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Are opiates bringing our world to it's knees?

lizcass

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
19
Location
Washington, DC
That's my question. I want the honest opinion of other opiate users. I am a multicultural person and i have lived in well over 12 countries growing up and now into my adulthood. I am currently in Washington D.C, and honestly to some degree I believe opiate addiction is bringing (forgive me for being politically incorrect) upper and middle class kids, teens, adults what have you into crime and criminal behavior one because there is an insatiable need for it and two because once the addictive side of you has taken over, you'll sell your own children for the shit. So what do we do? I'm originally from Germany, which you all know is close to Amsterdam and there they administer shots of heroin to users everyday in clinics once a day, to keep them out of trouble and to diminish disease and havoc and mayhem I see in the united states. Drugs don't really tear families and people apart in Europe as I've seen here and various other places. Is it possibly the acceptance that comes with it or what? I was just wondering
 
Yes, the War On Drugs causes most of the problems related to drugs.
 
I just feel like the more people criminalize the use of it the more people do it. I mean half the people I went to college with are on some form of drug. I am a productive member of society and I work and pay my bills. I like to get high, I dont necessarily think it's because I'm in some form of emotional turmoil. I'm pretty fucking happy but I also like drugs. Does that make us bad? And who the fuck is to decide what is good and what is bad for someone to do to THEMSELVES. I'm talking about use not distribution bullshit and cartels. If it was mass produced and sold there would be no issue... well there will always be issues.
 
Short answer: its the criminalization of drugs in these cases, not the drugs themselves. Swiss and other heroin maintenance programs clearly demonstrate that if you take the criminality, junkie culture/lifestyle out of the equation, people can maintain their lives... certainly physically and often socially, occupationally, educationally, etc.

This isn't really appropriate for the OD forum so I'm going to try it in the DC forum but I'm not sure if they'll keep it open or in there. Its certainly and interesting topic but just beyond the scope of what's discussed in here.
 
I just feel like the more people criminalize the use of it the more people do it. I mean half the people I went to college with are on some form of drug. I am a productive member of society and I work and pay my bills. I like to get high, I dont necessarily think it's because I'm in some form of emotional turmoil. I'm pretty fucking happy but I also like drugs. Does that make us bad? And who the fuck is to decide what is good and what is bad for someone to do to THEMSELVES. I'm talking about use not distribution bullshit and cartels. If it was mass produced and sold there would be no issue... well there will always be issues.

Nothing makes me more mad then when someone will say something negative about drugs, drug users, or something like that, when they're prescribed drugs to take daily. I want to punch them in the face and say, I need my dope to function normally just as much as you need that adderall, xanax, whatever to get through your day, so what makes you any better than me?

It's just silly that our society looks down upon use of particular drugs, while it prizes the effects other drugs have on people. Why is ok to use this one, but not that one? Shouldn't it be MY choice to do what I want with my body, but it's really just the stigma of these drugs that keeps people from accepting it's use. Once all these people die off that are so scared of drugs because of the After School Specials they saw as kids and the D.A.R.E. classes they took, real chance could come. I say could because idiocy always finds a way to prevail....
 
Patriarchy, domination and oppression of psychedelics brought the world to its knees. If you want to blame a drug, blame alcohol.
 
I don't think the problem is opiates, but more-so the pharmaceutical industry and the greed there-in.
 
I concur with the opinions that it isn't opiates that cause problems, but the lack of access for those that need them. Oh I'm not saying that they don't ever cause any problems and they're as harmless as a handful of jellybeans.
That would be stupid and naive. But as some of the posters above have said, many people can function fairly well while on opiates, if only they have access to a regular and affordable supply.
Its the criminalization of drugs and drug users that leads them to desperate measures and harms society. Treat people like criminals and they will act like criminals.
This is true for both the heroin addict who must wait in darkened alleys for his dealer to bring him his fix, to the chronic pain patient whose doctor arbitrarily decides after a year or two, that she doesnt need Oxycontin any more and simply cuts off her prescription, leading her to seek less legitimate avenues to acquire her supply.
Some people seem to think that there are two kinds of people in this world..Decent (and sober) law abiding citizens and scummy criminal drug users.
I learned not so long ago, yesterday's law abiding citizen can turn into tomorrows criminal drug user before anyone even realizes the change.
 
