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What is the interaction between phenelzine and carbamazapine?

again, pa tries to come off as an intelligent troll
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Do you know the meaning of the word 'troll?' If anything, I'm trollbait, and certainly not a troll myself.


It seems to me that there simply wasn't enough research done on the subject so in the end, they just lazily stamped a drug interaction for all MAOIs and CBZ.
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Agreed. This makes me wonder how many listed drug-drug interactions are little more than a direct result of this 'laziness.'
 
Comments like this accomplish what exactly?
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I'm not so sure, though he certainly is a witty one. But confusingly, with over 4,000 posts, I've (personally) yet to see him seriously engage anyone in discussion or offer up anything other than an occasional short remark.
 
P A said:
Agreed. This makes me wonder how many listed drug-drug interactions are little more than a direct result of this 'laziness.'
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I suspect that MOST drug interactions outside of the carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine, and cimetidine craziness, oh and DXM - nasty one she is - are probably made up with a general hypothesis based on activity and action of related compounds.

Keep in mind that most SSRIs were not actually studied until they were already on the market... A perfect example is Pristiq/Desvenlafaxine and Lexapro/escitalopram.

The first is the metabolite of Effexor - and it has more side effects associated with it than Effexor did and a much higher occurrence. Clinical trials? FDA fast-tracked drug - the general public is the clinical trial.

Lexapro - Created for the sole purpose of maintaining a patent when Celexa's expired. Takes the supposedly only active part of the racemic mixture in Celexa, escitalopram, and has a completely different effects profile from Celexa.

Cymbalta/duloxetine is another FDA fast-track drug. I thing that Lyrica/Pregabalin is as well.

The amount of drugs on the market that we don't have a basic understanding of how they even work is simply astonishing to me! Its been estimated that 80% of the drugs on the market today are not effective for the condition they've been prescribed and most lead to even further problems down the road which requires yet another pill.

I try to take the least amount of pharms that I can and when I take something, I make sure it wasn't Fast-Tracked to get it out the door. Pfizer Fast-Tracked Chantix and I was a victim of that terrible drug... 3 days in, urge to smoke is insane, don't get any nicotine high when smoking, then I become suicidally depressed and start plotting my death on a piece of paper while I'm at work at Comcast...

The tyranny needs to stop!
 
Its been estimated that 80% of the drugs on the market today are not effective for the condition they've been prescribed.
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Sauce.

I suspect that MOST drug interactions outside of the carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine, and cimetidine craziness, oh and DXM - nasty one she is - are probably made up with a general hypothesis based on activity and action of related compounds.
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Well sure. But strictly theoretical interactions should be listed as such rather than confidently inscribed boldface upon the pages of the PDR and, to repeat the example, Drugs.com.
 
80% .... Asking what you have been smoking is futile at this stage.

Anti-retroviral -> Effective
MAOI -> Effective
SSRI -> Effective in some people
SNRI -> " "
Opiates -> Effective
Blood-thinners -> Effective
Barbs -> Effective (Benzos are safer)
Benzos -> Effective
Z-type drugs -> Effective
Anti-biotics -> Effective
COX inhibitors -> Effective

Basically we wouldn't be putting this stuff in our bodies if they were not effective for atleast some of the population. (~33%?)
 
Slapdragonx said:
80% .... Asking what you have been smoking is futile at this stage.

Anti-retroviral -> Effective
MAOI -> Effective
SSRI -> Effective in some people
SNRI -> " "
Opiates -> Effective
Blood-thinners -> Effective
Barbs -> Effective (Benzos are safer)
Benzos -> Effective
Z-type drugs -> Effective
Anti-biotics -> Effective
COX inhibitors -> Effective

Basically we wouldn't be putting this stuff in our bodies if they were not effective for atleast some of the population. (~33%?)
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http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-08/asa-pam081010.php

