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Treating methamphetamine-induced anxiety with valproic acid

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^ Seriously? This is ADD, not The Lounge.

vanboy5 said:
Yes I see that less than 50% of VLP is metabolised by the liver, however, with all due respect do you have any research to back that up?
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You're kidding right? You took the time to see how much is metabolized in the liver, but not to check whether it causes liver damage??

PMID: 1432377, 3939742, 1491708, 3131628, 1502010

Those were the first five I saw. I'm sure I could pull over a hundred with minimal effort.

So yes, anything metabolised by the liver could cause hepatotxicity at high enough doses. VLP could be toxic to the liver as with any other drug hepatically metabolized... is that your point?
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No. It's getting really hard not to include a few insults when you say things as unbelievably stupid as this. Valproate's hepatoxicity is about as well known as lithium's nephrotoxicity.

The stupidest part of this whole thing is that you're apparently taking this drug without even a basic understanding of what risks it poses.

Does he? where?
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Read the thread

since you were to lazy to look before you asked, I'll have to quote it for you.

"-Benzodiazepines behave similarly to valproate, and are thus also desirable in their "interaction"" (nonsense, by the way)
 
"-Benzodiazepines behave similarly to valproate, and are thus also desirable in their "interaction"" (nonsense, by the way)
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Yet again: for all [of Van's] intents and purposes they're both GABAergics. The anxiolysis elicited by both drugs is largely mediated by GABA-A receptor-effected chloride influx. Thus, when properly dosed, the two exhibit synergy, and presumably, some degree of cross-tolerance. Though the former is clear, the latter is a mere theoretical hedge made out of basic conservatism on my part. Like I mentioned in response to your other premature argumentative ejaculations in the 'recreational efavirenz' thread, you should probably try actually reading my posts before responding so emphatically, as opposed to your aggressive knee-jerk style of debate.

Or would you prefer that I ramble on about the mechanistic intricacies of the benzodiazepines at the GABA receptor complex in response to the original question posed (that is, whether valproate substitution and/or augmentation of benzodiazepines would be a safe, effective strategy for combating the tweaky discomfort that accompanies meth use)? I gather that you're some kind of student/specialist in the natural sciences - while that may be kewl and everything, I have to warn you: not everyone else is. Claiming that valproate and, say, diazepam cause sedation by altering the same chemical pathway is in no way disingenuous nor inaccurate, especially when mentioned in the company of the less pharmacologically learned.

liver damage
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Those were the first five I saw. I'm sure I could pull over a hundred with minimal effort.
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Oh, yes! You win the prize!

Liver complications fall under a larger corpus of medical and pharmacologic properties known as "side effects." When found to be statistically significant, these potential adverse events are conveniently placed squarely upon the product label by the manufacturer of the offending agent and often mentioned by physicians and pharmacists, allowing the everyday patient to conveniently eschew the drudgery of PubMed queries, in case you weren't aware. Did you know that I could run a search containing "diazepam" and "amnesia" and receive many more results than you did with yours? Perhaps "methamphetamine" and "heart" might yield yet more horrifying revelations!

Though I can't assure you in full confidence, I sincerely believe that if Van were to present with signs of liver failure, or any symptoms of generalized illness, he would have the common sense to either immediately discontinue any putatively offending drugs, or at the very least, see a licensed healthcare practitioner and inquire as to both the status of his health and what complications, if any, might involve his current regimen. As Van has as yet shown no palpable signs of utter stupidity, I just take the above for granted. You apparently do not.

I told you!
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As I can only assume this trite, impish little jeer among the handful you've so cogently contributed is directed covertly at me, I sit at my keyboard wondering what it could possibly propound or imply. That you've been in any way correct about anything at all in this thread aside from your mechanistic Wiki-dump of a collection of valproate's laundry list of neurologic effects and isolated tidbits of (sometimes questionable) health advice, e.g. vitamin supplementation? Feel free to reply with your thoughts, or, as I would strongly prefer, don't.
 
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Someone is very aggravated.

The risk of heptatoxicity is probably roughly the same as the risk of atypical anti-psychotics causing high blood sugar levels. Basically a blood test every 1-2 months is highly recommended.
 
The risk of heptatoxicity is probably roughly the same as the risk of atypical anti-psychotics causing high blood sugar levels.
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Oh? Probably roughly basically maybe? To momentarily digress: I wasn't aware that the incidence of metabolic disturbances among neuroleptic-treated patients has been anywhere close to fully elucidated, let alone capable of being used as a comparative measuring stick. In fact, if I recall, it's a matter of sizable controversy - I've seen numbers from ranging 3% all the way up to >30. Not to mention the prickly confounds of a decidedly unhealthy requisite sample (scizophrenics often smoke and drink, for example) and the hazy issue of separating causation from both causal proximity (e.g. the drugs are well known to increase appetite--->weight gain--->hyperglycemia--->insulin resistance) and baseline indices of disease state (greater incidence of abdominal obesity among unmedicated schizophrenics as compared to matched controls; see link).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11791159?dopt=Abstract

Also, since typical anxiolytic doses are lower than those used for epilepsy by a factor of two, I honestly don't consider the already minor concern of liver toxicity particularly fidget-worthy. Caution is generally only explicitly indicated for patients under the age of two, suffer from illnesses of retardation, or are coadministering other hepatotoxic drugs. One of Hammilton's linked papers cited an incidence of 1 in 10,000, with a grand total of ~80 reported cases as of its writing. Not exactly of prime concern.

PMID: 1432377, 3939742, 1491708, 3131628, 1502010
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Lawl. In leftward proceeding order: I highly doubt that Van is, alternately, an old guy, a severely retarded infant, or a 1 in 10,000 statistic.
 
Hammilton said:
^ Seriously? This is ADD, not The Lounge.

You're kidding right? You took the time to see how much is metabolized in the liver, but not to check whether it causes liver damage??
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I am not kidding, and yes I did. VPL can indeed cause liver damage. I didn't say it didn't. I asked you for references.


Hammilton said:
No. It's getting really hard not to include a few insults when you say things as unbelievably stupid as this. Valproate's hepatoxicity is about as well known as lithium's nephrotoxicity.

The stupidest part of this whole thing is that you're apparently taking this drug without even a basic understanding of what risks it poses.
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I just spoke a psychiatrist over the phone. According to him (I will provide his reference upon request), yes, conventional practice is to monitor a patient's liver for the first six months on VPL. However, considering the dosages I'm taking (which I stated earlier, in case you were too lazy to look it up), even also my entire regimen, he is not convinced it would post any short-term threats (under 3 months). If you think valproate's hepatotoxcity is so infamously well-known, then I shall respect your very stupid subjective point of view, and defend your right to state it.

^Seriously, this is after all ADD, not BDD.

Hammilton said:
Read the thread

since you were to lazy to look before you asked, I'll have to quote it for you.

"-Benzodiazepines behave similarly to valproate, and are thus also desirable in their "interaction"" (nonsense, by the way)
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Thank you for pointing out that P A was referring to the fact that valproate and benzos both effect different GABA receptors. Your quotation was taken out of context, which in it self is nonsense, by the way.
 
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bush-abdullah-holding-hands.jpg
 
In every way this place becomes more like TOTSE.

no wonder murphy left for darker pastures...
 
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