Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[SkagKush]

^id bet alot of blue lighters learned to main online.....

 

[thebay420]

Im on BMT and i broke down tonight and used after not taking sub for 48 hours. How long do I have to wait to take sub? I have something very important to do about 20 hours after my last does of 20mg of opana ER ( Snorted). I did 40mg total in a 6 hour period today. Will I be safe taking my dose 4mg? should I only take 2mg? I dunno if that would make me less likely to get thrown into precip but i also dont wanna go there in mild w/d. If i remember correctly i would start w/d of oxymorphone about 15 hours after my last dose. Can ya'll give me some advice. If im not clear enough let me know and ill try to clear any confusion.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Im on BMT and i broke down tonight and used after not taking sub for 48 hours. How long do I have to wait to take sub? I have something very important to do about 20 hours after my last does of 20mg of opana ER ( Snorted). I did 40mg total in a 6 hour period today. Will I be safe taking my dose 4mg? should I only take 2mg? I dunno if that would make me less likely to get thrown into precip but i also dont wanna go there in mild w/d. If i remember correctly i would start w/d of oxymorphone about 15 hours after my last dose. Can ya'll give me some advice. If im not clear enough let me know and ill try to clear any confusion.

Even on Suboxone you still might be in slight withdrawal due to Opana. It's a really potent opiate.

You should at least get generally good relief from buprenorphine.

I would only take 2mg at first to make sure you won't go into precipitated withdrawal, that way you can take another 2mg later on if you need it.

 

[catcalls]

Well, I'm on supervised script now. This means the pharmacist has to watch when I take the pills. The reason? I've been upped to 4mg from 3.2mg. The latter dose was not holding me. So, I explained my situation, that I had been trying to score, and they got a new script that I had to collect in in one day time.

Right now, I feel a lot better (not high) from the Subutex. I feel normal again. On 3.2mg the reduction came too soon. And I felt like shit every day. I was subsidicisng with Melatonin pills. That really helped me last until 10am today when I usually take at 8am.

 

[PurpleLibra]

^
look at the top of the threads in OD....

i would suggest reading the rules before any more posts....

As elucidated in a previous post, I did read what I thought were the rules. CH stated that there was a link to a comprehensive set of rules for this forum in his signature, which are not there as proved by this screen shot:

But, that was established in subsequent posts.

Now that I know where to find them, I will go read them.

Although, I just realized that I'm posting yet again without reading the rules, so I hope I'm not breaking any rules by discussing the rules. Just in case there is a "remain on topic rule" I will say that snorting 2 mgs of Suboxone last night gave me a very pleasant feeling and didn't make me tired. So, THANK YOU Axe Battler!

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Anyone else get the Suboxone gel strips?
They are like those listerine breath strips only they have suboxone on them, they are still sublingual.
I fucking hate these things so much, I feel like I've been going in and out of withdrawal for weeks (I think the delivery system is not nearly as efficient as the pills, so less abosrbs into me)
Also the taste is way worse, you can't snort them
The thing is they are literally giving these damn things away for free for 6 months so asking for the pill form doesn't really make sense in the eyes of the medical "professionals" (I fucking hate my suboxone doctor as well). I feel like these things are totally counter productive as far as suboxone goes.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Anyone else get the Suboxone gel strips?
They are like those listerine breath strips only they have suboxone on them, they are still sublingual.
I fucking hate these things so much, I feel like I've been going in and out of withdrawal for weeks (I think the delivery system is not nearly as efficient as the pills, so less abosrbs into me)
Also the taste is way worse, you can't snort them
The thing is they are literally giving these damn things away for free for 6 months so asking for the pill form doesn't really make sense in the eyes of the medical "professionals" (I fucking hate my suboxone doctor as well). I feel like these things are totally counter productive as far as suboxone goes.

I haven't tried the strips yet so I can't comment.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

I just tried snorting them for the first time and my nose is so clogged it's ridiculous.
It's kinda funny how clogged my nose is. I mixed one strip in a little bit of water (the water was in a bottle cap for a vitamin bottle) and I used an oral syringe.
I don't think I'm ever doing that again. I just want the tablets back so I can snort them and get the higher bioavailability.