MAOI -> Mostly effective but with the possibility to have interactions with a vast amount of foods and drugs, which could result in death.
SSRI -> Proven to be almost entirely placebo and causes more damage than healing, withdrawal can cause severe and protracted withdrawal symptoms.
SNRI -> More research needs to be done but early research isn't promising and the withdrawal from these medications is worse than the withdrawals from SSRIs which are already bad enough, not to mention the huge list of side effects that these drugs bring about.
Opiates -> These aren't new drugs and have been around a long time but even these don't cure the condition, they mask it, and they cause massive addiction and withdrawal.
Blood-thinners -> Same case here - they've been around a long time but they also have a lot of side effects - don't get a big cut when you're on them, you may just bleed out all over the place.
Barbs -> Same case here and these shouldn't be included because they are already on the market - not only that but they don't TREAT the condition, they MASK it and they make it WORSE upon discontinuation of the drug including the possibility of DEATH from withdrawal.
Benzos -> Same here and see ^^
Z-drugs -> See benzos and barbs.
Anti-biotics -> Creating new super bugs every day.
Anti-retrovirals -> Highly debatable.
COX inhibitors -> Effective but tend to be much more dangerous than regular NSAID pain relievers - no long term studies to go by proving them to be effective treatments and they certainly aren't safe.
 
^^^ Seriously? Wha, you want magic bullet profiles and a 100,000:1 therapeutic ratio? I think one has to stay grounded in reality here, no?

"Antibiotics- creating new super bugs every day"

Really? You are actually going to challenge the efficacy here?
 
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@Dr. Kat

Don't you think that's a little hyperbolic? When administered correctly and judiciously applied, antiretrovirals are not really that debatable. SSRIs are effective anxiolytics (not great for primary depression, sure) with a barely significant incidence of severe withdrawal symptoms when properly tapered. The so-called 'SNRIs' currently enjoying market share do indeed appear to be utter shit for anything other than anomalous neuralgia secondary to depression, and likely depression itself. Yes, blood-thinners have an unfortunate side effect of thinning the blood. MAOI interactions rarely occur after patients have been duly informed of the gravity of fucking up. And claiming that tranquilizers, sedatives, and hypnotics only 'cover up' conditions that other chronically administered, inherently addictive drugs can somehow 'treat' is a completely meaningless tautology. Many people do quite well on long-term benzo maintenance therapy, especially when they're not idiots, don't abuse the drugs, and refuse to escalate their dosage at the first sign of mounting distress. This isn't to say that I would whole-heartedly recommend long-term benzodiazepine use to a friend; but so long as a regimen remains constant, intermittent tolerance breaks are taken, and the drugs are coadministered with a sufficient dose of an NMDA antagonist or an inducible nitric oxide synthase inhibitor, there would be little reason for serious concern. Especially not if it's the only thing that truly works.
 
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The interaction is probably pharmacokinetic (metabolic). Carbamazepine is a potent inhibitor of a CYP450 enzyme called 3A4. The documents I checked showed that phenelzine was metabolised at least partially through the same group of enzymes. I could look into it more, but can't be bothered.

Phenelzine is, potentially, one of the most dangerous psychiatric drugs available. Being a mood stabiliser, carbamazepine obviously acts on GABA, but many of these drugs (mood stabilisers) are at least partially serotonergic in their activity.

I would exercise extreme caution when combining phenelzine with any drug at all. Carbamazepine has the potential to cause clinically significant interaction with many agents via a pharmacokinetic pathway.
 
Agh! I sow a little seed one sentence long and come back hoping it had blossomed into a modest flower of enlightenment, instead in has transmutated into a steaming dog turd!! ROFL

Firstly, thanks for the replies ...so at least.

Gabalover, actually Phenelzine has been much much easier to live with than tranclopromine. I never once had a pressor reaction from phenelzine, to the contrary, i had HYPOtensive episodes often on it.
Parnate...a little bit of cheese and my heart started pounding like a jackhammer..

Your right about Carbamazapine and interactions though, the list of interactions is as long as my arm.
I am down from 4 tablets of nardil a day to one but I cant budge off the last one, I get really insanely depressed when I try.
I have also lost 11kg in 5 weeks since I started dropping the dose back.. a friend
I hadnt seen in a a couple of years commented last night how fat I had gotten....thats after the loss. The weight gain this drug causes is unreal, the more I exercised the more my appitite would increase, I became totally obsessed with food.

Anyway, I was hoping that tegrotol might help e get off it without the weight gain that every other bloody drug has.
Looks like its not worth the risk then?
 
Middleway said:
Anyway, I was hoping that tegrotol might help e get off it without the weight gain that every other bloody drug has.
Looks like its not worth the risk then?
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Well if you read the whole thread you saw there are examples of concomitant use in the literature without any problems... I would highly recommend talking to your doctor about it - if you have one, or finding one to talk to about it.
 
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