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the bluelight preconception, pregnancy and parenting l337ness thread

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As usual, ocean is the voice of reason IMO.

It is incredibly ridiculous to blanketedly judge people as 'selfish', 'lazy' or 'bordering on child neglect' for choosing formula over breast milk (especially considering I know a lot of the people commenting here are NOT parents yet). There are many reasons outside of medical issues or otherwise why people choose formula... many of which I don't see selfish at all. I hope I can easily breast-feed my kids when I have them but if not I'm not going to turn my kids over to the fucking child protective services. My mother breast-fed me. I appreciate her for it but I wouldn't hold it against her if she ended up deciding not to. I'm sure I'd be pretty OK. Seriously.

I'm not trying to point fingers at any specific contribution here but I really don't think it's that big of a deal to choose formula.
 
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Yea, I agree that if you are unable to do it you cant beat yourself up over it. you always do your best for you kid, give them everything you got and thats all you can do. I hate to think of a mom out there who cant breastfeed for medical reasons or w/ever, who is sittin there crying every day becuz she wants so bad to be able to do that for her baby and cant. That aint the way it should be, and that pain of feeling like you didnt do the best you could for your kid, that overwhelming guilt is a terrible feeling that can eat you up inside. a mom who aint able to breast feed her baby dont deserve to be feeling that becuz she is just doing her best and I would never have a damn thing to say about it.

I made my opinions pretty clear so i dont mean to go off on it. and I aint tryna put people down, I guess i just feel like its very difficult to justify choosing not to becuz "i just carried him for 9 months, geez, i deserve a break!" It aint like breast feeding is this horrible super time consuming awful annoying pain in the ass thing that is a terrible inconvenience. Yea, you got to feed your baby slightly more often when you dont bottle feed them. babies eat a lot.

I just feel like damn, on the grand scheme of things you do for your kid, this one aint a really huge sacrifice. I personally dont see why it gotta be a sacrifice at all but different women got different priorities. These days i notice more and more a kind of trend towards the "hey, forget about the kid for a minute how about me?" type mentality. its becoming a lot more common for women to be more concerned about themself and their needs/wants. which aint all bad--the "martyr mom" can be negative in many ways and aint healthy, moms do need to make sure they take care of themselfs so they can do their best taking care of their baby for sure

. But i have heard women say all kind of shit lately that reflects the more self oriented kind of views that are getin more common these days, that aint about making sure they are taken care of so they can take care of their kid, but is more just about feeling that they dont deserve to have to make sacrifices for their baby and it aint fair that they are expected to, etc. I feel that to some extent, thats the type of thinking that the whole "not breast feeding just becuz you been carryin your baby this long so you deserve a break" attitude goes along with. I don think its awfully, horribly selfish and evil or nothing, but i do feel that yea, it is slightly selfish to justify your choice not to with a reason like that.

i agree with the posters who said that hey, youre a mom now, it aint about you. being a mom is making sacrifices, thats how it is, and while i dont think its fair for a woman to be expected to be a total self denying saint, i think that something like this, that really has very few if any negative effects on a mother, is all that much of a sacrifice, and if you view it as one and aint willing to make it, i dont understand that thinking.

Sure, If its something that involves a frivolous pleasure for your child or a serious need for yourself, yea, you should take care of yourself in that situation. But something like this, that does so much good for the baby and so little bad (if any) for you, cant just be rationalized away on some "Well i want to make life easier for myself!" type shit.

Anyways, Ocean, this might interest you. I have read a new study that show that the DHA added to the baby formula does not increase the IQ of babies or have the positive effects that was first assumed, and apparently when its added to formula it dont have the same positive effects that the naturally occuring DHA in breast milk has.

There is even some questions about whether or not its safe to add these artificially into breast milk. The FDA website says that there is "mixed evidence" of term benefit and no evidence for any long term benefit that been observed from adding DHA/AHA to infant formula.

For some reason it is effective when it comes from the mother naturally, but very possibly not when its artifically added. I aint sayin that to discourage you or nothing, i just thought you might find it interesting. In your situation you aint got a choice, so i dont want to make you feel bad about it. But i feel that if i was in your position i would want to be as aware as possible of this type of thing.

here is one quote i came across
What is troublesome, however, is that some infant formulas contain DHA- and ARA-containing oils that are novel foods—extracted from laboratory-grown fermented algae and fungus and processed utilizing a toxic chemical, hexane. These algal and fungal oils provide DHA and ARA in forms that are structurally different from those naturally found in human milk. These manufactured oils are known as DHASCO and ARASCO, which stand for docosahexaenoic acid single cell oil and arachidonic acid single cell oil.

