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Ketamine induced Grand Mal Seizures

Blossom

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
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SF
Hey all! Hope this finds itself in the right place because bluelighters I have a conundrum.

In the last week, I have witnessed two of my friends have grand mal seizures after taking (IM) shots of ketamine. We are getting fairly pure (we believe) ketamine, and I am concerned...

Last week a friend IM-ed an unknown dose of Ketamine and began to seize...we took it to believe he had just done too much, however tonight I saw the same activity...I asked my friend to confirm how much K he did and was told 100mgs which is not an abormally high dose.

EDIT: I did some more research today, and it appears that Ketamine has anticonvulsant properties, so it doesn't make sense its the ketamine.
 
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Hey all! Hope this finds itself in the right place because bluelighters I have a conundrum.

In the last week, I have witnessed two of my friends have grand mal seizures after taking (IM) shots of ketamine. We are getting fairly pure (we believe) ketamine, and I am concerned...

Last week a friend IM-ed an unknown dose of Ketamine and began to seize...we took it to believe he had just done too much, however tonight I saw the same activity...I asked my friend to confirm how much K he did and was told 100mgs which is not an abormally high dose.

EDIT: I did some more research today, and it appears that Ketamine has anticonvulsant properties, so it doesn't make sense its the ketamine.

Sensitive individuals seem to have a variety of different effects...

A lot of drugs that are used to prevent seizures can actually cause them...
 
Probaly the NMDA receptors got so desensitized over time that once sober the glutamate impulse was enough to start a seizure. It happends so with benzos too after discontinuation.

Are you sure he started to seize while high on it? Are you sure he didn't take anything else?
Could it be that he took another NMDA antagonist drug (like amantadine) without him knowing?
 
Are you guys getting sealed vials? Seems unlikely that 2 different people would have seizures from the same batch unless there is something wrong with it. I would be doubting the purity at this point and worried about what the person used to dilute it for a quick buck. I've seen hundreds of people do K over the years and have only ever seen one person have a seizure. You guys should really pick up a milligram scale, I mean they only cost like $30 for a cheap one. If you can afford a couple Gs of K you can afford a scale. Well be careful, maybe send a sample to be tested.
 
Seizures are not a normally reported side effect of ketamine... I would be suspicious. It can cause twitchy muscle movements, but it should never be anything like a full on grand mal seizure.
 
NMDA antagonists are indeed potent anticonvulsants. While ketamine is among the more well-known and most-used of these drugs, it may be a special case in this regard. I think the title of this paper puts it fittingly:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T0N-479KRCV-2B3&_user=9973060&_coverDate=01/31/1981&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1569750661&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=9973060&md5=6c9f3ab3fafa4378771eac8032aa5e30&searchtype=a

However, for most intents and purposes, both within research settings and without, ketamine differs little from its mechanistic cousins in effect. Either the shit you're shooting isn't ketamine, or your friends share some nameless quality in common from which much of the rest of humankind doesn't appear to suffer. I assume [hope] they've recovered and all is well, but I'd strongly advise that you cease use altogether and either critically scrutinize the "ketamine's" quality as mentioned by TripMore, look into any alternative explanations for the seizures, or just toss what's most likely not ketamine into the nearest available dumpster (or, if you prefer the ever-prevalent water-contamination route, toilet).
 
To really fully understand this seemingly unlikely conundrum, it's a good idea to search for similar situations in other drugs which share the same characteristics of Ketamine. Ketamine used to be my absolute drug of choice throughout the last year or so. I too have suffered from grand mal seizures on two separate occasions, both occurring after extended binges with Ketamine. In these binges, I would typically snort anywhere from 350-750mg of Ketamine in a day, over the course of 3 or 4 days, usually with little to no sleep and without proper nutrition/eating. The thing that sticks with me still today, and has led me to research this phenomena is that the seizures didn't occur during the intoxication, but rather 5-8 hours after reaching sobriety at the end of the binge. The Ketamine was 100% uncut, because I was buying sealed vials from a vet source. After reading up some, I came to find that the most reasonable explanation for this was withdrawal from Ketamine, and extended use of high-doses of ketamine on multiple occasions within a small time-frame. Keep in mind these binges happened frequently, cuz I just couldn't get enough of the stuff, and the supply was endless. So let's break this down.

