• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Best drug for sleep other than benzos or z drugs?

Very true, I have a very good tolerance for benzos and have recently just started using ambien and it is whole different animal though its short acting as chit.

They are very well cross tolerant...

But here is the thing... Ambien and the other "Z" drugs effect more strongly on the hypnotic portion of the benzodiazepine receptors.

If you have a sufficient benzodiazepine tolerance, Ambien is a walk in the park.
 
Ambien and the other Z-drugs are selective to GABA_A_alpha1
so even if you have super benzo tolerance ambien should still sedate you somewhat, just not as much as someone who has no benzo tolerance.

But, like benzos, you can then build up a tolerance to ambien and z-drugs, as your GABA_A_alpha1 receptors start to become less responsive.
 
Ambien and the other Z-drugs are selective to GABA_A_alpha1
so even if you have super benzo tolerance ambien should still sedate you somewhat, just not as much as someone who has no benzo tolerance.

But, like benzos, you can then build up a tolerance to ambien and z-drugs, as your GABA_A_alpha1 receptors start to become less responsive.

This means that you have to dose higher, also run out early...:(
 
The NyQuil Cough Syrup- the one with DXM and Doxylaminesuccinate as the only two ingredients will knock your ass out good. You can take the recommended dose and get knocked out. Works every time for me at least.
 
have you thought of an opiate?

perhaps not oxycodone as its rather stimulating, but hydrocodone, dihydrocodone, codeine, or if you have it morphine(has stronger sedative effects).

problem is they're not very good at keeping you asleep, but if you wake up i guess you could take more. or you can nod off and watch the clouds in the sky if you have a window seat.
 
Right, I meant that the benzos also target semi-unselectively the other alpha subunits of the GABA_A receptor.

So, yes there is cross tolerance, but you should, in theory, see more sedation from a Z-drug, compared to your standard benzo dose simply because the Z-drug is only targeting alpha1. Where as say for klonopin, only some of the drug will hit the alpha 1 sub receptor. So there is definitely cross tolerance, but if you already have a large benzo tolerance it seems as, if sedation is all you are looking for, then a Z-drug is more economical than just taking a massive benzo dose.

But it may be better to explore other non benzo-receptor drugs such as different anti-histamines (Aceprometazine, Doxylamine [in a larger than normal dose from my experience], Benadryl in a large dose [but not large enough to induce delirum])
 
thanks for all for replies,much appreciated :)

to all those who suggest doxylamine,as ive mentioned in previous posts on this thread - i have already tried that at a dose of 150mg and it was unsuccessful :(

which is the most sedating variety of kratom?

thanks again.
 
Imo, I wouldn't bother with kratom. If anti-histamines aren't working nor are benzos or z-drugs, then there seems to be some other problem happening. I doubt kratom will be any different.

I'd say the two most standard routes of sedation are through GABA-A_alpha1 (barbituates, benzos, ambien, lunesta, etc) and Histamine H_1 (benadryl, phenothiazine, doxylamine, aceprometazine) [though these last few probably also affect acetocholine receptors as well (antagonist?) and maybe some others too.]
 
Carisoprodol is excellent for sleep, 2 or 3 of them knock me out quite readily.
 
rozerem and valerian root

I know a lot of people hate rozerem because it lacks that knockout factor. However it acts on to mu recepters in the brain specific to sleep and this is nothing that melatonin can do. It eases you in and sort of resets your circadian clock if you will. In low stim environments it eases you down comfortablely but you have to take it everyday for it to continue its work. Its hella expensive though so having a back up plan of benzos or z drugs would help
 
Sorry...temazepam is a benzo, just a very strong one that my doc said would work better than milder benzo's because of tolerance.
 
Carisoprodol is excellent for sleep, 2 or 3 of them knock me out quite readily.

he said he wanted to avoid benzos, and carisoprodol is a GABAergic similar to benzos(although not as fun imo).

when trying to get off benzos you want to avoid all drugs with similar mechanisms like carisoprodol, alcohol, barbiturates, meprobamate, z-drugs, etc.
 
seeing as how you want to avoid benzos, z-drugs, and opiates; and the strongest sedative antihistamine(doxylamine) doesn't help, then i'd look into some herbal sedatives. they may or may not put you out, but they're definately worth a shot. the key to an effective herbal remedy is to combine different herbs to acheive a synergistic sedative effect.

here's what i think would work:

first, i want to mention the drug phenibut. it is not a herbal sedative but unlike benzos, z-drugs, barbiturates, alcohol, etc. phenibut acts on the GABA-b part of the GABA complex. it takes a while to fully kick in(can be hours) but when it does it is an effective sedative. it can be found OTC in vitamin shoppes, drugstores, nutritional stores, etc.

second, there herbal sedatives. like i said, the key is to combine them for a stronger effect as these herb's sedative effects are mild. ones to look for include valerian, skullcap, passionflower, kava, hops, and many more. the herbs valerian, skullcap, and kava are weak GABAergics with actions that resemble benzodiazepines but to a much lesser extent.

however combine all the herbs listed above(that are very easy to obtain) in decent amounts and you'll get an effect that resembles that of a low dose of a weaker benzo(once again these herbs are mild sedatives, don't expect valerian or kava to knock you out like whisky & seconal).

*now i saw kratom being mentioned. if you want to avoid opiates, i'd avoid kratom. although no opiates are present in the plant it does affect opioid receptors like an opiate would(not like morphine or oxycodone, but similar to codeine or dihydrocodone). kratom is pretty much vicodin disguised as an exotic plant.
 
When I got my first psychotic episode five years ago, I was prescribed risperidone for my mental problems. When I took the first 1 mg dose, I was very sedated and had to immediately go to sleep (fortunately I was at home). If OP doesn't want to take antipsychotics, he might try GHB.
 
Kava is not weak... It all depends on dosage.

Enough kava can render a person unconscious.
But standard doses in vitamin shops are way too weak. You gotta take a lot more.

Or you get the tincture and put half of that bottle in you favorite beverage, and you will be amazed.
 
Whoever mentioned Rozorem, I'm sure you meant that it acts on the MT receptors. You said Mu receptors which makes me think Mu as in Mu-Opioid receptors. I think you may be mistaken there but I could be wrong. I believe it simply acts at the MT 1,2 receptors.


Rozorem is designed to be more selective than melatonin. Melatonin affects the same receptors (MT 1,2, and 3) but Rozorem is designed to be selective towards MT 1,2; this action is thought to make it more useful in inducing sleep (though its not quite clear that is the case) MT 3 doesn't really affect sleep so by selectively binding to MT 1,2 you are theoretically increasing the efficacy of the drug but not necessarily increasing the chemicals ability to make you sleep.
 
Top