Simply Unheard Of

[iChelsea]

The story

So i have a mild case of HPPD. Visual snow, the occasional floaters, after images, colors changing hue occasionally.

Lately, I have a noticed a strange phenomenon. I have labeled it time skipping.

(Wow i feel pretty fucking powerful I named something haha)

It goes like this. Time takes two steps foward and one step back. Steps being millliseconds or whatnot. Like two miliseconds pass, then it skips back one milisecond. Not rewind, mind you, but skip.(These ratios are not accurate, just designed to help explain a concept)I made a picture to help explain.

I dont notice it very often, because its so miniscule. In fact, I only notice it in the car. My explanation of this is that the skip is very noticeable due the noticeable movement in position of the object in such a small amount of time.

The resulting effect is sort of like I am constantly "gradually zooming in and then instantly back out out of the street".

Also, if i watch this framerate animation, the white block will appear to double back very briefly.
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The theory (dont read this part if you are easily bored or dont wanna read a lot)

I've developed a theory based on my phenomenon.

1)The first point that is essential to understand is a symptom of HPPD
"HPPD subjects perceive a strobing light as being a continuous light at much lower frequencies then control subjects"

From this, we can assume that the "human eye frame rate" of HPPD persons is much lower than that of non HPPD persons.

2)The second point is an assumption made simply based on common sense and human reaction time, etc. Each "frame" of existence is a snapshot, which takes a few miliseconds to form/ be perceived.


3)The next point relates to our perception of 3dimensional space
"You are able to perceive voluminous space only because your mind fuses the two different perspectives received by your two eyes. You must move around the subject under observation and fuse an indefinite number of aspects from all sides."



From these two points I will draw the following conclusion:
Instead of perceiving two different perspectives received by my two eyes in a single snapshot, i perceive four different perspectives received by two eyes in a single snapshot, due to a skip in time.

This results in a more dimensional perception of 3 dimensional space.
For example, television screens, when viewed in high definition, appear to be realistic.

The effect is increased with cannibis use.


-----


So basically. What the fuck is going on.
Does anyone have any sort of information on this at all?

 

[Slain]

It means you're winning the human race. Should take more acid.
God's basically telling you that you're the best.

 

[iChelsea]

lol wtf?
i would take more, but my first trip involved my best friend having a seizure.
The next one induced some temporary psychosis in which i thought that the police were coming to kill me and my best friend.

im taking a break for a whileeeee

 

[freehugs]

im taking a break for a whileeeee

Good plan

 

[Slain]

Good plan

Very.

 

[iChelsea]

Do you think I'm crazy?
I can assure you I'm not.
I think if i was crazy, it would have surely affected my life somehow by now.

I mean I guess it is possible that I'm crazy. Most crazy people don't know they are crazy. But crazy people can't think rationally, and I seem to have kept that ability.

 

[F1n1shed]

It's break time, people always go on about how safe psyches are especially on this site. Well they are safe considering damage being done to neurons and in that sense. But the danger lies in the way they can change your perception so drastically. And the way that they can make you kind of loopy in your sober life, always analyzing things in a different or odd way. Also if used continually people get HPPD like symptoms, sometimes after the first trip someone will get symptoms.

 

[iChelsea]

And the way that they can make you kind of loopy in your sober life, always analyzing things in a different or odd way

Well i dont think thats nesecarily a bad thing. Isnt it good to examine something from multiple persepectives? If we didnt do that, no one would understand each other. Everyone has different personality traits that are hard to understand when taken out of context.

 

[Xorkoth]

I know exactly what you're saying... you explained it well. And no, you're clearly not crazy. It seems some people are more prone to lasting aftereffects of psychedelics than others. I have tripped a very large number of times, at times very frequently, and provided I've had a couple of days since taking a psychedelic, I can always see just fine. I'd say that if you're concerned (which you obviously are by even posting this thread), you should take a break. Generally if you have to ask... you already know the answer.

 

[Mercc96]

are you sure its not derealization or depersonalisation? I often experience something sort of like the dollyzoom/ vertigo effect used in cinema but obviously not to such degree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y48R6-iIYHs

 

[krissilasn]

I don't believe things like Visual Snow and Floaters are directly caused from psychedelics, though obviously they can trigger HPPD which in that case, visual snow and floaters would be the least of your concerns.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but ever since I can remember (2-3 years old), I was always aware of floaters in my vision and visual snow when I closed my eyes. I thought the floaters were atoms and molecules, as if I had the ability to perceive them (thoughts of my 4 year old self.) Just as when you closed your eyes you see visual snow, and I see it with my eyes open too.