These oils are produced by Martek Biosciences Corporation and appear to be added to infant formula primarily as a marketing tool designed to convince parents that formula is now “as close as ever to breast milk.” Substantiating this thesis is a Martek investment promotion from 1996, which reads as follows: “Even if [the DHA/ARA blend] has no benefit, we think it would be widely incorporated into formulas, as a marketing tool and to allow companies to promote their formula as ‘closest to human milk.'”

Scientists have conducted numerous studies that show little or no benefit to an infant’s development from adding DHASCO and ARASCO to infant formula. Overall, research results are inconsistent and inconclusive. Meanwhile, the formula companies have advertised aggressively in an attempt to convince parents that their DHA/ARA formula provides the same nutrients, and therefore the same benefits, as breast milk.

The shit in red is the shit that really, really pisses me off. these mutha fuckas are the real evil ones here, not the women who been misled to believe that formula is "just as good", etc. It aint the regular mothers fault when they been told that formula is better or just as good and then choose to use it instead--They hear these claims and they believe that its true. Its the formula companies that do this shady shit to trick people and manipulate them and pass on false information. You cant help it if you been told this stuff that formula is really just basically the same, etc. Many, many women been raised to believe this their whole life, that aint their fault becuz they been misled. Thats another reason why I had the original question--becuz i feel like many women DONT breastfeed becuz they been led to believe it really aint no difference, and if they did know the factual information i believe their decision would be different.

I guess i feel like this...If someone told you that you could feed your baby a food that been perfectly engineered just for him, that would enhance his immune system, make him less likely to catch common illnesses and health problems, prevent obesity, cause slightly higher IQ's, promote healthy bonding with you, that can decrease tooth plaque cavities and decay, is instantly available 24/7, and its perfectly free and unlimited....or you can give your baby a food that makes your child more likely to have problems with overweight/obesity once he gets older, makes him more likely to get cavities, costs lots of money,and takes time and preparation to get ready and requires you to buy extra equipment to give to him....Which one would make more sense? you feel me?

It aint that Im tryna put nobody down. Im just struggling to understand the justification for not doing it when it aint done by choice and not as a necessity, becuz all the reasons i have heard , to me, are just very weak, and dont even come close to outweighting the benefits.
 
As usual, ocean is the voice of reason IMO.

It is incredibly ridiculous to blanketedly judge people as 'selfish', 'lazy' or 'bordering on child neglect' for choosing formula over breast milk (especially considering I know a lot of the people commenting here are NOT parents yet). There are many reasons outside of medical issues or otherwise why people choose formula... many of which I don't see selfish at all. I hope I can easily breast-feed my kids when I have them but if not I'm not going to turn my kids over to the fucking child protective services. My mother breast-fed me. I appreciate her for it but I wouldn't hold it against her if she ended up deciding not to. I'm sure I'd be pretty OK. Seriously.

I'm not trying to point fingers at any specific contribution here but I really don't think it's that big of a deal to choose formula.

I did not mean to personally insult anyone or be judgmental. I have a very immediate and strong emotional reaction to mothers not breast feeding, for whatever reason. I suppose it is, in a way, the same as how some pro life people feel very upset by the idea of abortion. I feel it is a crucial and sacred act, breastfeeding. I view most things from a pretty spiritual perspective I guess, and obviously (or should be obvious, from a lot of my posts anyway) I am an extremist in a lot of my views on life (diet, medicine, etc). I am aware that I am an extremist and not everyone thinks like me. That is okay.

But it is hard to share strong opinions on an issue sometimes without insulting anyone. It isn't personal, and I'm not saying any woman who makes that choice is a disgusting person or anything. There are a lot of things I strongly believe about life that most people I know wouldn't follow. I don't dislike the person for not living that way, but at the same time, those are my beliefs and I like to express them.

And no, I don't have kids. I would like to, maybe, but it is a big choice for me, as I obviously have pretty high standards of how to raise them. The sore nipples thing worries me as well. I've contemplated my ability to stand the pain and discomfort of breast feeding. I think, for me, if I decide breast feeding might not work for me, I'd rather just not have children. I just consider it a part of having children, and if I can't do it I can't be a mom.

To me saying "I am having a baby but choose not to breast feed" is sort of like saying "I'm having a baby but I don't want to worry about diapers." You can't pick and choose these things... they are a part of having a baby.

But that's just me, as I said I mean no personal offense to any of you ladies or your mothers. <3
 
One thing I personally wonder about, and that is that I have no doubt that breast-milk contains more than one hormone. Seeing that breast-feeding is a natural phase of mammals' life cycles, I wonder if the lack of exposure to these hormones has any effect (positive or negative) on the baby's development?

during the early phase of breast-feeding a child's intestines are extremely permeable to growth factors found in the breast milk (IGF1, IGF2). These are responsible for muscul-skeletal development as well as development of sex organs, maintenance of insulin sensitivity, etc.

