/hype...

However there are many tales of fake K and different batches of K with significant differences.

I've got a strange batch of crystal "ketamine" that gives different mecke results, and is less psychedelic than the stuff that I got from vials. This by the way is why my RC test thread in PT Q&A doesn't have ket results in it....

212isn4.jpg


If you have some normal K cooked down from vials, and a pill test kit, test the two batches next to eachother (with all 3 standard reagents), and post your findings. If they are different, that would confirm that you got a different chemical, if they're the same, they're either both ketamine (possibly different isomer ratios) or one is a bizzare analog that gives the same results - which is of course possible.
 
Redissolving and evaporating K can be good

Crystal can sometimes be very harsh on the nose and its also wasteful due to small surface area

recooking it makes it easier to get a nice fine powder that is less harsh and less wasteful


(The above applies only to nasal use)
 
^That is entirely unnecessary. If your crystals are too big simply crush them up. Powder is simply lots and lots of really tiny crystals.
recooking it makes it easier to get a nice fine powder that is less harsh and less wasteful
'Recooking' it does nothing of the sort, one can in fact yeild even bigger crystals than before if they wanted to.
 
I got this type of k in UK a few times, one dealer even said "its not Ketamine, its that Chinese shit!" I couldn't really 'hole' on it. Was more of a body buzz, not as pleasant as K.

I also cook my K if it is like that or like shards. It becomes like talcom powder. It feels so much smoother and seems to hit harder. Possibly there is a loss of potency due to heat, but this is made up for considerably by the greater surface area of the powder.
 
^That is entirely unnecessary. If your crystals are too big simply crush them up. Powder is simply lots and lots of really tiny crystals.

'Recooking' it does nothing of the sort, one can in fact yeild even bigger crystals than before if they wanted to.

let me rephrase..."recooking it in a certain way" will yield a nice fine powder


NB - manually crushing crystals as you suggest, often yields loads of "Floor Ket" as bits go flying around the room when you try to press them.
 
That is exactly what I have and I am located in NYC ;) But everyone on here is saying "Ketachloride isn't an actual drug, its just short for Ketamine Hydrachloride" So what's what guys?

ketachloride is not an actual drug, its just short hand for ketamine hydrochloride.
This wouldnt be the first time the DEA was wrong about something.

The appearance of your K can vary depending on a few factors.
Some have suggested that the different isomers look different.
another way you can change the appearance of your K is if you have it in solution and let it air dry slowly you'll have big xtals, if you speed it up by microwaving or double boiling your ketamine wont be in bog shards but rather more powdery.

preset, postset, yada yada, its all the same shit.
ketamine is ketamine is ketachloride is ketAMINE
 
let me rephrase..."recooking it in a certain way" will yield a nice fine powder


NB - manually crushing crystals as you suggest, often yields loads of "Floor Ket" as bits go flying around the room when you try to press them.

That is easily solved by using a surface with edges.(I was once known to use a pyrex baking dish with sides that stretched several inches high. No such incedent occured :))
 
Yeah I usually put plastic over it while crushing it. Absolutely nothing to be gained from cooking it beside the risk of possibly burning it. It is very likely that you have resolved ketamine. Like others have said said it has a slightly different feel to it, but it is still the same exact drug essentially. This also explains larger crystals as a resolved compound is much more likely to form these as the lattice points are the same. You can thing of it like legos kind of. Two different shapes they won't be able to stack, same shaped legos you can build a large...well whatever the hell you like building;) It's the S(+) isomer if anything. Way better than racemic. No such thing as ketachloride though. Ketamine is ketamine is a rail up my nose.
 
Thought I'd chime in here. I have seen this ketamine in the NYC area. It has bigger crystals than when I have cooked K from vials and it is harder to crush up. The powder is more dense and burns a little but it is most certainly ketamine. It does seem to have a slightly different effect than other ketamine I've had. It strangely doesn't make me feel nauseous at all while I have gotten nausea almost every time on other K.

When I found it it was being called "preset" ketamine supposedly because it had never been in vials. Was said to be from Asia. I do wonder if it is a different isomer or something though because I too noticed a slightly different effect.
 
I have seen ketamine in disitictively different crystal shapes.. Long needle shards, round sodium carbonate looking crystals And yellowish crystals that had an odor of vanilla. The last one must have had some impurities but I don't know what was up with the first two. Is there a logical explanation for crystal shapes being different? Al of it was grade A really, even the vanilla stuff.
 
Different crystal shapes are because of different crystallization conditions or of different isomers. For different isomers it's a logical explanation although I couldn't say if it's 90% or 100% sure what isomer looks like what, plus one isomer might look like another because of different crystallization conditions! Confusing isn't it?
The lego metaphor (simile?) was mentioned: crystals are stacked molecules. Pure isomers in crystal form are the same molecules, that fit next to each other in a certain way to give them a shape seen with the naked eye. Such as cubes, rods, shards, etc.
Racemic compounds are mixes of their isomers and they fit next to each other differently, giving them another shape but not necessarily a shapeless form (amorphous / formless).

Crystallization conditions matter as well. If crystal formation is the stacking of molecules on top of or next to each other, then it matters if we do this quickly and forcefully or slowly and carefully. Generally if you do it more quickly then the stacking happens less than perfect and you get unclear messed up shaped crystals and quite importantly: small crystals. If you do it slowly and carefully you can get crystals with unmistakable form and of a larger size. Fast messed up crystallizations might therefore appear quite differently, jagged forms may look more like shards to our eyes even though it's just because on a micro scale they are formed more capriciously.