We know that Ketamine is a dissociative drug. Just from this information, we can deduce that Ketamine may very well cause seizures within it's very usage. Why? The answer lies within two relatives of Ketamine: DXM and PCP.
a) DXM: Drug Forums
-From this article, they cite DXM's potential as an anti-convulsant (like ketamine) in rats. However, they found that in high doses it becomes a pro-convulsant. Also, they found that seizures were reported when moderate doses (300mg) were delivered in two sessions apart from eachother.
b) PCP: Erowid
-Even when simply researching the effects of PCP, seizures are noted as a side-effect in high doses.

So now, to further strengthen this hypothesis, let's dig a little deeper. What do all three of these compounds have in common? They're dissociatives, yes, but more importantly, they are all NMDA receptor antagonists. This is a very crucial aspect to acknowledge. Upon quick research you'll find that there are other NMDA receptor antagonists also known to cause seizures, such as MK-801, Tiletamine, and Methadone. Methadone was the big eye opener for me on this quest, because I know nurses/doctors at methadone clinics will strongly advise against suddenly stopping methadone treatment because it is very possible that seizures will occur. The reason this sticks out is because methadone does not produce dissociating effects, but instead, opiate-like effects. One does not have seizures from actual opiate withdrawals, but methadone does not act on the brain in the same manner as opiates. ITS A NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST. So now we can draw the conclusion that ketamine and other dissociative drugs don't necessarily promote seizure-like activity because of their effects, but because of how they work on the brain.

That's the summary of my firm stance on the subject. If you need more convincing, here's a few more angles for you:
1) Think of it this way, opiates are pain relievers. However, over extended use of high doses of opiates, you'll find that when you come off of opiates, you are actually in pain if you weren't before, or in worse pain if you were. Apply this to Ketamine. Ketamine is an anti-convulsant. However, over extended use of high doses of Ketamine, you actually exhibit convulsions if you didn't before, or worse if you have. Doesn't that kinda make sense?
2) Drugs are not the only factor in the occurrence of seizures, even in instances where there use leads to seizures. Remember that you and your friends have used Ketamine on multiple occasions without this happening. Other factors such as: Stress, Sleep Deprivation, Malnutrition, and contraindications from other combinations of chemical substances play a key role in the stability of your seizure threshold. When I had my seizures, I had been up for about 2 days, using minimum doses of 125-150mg of Ketamine at a time. The second time I had also been using Methamphetamine and alcohol.
3) The dissociating effects of Ketamine are caused by the brain blocking singles sent from your body to your brain. You can still output messages from your brain to your body, but your brain will not receive the response from the body. This explains the numbing effect of Ketamine on the body, as well as the lack of motor coordination, the stiffness of the body, the the lack of association with your overall body's existence. It kind of just seems right to think that seizures could result from a drug which tampers with the brain-body communication so heavily.

Overall, I would definitely suggest to your friends to heavily consider this information in relation to Ketamine. After my first seizure I had no intention of quitting my use. I definitely cut back tremendously, but it took me a second seizure to really understand how powerful that drug is in the body. I have since used Ketamine one time, snorting 2-200mg lines, and experienced no ill effects. However, in this situation I spent alot of time thinking about how stable I was with nutrition, sleep, and stress, and knew that I should definitely not even touch the drug but once every 2-4 weeks if anything. I would really just altogether stop use, because my mental/physical health isn't worth a drug when the threat is that heavy. Remember seizures cause brain damage. You never know what seizures gonna turn you retarded. Be careful, and I hope this has helped you!
 
The only time I ever had anything resembling a "seizure" (or even heard of it) was after a dose of ~7mg plugged 2c-e and combined with maybe 200mg ketamine, perhaps cannabis too... I started feeling the really strong "head rush" feeling of the vagal reflex while meditating/closing my eyes after the initial peak (2c-e t+0, ketamine T+1h, fainting t+1.45h), and woke up in a crumpled mess on the floor with my chair flipped over feeling the familiar buzzing sensation of low cerebral blood pressure.

I wrote it off as a symptom of sensory overload/vagal hypersensitivity from the 2c-e. I've never heard of ketamine causing seizures either before or after dosing - nor have I heard of NMDA withdrawal causing seizures, and this incident has yet to recur...

as for PCP causing seizures I think it's worthwhile to note that these drugs are also moderate to strong dopamine reuptake inhibitors and sigma agonists ... both cocaine and methamphetamine are too. Those are known to cause seizures as well...
 
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