As for your perception of time, I think it's irrellevent to HPPD and you are probably experiencing a mild psychosis as after effects of constant psychedelic use.

Psychedelics if used enough, will definitely keep you in dream consciousness forever. Returning to the light if you will.

That comment about winning the human race kind of clicked to me in a different way, I think HPPD is actually the physical advent of you being in between both levels of consciousness. Obviously due to the damage of neurons in your visual cortex, and quite possibly the frying of serotonin receptor sites from LSD abuse.

 

[DwayneHoover]

First point, "floaters" are actual things in the gel of your eyeball... not treatable, NOT caused by psychedelics or anything else in the brain.

Second, the paranoia, period of thinking you are being watched by police or that friends or others are plotting against you are a normal by-product of early psychedelic use that almost ALL veterans can remember experiencing. Such an episode does NOT mean you are suffering any sort of psychotic symptoms or pending schizophrenic break, haha!

They arise from the MAGNIFIED SIGNIFICANCE that psychedelics cause every thing to have... eventually you DO learn to apply your own internal filter, so that a slight little natural normally passing "worry" ideation (these sort of auto-generating-check-safety-thoughts are what keep our ancestors alert and safe in the jungle) that becomes magnified into "OMG a squad of police are surrounding the house wearing invisibility suits!!!" you learn to recognize, ignore, and even laugh at when it pops up in your silly over-excited monkey-brain. Nothing to worry about man.

 

[krissilasn]

^^

Thread.

 

[iChelsea]

First point, "floaters" are actual things in the gel of your eyeball... not treatable, NOT caused by psychedelics or anything else in the brain.

Second, the paranoia, period of thinking you are being watched by police or that friends or others are plotting against you are a normal by-product of early psychedelic use that almost ALL veterans can remember experiencing. Such an episode does NOT mean you are suffering any sort of psychotic symptoms or pending schizophrenic break, haha!

They arise from the MAGNIFIED SIGNIFICANCE that psychedelics cause every thing to have... eventually you DO learn to apply your own internal filter, so that a slight little natural normally passing "worry" ideation (these sort of auto-generating-check-safety-thoughts are what keep our ancestors alert and safe in the jungle) that becomes magnified into "OMG a squad of police are surrounding the house wearing invisibility suits!!!" you learn to recognize, ignore, and even laugh at when it pops up in your silly over-excited monkey-brain. Nothing to worry about man.

That really helpful thanks. Cause it scared the pants off of me and i was getting kinda scared i was becoming paranoid schizophrenic or something.

I don't believe things like Visual Snow and Floaters are directly caused from psychedelics, though obviously they can trigger HPPD which in that case, visual snow and floaters would be the least of your concerns.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but ever since I can remember (2-3 years old), I was always aware of floaters in my vision and visual snow when I closed my eyes. I thought the floaters were atoms and molecules, as if I had the ability to perceive them (thoughts of my 4 year old self.) Just as when you closed your eyes you see visual snow, and I see it with my eyes open too.

As for your perception of time, I think it's irrellevent to HPPD and you are probably experiencing a mild psychosis as after effects of constant psychedelic use.

Psychedelics if used enough, will definitely keep you in dream consciousness forever. Returning to the light if you will.

That comment about winning the human race kind of clicked to me in a different way, I think HPPD is actually the physical advent of you being in between both levels of consciousness. Obviously due to the damage of neurons in your visual cortex, and quite possibly the frying of serotonin receptor sites from LSD abuse.

I honestly don't believe in "insanity"
For some reason, people have this generalized idea that crazy people "don't think the way we do" I think that since schizophrenic people hallucinate and time skips around for them, they react to it in a normal manner. If you saw all the crazy shit they see, you would react in the same way. They still think exactly the same way, they are just literally in a different reality.

And the thing about being between both levels of consciousness, that makes total sense to me. That basically what HPPD is. Also why do you state that there is an obvious reason? I thought the cause of HPPD was a mystery, but I could be wrong.

are you sure its not derealization or depersonalisation? I often experience something sort of like the dollyzoom/ vertigo effect used in cinema but obviously not to such degree

I do have both of those symptoms, but I'm quite positive my description of the event is quite accurate. I am going to attempt to make a video. Do you only have this affect in the car as well? or just randomly? does the object have to be moving?