Recooking also fits in here: if bigger crystals are redissolved and recrystallized quickly by microwave / oven / double boiling then nice crystals fail to form and they will all stay pretty small (microcrystalline - powder. If we would do it super quickly then there would hardly be any crystal to speak of at all.

Ketamine that has never been in vials is not ketamine that has never been in solution, all ketamine comes from solution: to synthesize it it has to have been in the final reaction solution, but probably solvents out of which it is crystallized into nice crystals rather than the saline of vials.
 
Know this is an old post I am from Jersey in NYC quite often along with SWIM.... Who has every label possible, ketavet, Ketalar, Ketaset.... etc etc etc, they are all Ketamine Hydrochloride, Well, for those that think pre-set is not different and are genius's about K SWIM had been on K / still is for nearly 2 decades now, there is 2 types of (what is more commonly called "Base" now then preset. Preset has an awfully weak strength to it at least SWIM says so, base is going around cheap as dirt these days * a G depending on connect etc, SWIM was grabbing it at * a G for a little while. There is 2 types of base SWIM has found, one that looks exactly like salt, (literally) and one that if one was to look close it is more similar to micro rectangles. The salt looking base is very potent and tastes/acts like any of the bottled K. The second is horrid, leaves a cut like salt drip/ burn in SWIMs throat/mouth. Even I.V. with any of the above, I have found SWIM does not like the rectangle shaped K... That is what SWIM believes most are referring to as pre-set k here. It is very shardy and re-cooked and scraped properly it comes back literally in 2x the amount as well. So yeah re-cook it, takes 2 minutes in the Mic... Not that big of a deal and none is lost rather you if done well get a baby powder form back that does not burn nearly as much! The Shards can be ruthless on your nasal passages and throat, and as most will notice yeah there is more then 1 type of K floating around, most recently "MDX" is moving throughout the scene. It is less harmful to one as SWIM is one of the people that have developed Cystitus from doing to much K (for those of you that think there are no consequences etc, well look up Ketamine & Cystitus (SWIM assures everyone it is not very fun and never goes away/ have for LIFE) Not that SWIM is against K in any shape or form. Just feels it has to be semi-moderated.) Doing 1-5 grams a day for just 3-6 months one can develop cystitus. And you will know early on when it starts to become difficult to urinate. Although there is not all that many cases reported, SWIM promises you it is not something that is made up or a rumor... As Swim has had to go to the Urologist many times just to help solve the issue and alleviate the symptoms which are similar ro the worst Urinary tract infection ever! But for those of you that simply say K is K, well for the most part that is true, Ketamine Hydrochloride is Ketamine Hydrochloride. Although it comes in various strengths K is K. Someone above mentioned - It's an isomer of ketamine. R or S instead of racemic.
- It's a completely new analogue of ketamine, the name implies something with a moved or added chloro group. But this is very unlikely. Additionally ketachloride means ketamine HCl and is nothing special. So it's probably on of the other possibilities. Not unlikely as this post is quite old and so many variances have been popping up mostly coming from either India or China. Someone did explain it well as SWIM used to be furious when he heard someone got a differnt type of K etc, as He felt there is not difference except a label and possibly strength!! Today you can find many different types that are not ketamine HCL. I will posts links if someone requests them. Although I feel I wasted to much of my time already on this thread. It is just quite annoying when people give the wrong information which may lead to someone expense. Yeah pre-set hsa been going around for years, and is supposedly what has not been put in water (or" base") etc... Whatever name you get the crystalized for =m ion that has not been cooked yet, but people also need to know that it just isnt ketamine HCL floating around out there now. MDX or about 1/2 dozen different types of what is being passed off as K are readily available in the scene today. The whole placebo thing well, your an idiot if if you think you have taken K and just arent sure if your high or not, then u havent taken K. Most likely pipes or DXM or some BS that isn't K. On the east coast finding a decent pressed pill today is unreliable at best. Molly is quite prevalent and can be bought cheaply and no worries about adulterants. K is best bought in liquid as there is a reare possibility it has been tainted with other chemicals as it should have been sealed. SWIMS friend on the other hand gets bottles off the net as well as makes labels and has seals for them. Puts in 3/4 gram of base, which does shake up and is once again clear as it is pure. Base goes for those cheap prices I mentioned above as where people will pay 60-100$ for bottles nowadays as K is not as easy to come along as it was in the past. So even getting bottles (yellow label, white, red, green, blue, etc...) SWIM has seen being produced not at Fort Dodge etc, but in someones apt....
 
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We don't use 'SWIM' here, in fact it is not allowed. It won't help with anything anyway, that is a myth.

On the other hand punctuation and alinea's are very welcome - as are you... welcome to bluelight. :)

Now let me try to dig through your post, meanwhile please edit out the SWIM, alright?

So you have a few points, MDX by that I trust you mean MXE or methoxetamine / metoxetamine. About K cramps or K pains and cystitis, scarring of the bladder wall, yes they can all happen. Apparently the K cramps are at least in part due to contractions of the bile bladder.
About all the sorts of ketamine, I hate snorting a dried vial - the salt (tablesalt / NaCl) is so nasty. Other than that I have seen different crystal shapes, and I have had different isomers that had different shapes... But I would be careful to make heavy claims about being able to tell a whole lot just from looking at K.
Just like with rolls, everyone is always talking about how they are often so different and the factor of 'setting' seems to be dismissed most easily.
 
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