It's a shame that people will never be able to do or use what they want.

It makes me sad that other people make decisions for us regarding our own lives against our will.

In one hand someone can take a handful of pills and it's "ok" because they are prescribed, but then someone shoots a bag of heroin and it's disgraceful. Whether they like it or not they are taking the same fucking thing that the "addict" is except it's legal.

I wonder how many people in the white house take opiates and bitch about illicit drugs.
 
I do think opiates are harmful to people in the long run due to the depletion of dopamine and the resulting inability for the person to enjoy ANYTHING...opiates can really destroy people. I've seen it first-hand and experienced it myself...to a degree...I saw how deep the rabbit hole went and knew enough from abusing other drugs to stop.

All this being said, I still believe drugs should be decriminalized as it's the up to the individual what they do with their body. Why is this rule followed with alcohol but nothing else?

In regard to specifically what the OP said, I agree with what others have posted...it wouldn't be such a problem if it weren't criminal.
 
^^That can really be said about any substance really. From cocaine to fast food, anything can become a negative influence on someone's life. If I shoot dope all the time and start stealing to get the money I need, I could go to jail or die in a robbery gone bad. I also could eat fast food everyday, get diabetes, become overweight and subsequently have health issues from it that could kill me faster than hustling up money for dope could.

It's really hard for me to rationalize the demonization of one substance over another when it comes to personal use. It's my body, Imma do what I want whether it's legal or not. So the only thing that changes with the legality of my substance of choice is whether I can be put in jail for using it or not.
 
^good post.

For the record, chronic opioid use doesn't 'deplete dopamine'. It does increase opioid receptor sites requiring more to feel the effect, but this is very reversible with time and effort. They don't produce brain damage or organ damage like a lot of other substances. Much of the harm associated with opioid use is due to criminalization - whether that's the impurities of the product, the associated lifestyle, the variability in potency leading to OD, restriction of accurate information and so forth.
 
^good post.

For the record, chronic opioid use doesn't 'deplete dopamine'. It does increase opioid receptor sites requiring more to feel the effect, but this is very reversible with time and effort. They don't produce brain damage or organ damage like a lot of other substances. Much of the harm associated with opioid use is due to criminalization - whether that's the impurities of the product, the associated lifestyle, the variability in potency leading to OD, restriction of accurate information and so forth.

Well, over long periods of time opiates can dehydrate you and leech vitamins etc from your body, which can be seen as minor organ damage... but as far as heavily-addictive/euphoric substances go, I agree that opiates are relatively harmless.
 
That may be true, but it's easily stopped by being aware of that and just staying hydrated. As long as you don't get high and then completely ignore your body's need for food and water, you shouldn't have a problem. This obviously is an issue when you're a full blown addict and you don't have a steady cash supply, since you will most likely spend any and all money on dope instead of food, but if that's the case, nothing is going to stop you anyways, so what is making that person a criminal do?

It just really bothers me that dope is illegal, but things like Adderall are given out like candy to even small kids. That stuff makes me feel like complete garbage if I take a recreational dose and even at therapeutic doses, the side effects are very unpleasant. It really seems to take a toll on my body that even "hard drugs" don't.
 