 

[krissilasn]

You can't just neglect physical toxicity of the brain with philosophical perception of a schizophrenics personality. Kind of feels like denial that a psychedelic caused you(well, your neurons) some damage.

I completely understand what you're postulating. That those with HPPD are simply enlightened and reside on a different plane of consciousness. I wish.

That's sadly just not the truth bro. I've done some higher 5-MeO-MiPT doses of 40+mg and I'm noticing slight fluidity a month later. The lessons learnt obviously stuck from that experience but it cost me some neurons

So you could be right, those with HPPD are enlightened cause it triggered from such a high dose of psychedelic stimuli, that the consciousness they were exposed to during that trip ascended them at that price.

But we all know that isn't how it is.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I dont buy that lingering effect from psychedelics or MDMA are due to "toxicity" or death of neurons. NO ONE, repeat ***NO ONE*** has scientifically proven anything of this kind of cause/effect relationship in live human subjects. ENTIRELY speculation.

FAR FAR more reasonable explanation is that the brain is an ENORMOUSLY PLASTIC LEARNING MACHINE, and such strong unusual experiences with substances that so radically alter its functioning far beyond "normal" modes just simply cause it to "learn" new and possibly strange or odd functional characteristics, such as seeing tracers for weeks afterwards, or a more "expanded", "cosmic" pattern of thinking, or whatever.

It's NOT damage or toxicity... just your brain LEARNING new and different ways to function. You gotta PROVE those changes are caused by "nerve damage." THAT is the unlikelier hypotheses, in need of more solid evidence, man.

The brain is REALLY REALLY REALLY efficient at altering receptor/neuron substructure connections and weights. These kind of changes can occur almost instantly. Certainly within hours, which are the timeframe of forming long-term memories from working memory contents. Would you call the formation of long term memories as due to "damage" or "toxicity"?

 

[any major dude]

Alot of what many people call HPPD seems to be enhanced or hyper-awareness of normally occurring visual phenomenon. I tend to notice floaters a lot immediately after a trip, but this fades within 24-36hrs, generally. If i overdo it or use frequently, it lasts a bit longer, maybe up to 72hrs. Some people do have lingering morphing & patterning, & that, IMHO, is HPPD, except when its contingent upon usage of d-amph (or something similar) and/or cannabis. Visual changes pursuant to drug use are exactly that. If someone were having true hallucinations after taking aspirin, I'd have to revise my statement, but i don't see that happening...

And in regards to what Dwayne said, change ≠ damage. However, these things aren't mutually exclusive either.

Lastly, psychedelics are known for their ability to break down barriers that we set up for ourselves to make everyday functioning more habitual & automatic. I don't think extrapolating that to include which parts of visual processing make it into our conscious mental workspace is an unreasonable assumption. For visual information to be immediately useful, the brain must filter out lots of incoming data that isn't of importance, floaters & the like definitely fall into this category. The mechanism by which psyche's alter vision is far from fully understood, but the temporary disengaging of these types of "filters" does seem to be a substantial part of this visual alteration.

 

[toocoolforschool]

lol i called it the durdan effect, after the some what similar occurance to tyler durdan in the movie fight club. it happened to me between hours 4-18 in my experience with 8mg DOI. it is possible(but highly unlikely) that your acid DOI or a related compound. how long was the come up? DOI had a sort of initial uplift at TOA, slight bump at 15 min then again at 50 min then the actual halucinogenic effecst rolled in around 2.5 hrs progressing to that durdanish state around hour 4. if there was a verry long energetic come up with side effects lasting 2-3 days afterwardand havingvisuals some what mushroomlike on the seccond and third day.

the only way i could explain that feeling is like this: your driving down a road and you get to the half way point then... your driving down a road and you get about 10 feet further then you think you went last time then... your driving down a road and you almost get to the end then... your driving down the road from about the middle then...ect

it's quite frustrating i might say, especialy if you are legatimately trying to acomplish some thing.

 

[bluffythefluffy]

Drugs are illegal and quite a few agencies are fond of capturing and imprisoning drug-users; this may account for much of the stereotypical paranoia associated with the use of mind-altering substances.