A bad idea not to give the baby the mother's milk.
 
Just putting my two cents in, but my grandmother didn't really do much breastfeeding of her children, my father, it was a fashionable thing to give your babies factory processed formula in the 50's.
Everything was all about factories in the 50's. So if you could rear a child with the help of factories, all the better!
That was the fad at the time according to my dad. Then the formula just kinda stayed on the shelf through the years occasionally getting in fashion or out of fashion.
 
MNID - Your willingness to put yourself out there without pitter-pattering reservations is one of the things people love so much about you on this site. :) <3 I was worried that you would think I was attacking your beliefs on the issue but I figured you, above almost anybody else in this thread would be open to opposing beliefs. I'm really glad I didn't offend you. I respectfully disagree with you but I love being able to have these discussions without worrying about others getting all butt hurt.
 
during the early phase of breast-feeding a child's intestines are extremely permeable to growth factors found in the breast milk (IGF1, IGF2). These are responsible for muscul-skeletal development as well as development of sex organs, maintenance of insulin sensitivity, etc.

A bad idea not to give the baby the mother's milk.

True. And the fact is, science hasn't really spent a lot of time researching the value of breast-feeding v. formula. Research in women's health was not a top priority in the medical community until the 90s. When the market made it profitable.

I am a strong proponent of breast-feeding for the numerous reasons provided by lacey, MNID and others.

I am also a person who, since age 7, has suffered from severe and undiagnosed (until recently) GI problems that studies have now shown to be linked to being fed on formula. The antibodies passed from mother to child play a critical part in regulating the immune system and preventing future problems, some of which will plague a child long into adulthood.

I am adopted and in care at 4 weeks… so formula it was. Wet nurses weren't available… more's the pity.
 
^ you might want to research IGF + intestinal permeability.

Looks like you might benefit from doing a 100 day run of IGFLR3. It is an injectible but can be administered with an insulin syringe (30g) subcutaneous.

I am not a doctor so take my advise with a grain of salt. I am in a period of research on this exact topic right now actually. I only believe in recommending conservative approaches to people because I lack a formal training in diet/nutrition/physiology. This IGF therapy would be considered semi-radical and thus I have reservations suggesting it to anybody without further research.
 
Not every new mother is a welfare mummy who can spend 24/7 with their child and some need the support of other humans to help raise their children. I have to laugh at the "lazy" comments on bottle feeding and how "easy" it is to express enough breast milk to support every feeding whim of a new born. Reality is breast feeding is the lazy option. No need to sterilise, heat, try to calm a screaming, hungry baby in the middle of the night for 10-15 minutes while preparing a meal on demand. It is really easier to simply drag the child into bed, attach her to a nipple then drift off to sleep. Bottles are hard work, but at least you can prepare them ahead of time and the father/sitter can help with feeding. Unfortunately you shouldn't microwave those bottles so be prepared to have a 10-15minute lag as you heat those bottles, which is a lot of fun when your pride and joy is screaming for food.

The fact is breasts don't produce milk like a cow. You can express all you like but some days even otherwise healthy mothers can't keep up with a hungry baby. Add to that being extremely tired and run down and you can have days where your milk supply is reduce (believe it or not we are talking about a biologically variable producer, not a farm bred animal). You need a rested and fully fed mother to produce milk. If you are poor and can't feed yourself sufficiently you will struggle to feed your child. So much for a free food supply. Let's not forget that if you get sick you won't want to take any medications that might pass on through your breast milk. You can always just soldier on and run your self down some more... oh wait, that will affect your milk also.

Reality is mums will decide breast vs bottle on an individual basis. You can't prepare for parenthood from what you read in books. It is hard enough without non-breeders chipping in their 2cents. Personally I think the laziest parents are those who resort to using pacifiers to calm their screaming kids, talk about selfish, loveless parenting. 8)

*cooks some popcorn and waits for Lacy K to actually have a kid and sheepishly step down from her soap box*
 
I breast fed all my kids.
I would not have liked to have to get up and make out formula during the night, hassle of sterilising bottles. The worry of giving the formula then hearing it might have to be recalled for some reason.
Partly it was down to laziness why I choose to breast feed as I hate dishes. The other reason is that I am pretty damn selfish and did not want to share that time with anyone. I went 9 months carrying each of my children and I was going to spend at least the other 9 months getting to know my babies every twitch.
Besides breast feeding meant I could take the kids anywhere at any time without stress and hassle of taking bottles or finding somewhere to warm the bottles up.
so tits out for tots :D
 
I went 9 months carrying each of my children and I was going to spend at least the other 9 months getting to know my babies every twitch.