I completely agree man, honestly. Opiates like oxycontin, or now that they've started making the OP's, Heroin are bringing down uppper/ middle class americans. I'm currently taking a Drug Rehabilitation Studies class at my university and the most deaths/ most dangerous drugs that we've learned about in my class are 1. Alcohol 2. Tobacco and 3. prescription drugs. All legal. I've also seen it all around my area and all areas that i have lived in, the painkiller abuse i mean, i truthfully believe that painkillers are a growing epidemic to the middle/upper class culture and the natural public is completely blind to it...its crazy. However i'm not one to criticize being an avid opiate user myself (lets be blunt im addicted to painkillers) but i have been fighting it lately trying to stop my use. sorry i just feel like i needed to vent a little bit


******IN SHORT... I FEEL LIKE PRESCRIPTION PAINKILLER ABUSE IS ONE OF THE LARGEST GROWING EPIDEMICS IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS COMPLETELY BLIND*****
 
Well, over long periods of time opiates can dehydrate you and leech vitamins etc from your body, which can be seen as minor organ damage... but as far as heavily-addictive/euphoric substances go, I agree that opiates are relatively harmless.

relatively harmless? what fantasy world do you live in? jesus christ.
 
I completely agree man, honestly. Opiates like oxycontin, or now that they've started making the OP's, Heroin are bringing down uppper/ middle class americans. I'm currently taking a Drug Rehabilitation Studies class at my university and the most deaths/ most dangerous drugs that we've learned about in my class are 1. Alcohol 2. Tobacco and 3. prescription drugs. All legal. I've also seen it all around my area and all areas that i have lived in, the painkiller abuse i mean, i truthfully believe that painkillers are a growing epidemic to the middle/upper class culture and the natural public is completely blind to it...its crazy. However i'm not one to criticize being an avid opiate user myself (lets be blunt im addicted to painkillers) but i have been fighting it lately trying to stop my use. sorry i just feel like i needed to vent a little bit


******IN SHORT... I FEEL LIKE PRESCRIPTION PAINKILLER ABUSE IS ONE OF THE LARGEST GROWING EPIDEMICS IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS COMPLETELY BLIND*****

No offense, but you sound like Fox News calling this an epidemic. Use rates have not changed substantially in decades, just the drugs people are using have shifted. The '70s saw rises in heroin use, the '80s saw cocaine use go up, the '90s saw meth use surge and now in the 2000's its a surge in prescription opioids.

If you look at major trends in drug abuse over the last 100 years, about the same amount are using drugs, the same amounts are becoming addicted.

Most of the prescription drug abuse is NOT legal, its not people with legitimate scripts but the product of doctor shopping, patient diversion, pharmacy robberies, and so forth that is no more legal than illicit drugs coming over from Mexico or Colombia.

And although addiction is never good, people taking known amounts of properly produced opioid pills does not seem as bad to me as illicit cocaine cut with levamisole, meth produced in labs that could be poisoning children or blow up residential areas or even alcohol that can kill you upon withdrawal and is tightly correlated to issues such as domestic violence.
 
Many prohibitionists fail to note how opiates have been used since the dawn of civilization, yet none of these previous societies have collapsed due to opiate abuse and addiction. There are still cultures in the world which use opiates on a regular basis, for everything from pain to depression. It bothers me that all this anti-drug bullshit stems from racial hysterias in the early 1900's, but yet people can't take the blinders off and see the root of the problem or how these policies came about. It seems society takes correlation and associates it with causation, and instead of basing their decisions and opinions on fact and logic, they base it on emotion. You hear a news story about some suburban kid who ODed on a bag of heroin mixed with fentanyl, and the story leads you to believe the heroin itself is the cause of the problem. The appeal to emotion is a powerful tool the prohibitionists use. If you look at any of the "heroin in the suburbs" type news stories, they focus very heavily on the people involved, while never really discussing any actual facts or statistics. It isn't the black market to blame, or a bad cut, or the inconsistency of street drugs, it's the drug itself. People can't process the impact the black market has, or the ramifications of prohibition; they are too caught up in the societal mindset to actually sit down and realize the true roots of the problems. The whole herd mentality of society helps to hinder progress quite a bit as well. If you say you support heroin legalization, you are labeled as crazy or some kinda nutjob, even if you explain your position in a logical manner.