As for long-lasting changes in perception, these are to be expected. The whole point of psychedelics is to provide a dramatic change in perceived reality. Having different emotions regarding life, or new thoughts about the nature of perceptual stimuli, or noticing new visual manifestations of the physical world does not necessarily constitute a mental illness.

Any intense experience has the possibility of changing the neural networks that make up our brains.

Moderation is definitely recommended in the use of psychedelics, despite the lack of clear proof of damage-potential, because the desired results can definitely be achieved with limited usage. Better safe than sorry.

 

[iChelsea]

You can't just neglect physical toxicity of the brain with philosophical perception of a schizophrenics personality. Kind of feels like denial that a psychedelic caused you(well, your neurons) some damage.

I completely understand what you're postulating. That those with HPPD are simply enlightened and reside on a different plane of consciousness. I wish.

That's sadly just not the truth bro. I've done some higher 5-MeO-MiPT doses of 40+mg and I'm noticing slight fluidity a month later. The lessons learnt obviously stuck from that experience but it cost me some neurons

So you could be right, those with HPPD are enlightened cause it triggered from such a high dose of psychedelic stimuli, that the consciousness they were exposed to during that trip ascended them at that price.

But we all know that isn't how it is.

1) I am not in denial. I am perfectly aware that my neurons MAY have possibly retained some damage. However, I am a pretty relaxed person. The depersonalization/derealization are cruddy, however I am just thankful for what I have. I see no reason to complain, i see this as an opportunity because I am actually interested in psychadelic research as a career choice.

2)I could be right. But you know that im not. How do you know this? I either could be right, or I couldn't. It can't be both.

Keeping an open mind is critical when facing the unknown.


----

I dont buy that lingering effect from psychedelics or MDMA are due to "toxicity" or death of neurons. NO ONE, repeat ***NO ONE*** has scientifically proven anything of this kind of cause/effect relationship in live human subjects. ENTIRELY speculation.

FAR FAR more reasonable explanation is that the brain is an ENORMOUSLY PLASTIC LEARNING MACHINE, and such strong unusual experiences with substances that so radically alter its functioning far beyond "normal" modes just simply cause it to "learn" new and possibly strange or odd functional characteristics, such as seeing tracers for weeks afterwards, or a more "expanded", "cosmic" pattern of thinking, or whatever.

It's NOT damage or toxicity... just your brain LEARNING new and different ways to function. You gotta PROVE those changes are caused by "nerve damage." THAT is the unlikelier hypotheses, in need of more solid evidence, man.

The brain is REALLY REALLY REALLY efficient at altering receptor/neuron substructure connections and weights. These kind of changes can occur almost instantly. Certainly within hours, which are the timeframe of forming long-term memories from working memory contents. Would you call the formation of long term memories as due to "damage" or "toxicity"?

The plastic learning machine, I've never heard that before. But it makes a lot of sense to me.
Right now that seems like the most plausible explanation.

Alot of what many people call HPPD seems to be enhanced or hyper-awareness of normally occurring visual phenomenon. I tend to notice floaters a lot immediately after a trip, but this fades within 24-36hrs, generally. If i overdo it or use frequently, it lasts a bit longer, maybe up to 72hrs. Some people do have lingering morphing & patterning, & that, IMHO, is HPPD, except when its contingent upon usage of d-amph (or something similar) and/or cannabis. Visual changes pursuant to drug use are exactly that. If someone were having true hallucinations after taking aspirin, I'd have to revise my statement, but i don't see that happening...

And in regards to what Dwayne said, change ≠ damage. However, these things aren't mutually exclusive either.

Lastly, psychedelics are known for their ability to break down barriers that we set up for ourselves to make everyday functioning more habitual & automatic. I don't think extrapolating that to include which parts of visual processing make it into our conscious mental workspace is an unreasonable assumption. For visual information to be immediately useful, the brain must filter out lots of incoming data that isn't of importance, floaters & the like definitely fall into this category. The mechanism by which psyche's alter vision is far from fully understood, but the temporary disengaging of these types of "filters" does seem to be a substantial part of this visual alteration.

Well i stopped using psychadelics around a month ago. Letters twist and bend me sometimes, and things seem to morph.
Also, I have a lot of derealization, and a slight amount of depersonalisation.

One common description is like "living in a dream." Maybe thats because we are, in a sense. Our reality is defined by our subjective view of reality.