That's just how I would feel. :)

MNID - Your willingness to put yourself out there without pitter-pattering reservations is one of the things people love so much about you on this site. I was worried that you would think I was attacking your beliefs on the issue but I figured you, above almost anybody else in this thread would be open to opposing beliefs. I'm really glad I didn't offend you. I respectfully disagree with you but I love being able to have these discussions without worrying about others getting all butt hurt.

Thank you. :) <3<3<3
 
*cooks some popcorn and waits for Lacy K to actually have a kid and sheepishly step down from her soap box*

Not happening. My feelings aint gonna change, I aint gonna be using no damn formula, and I dont give a fuck the sacrifices I have to take to do that if there are any that come my way. And my kid will be here in about a month, so ill let you know when i dont change my mind.

Your comments about "being a welfare mom" and shit like that dont even deserve to be dignified with a response tho, I really expect better from you busty.

Its ironic that you make these comments since you aint even got a set of tits to feed with so you aint one to talk about if I have done this yet or not. I was raised around it with my younger sisters long enough to know how the shit works. That dont replace personal experience of b breastfeeding, but a few weeks from now Ill be able to speak from it, and you still aint gonna be able to.
 
You know I'm only shit stirring you Lacy. I can't wait to swap parenting gossip with you in the not to distant future. In fact shoot me your address because I have loads of baby stuff I'd love to give to a loving home.

Edit: I may not have teats but believe me I am more than capable of raising my brood. No one ever starved on Busty's shift. ;)
 
That's just how I would feel. :)

it feels really special, I can say they grow up too quick and before you know it you don't spend as much time with them as they are all grown up and away with friends. so time is precious when they are little enjoy every minute, those you can not enjoy include vomit and the runs, of which you forget quickly. well maybe not the smell lol:)
 
Its ironic that you make these comments since you aint even got a set of tits to feed with...

Edit: I may not have teats but believe me I am more than capable of raising my brood. No one ever starved on Busty's shift. ;)

actually, men can breastfeed. i watched some program about a man who had his infant latch on and through frequent stimulation, eventually, he began to produce milk.

http://www.babycenter.com/404_can-men-breastfeed_8824.bc

Yes, in theory, men can breastfeed. Male breasts have milk ducts, and some mammary tissue. They also have oxytocin and prolactin, the hormones responsible for milk production. There have been reports of men who were able to produce milk through extensive breast and nipple stimulation, but no one knows whether the milk was of the same composition or quality as the kind women produce. Using a pump, or a feeding tube (a small silicone tube attached to a plastic bottle filled with formula) at his breast, he might be able to get a baby to latch on and suckle, but how long it would take to produce even drops of milk is anyone's guess.

here's an interesting video though i'm pretty certain it's a bit scripted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G826-2p57k
 
it feels really special, I can say they grow up too quick and before you know it you don't spend as much time with them as they are all grown up and away with friends. so time is precious when they are little enjoy every minute, those you can not enjoy include vomit and the runs, of which you forget quickly. well maybe not the smell lol:)

My mom has told me about when I was a newborn, how she didn't really mind the lack of sleep because she'd hear me crying, wake up in the middle of the night and then just sit in the moonlight coming in the window, just me and her, and look down at me as I quietly fed from her. She said it was always so beautiful and peaceful. :)
 
hahah busty, i really had to check twice that the OP was from you becuz i was like this really aint his style, WTF? Forgive me tho Ima blame extreme tiredness from the "Night before the script refill blues" and stayin up all night waitin for the pharmacy to open.

(Just for the record, its totally unrelated but that sounds like I take extra methadone or somethin, I dont, but my dose been the same since I gained 40lbs, so it aint holding me no more and my dr. wont up it. so I aint been sleepin so hot now that Im in the home stretch, meanin sunday night was a little rough and i still hadnt caught some rest yet when I was replyin to ya on monday night--last night-- since you crazy upside down world folks might get confused with your future-times and all ;) )

Haha, That was my bad for sure and I feel bad that I would reply like that, my trollin perception was definately off:)

Anyways, future pig , that some crazy shit!!! I dont even know WTF to say about that, wow!
 
I breast fed my son for 2 years, (up until the point he started the chew my nipples) and I did'nt find it easy to milk myself at all!!

Id put the pump on and get a dribble after an hours work, I think yes breast feedings great for you and your baby, but it is very demanding!!!
 
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