I think this, plus the stigmatization of many drugs, especially heroin, helps push people away from society and into the lifestyle. It isn't the actual drug that creates the lifestyle and culture associated with it so much as it's society's reaction to said drug, combined with the underground nature of the black market. I think opiate legalization would present some interesting changes in society. Many people point to how prescription meds and pills are treated over opiates. If you think about it, there isn't really a lifestyle centered around most prescription meds, and if there is it certainly is not to the degree it is with opiates, particularly heroin. I don't want to say that it's societys reaction alone that causes this, as there's clearly a bar scene and lifestyles associated and related to alcohol. I do think society at the very least helps shape the lifestyle centered around opiates, however. If you could buy your opiate of choice at a store in the same or similar manner to alcohol, I doubt people would be living the junkie life. Much of the lifestyle is centered around aspects that are related to the black market. For example, where I live, heroin is sold in powder form, packaged in wax paper stamp bags. Speaking for myself, and most likely for many others, this alone is almost as big an addiction as the drug itself. Going out and finding stamps can be an interesting process, and each stamp is different. People hear one stamp is good, or an OD is associated with a particular stamp, and people will flock to go acquire that stamp. Going into drug neighborhoods is another aspect of the lifestyle. The open air markets in Philly are in some colorful neighborhoods. Even on uneventful trips, the process to go and cop on the block can be fun in and of itself, or give you a rush. If you could buy your opiate of choice in a shop, this whole aspect would be eliminated. Many people fail to realize they have two addictions, one to the drug and another to the lifestyle centered around it. I don't think anyone would say there's fun, adventure, or risk in going into a liquor store and buying a bottle

Finally, the cycle of criminality also creates the stigma and lifestyle centered around opiates. Once you are in the system, it is hard to get out. Combined with the fact that you meet people involved in the system through it, it helps trap people in this cycle. While there certainly is crime that is impacted by drugs, black market inflation does not help the situation. Opiates would be much more affordable if there wasn't a black market demand for them, or legal means to acquire them. It's hard for people to find employment when they have a record or prior convictions, especially if said convictions are drug related. This means in order to feed their habit, they must find alternative ways to acquire money. Addicts can be resourceful people, especially when they are sick and suffering. I feel as if many who are opiate users are unfairly cheated. Much dysfunction in their lives is a result of criminality and the black market. Think about how many people are functional users or even abusers of prescription meds. They don't need to resort to criminality to fund their habit, largely because said substance is easier for them to acquire without resorting to criminality. I think given the chance, most drug users/abusers would choose earning money legitimately over taking a risk and dabbling in crime, especially if said crime carries harsh penalties with it. I for one know when I earn my own money to spend on drugs, it makes me feel better and leaves me with no guilt. As I said, the nature of criminality and prohibition makes this difficult for many drug users, however. They can't stop in the store to grab enough for the day, so they need to find alternative means to acquire the drug as well as the money to afford it. Finally, the cycle itself traps many, many people. Jails are basically a networking tool for criminals. Combine this with the cycle and difficulty of returning to legitimacy, and you have a recipe for creating a new class in society. While it would be beneficial to most to change things, certain people, specifically those with power and influence, don't want the change to occur. They benefit too much of things being the way they are. Why take an interest in changing society and helping people if it will lose you money? I have respect for people who make policy, they know what they do. While the public is easily misled and deceived, there is a small minority who can see through this veil of deception. One part is people like those on this forum, who can use rationality and logic correctly and advocate for reform. These people, however, are portrayed as radical or crazy. Look at how people react if you advocate legalization of hard drugs. The other part of this minority is those who are in power. They pull the strings, they know how they benefit from keeping the status quo and having the sheep follow their commands. It's sad that things are so backwards, yet the majority of the public thinks that what we have now is normal, logical, sane, and moral

I'll return to this topic, I have much to say about this all
 
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