 

[trychomes]

Just adding my .02 pertaining to Suboxone. I have been taking 4mg for the past three days, and have been feeling great. My opiate habit was about one to two 80mg OC a day, for a year.
I have 2.5 8mg pills left. I plan on stepping down a half mg each day until I get to one mg and then staying there for like 3 days and maybe 3 days of .5 mg also. Does that sound good to anybody?

 

[catcalls]

Just adding my .02 pertaining to Suboxone. I have been taking 4mg for the past three days, and have been feeling great. My opiate habit was about one to two 80mg OC a day, for a year.
I have 2.5 8mg pills left. I plan on stepping down a half mg each day until I get to one mg and then staying there for like 3 days and maybe 3 days of .5 mg also. Does that sound good to anybody?

You can do a two week detox from 8mg. It is pretty harsh on the soul tho IMO. Are you feeling any WD yet? Perhaps this is something for me to consider for the future because I tried 0.4mg drop every two weeks and found myself screwing around with my dose after a week on the same dose.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

It sounds good if you are committed to staying clean and know you won't go back to using once you are off.
How stable is your living situation? Have you cut off your drug buddies and dealers?
If you are just using them to prevent withdrawal until you can get your OC back I'd say you'll probably feel some discomfort once you get to the 1mg/.5mg range. The PAWS from suboxone is supposedly worse than the PAWS from full agonist opiates so that sucks, but you can get used to it and not have it affect you that much if you can keep reminding yourself why you are feeling depressed.

 

[LittlebyLittle]

I found my sweet spot dosage this time trying bupe. 2mg is the perfect amount for me. I didn't have much of a habit as far as oxy dosage (maybe 40-60mg/day) and last time i tried subs i went too high and felt like shit.

this stuff really works. glad i'm on the way to being sober. gonna take 1mg for the next 4 days. then it's drop off time which is gonna suck but at least it wouldn't be as bad as cold turkey drop off, right?

 

[duneplanet]

does subutex feel better than suboxone?

I know this sounds like a dumb question because they are both bupe but my friend tells me he doesnt get high off suboxone but subutex makes him feel wonderful. im currenly ton suboxone 1 mg, are there any benifits to switching to subutex?

 

[PurpleLibra]

Anyone else get the Suboxone gel strips?
They are like those listerine breath strips only they have suboxone on them, they are still sublingual.
I fucking hate these things so much, I feel like I've been going in and out of withdrawal for weeks (I think the delivery system is not nearly as efficient as the pills, so less abosrbs into me)
Also the taste is way worse, you can't snort them
The thing is they are literally giving these damn things away for free for 6 months so asking for the pill form doesn't really make sense in the eyes of the medical "professionals" (I fucking hate my suboxone doctor as well). I feel like these things are totally counter productive as far as suboxone goes.

I would just tell my doctor the truth... If they aren't effective, they're not effective. Everyone is different.... My doc (I adore her) gave me a couple of 8mg strips to try to see if I liked those better than the pills. I snorted (first time!) last night and LOVED IT! I can't very well snort them at work (that would be hilarious.... I'm sitting in my office and my boss - who is a politician - walks in and sees me snorting orange piles of powder off of my organizer.... ) so I tried the strips doing it EXACTLY like they said.... I cut it in half, then cut the half in half, then stuck it under the right side of my tongue and kept my mouth shut and tried not to swallow until it dissolved completely. THAT in an of itself was funny because when I dosed at work (I usually dose around 11:00 a.m.) my phones were ringing and my boss (who is also a colonel in the Army) was standing in my office.... It went like this:

Phones: RING RING RING RING RING RING RING.

Me:

My boss: Aren't you going to get that?

Me: *Shakes head no*

My boss: Why not?

Me: *grabs a pen and a post it..... scribble scribble...... wave note to boss*

Boss: *squints trying to read my chicken scratch* Can't. Meds under tongue. Can't talk. OOOOOOH!

So, he grabs the phone and says, "Libra's office, Libra's Boss speaking."

Person on the other end of the phone: *click*


He didn't say "Libra" of course... he said my name... And he didn't say "Libra's boss" he used his title and name. I reckon the person on the other end of the line did NOT expect my boss to answer and FREAKED OUT and just hung up on him.

My boss, just hung up the phone and walked away. By that time, I had swallowed and asked him what happened and he's all like, "They hung up on me!" I said, "That's because you scare the shit out of people. If you would have just said, '"hello'", they would have talked to you."

He goes, "Morons". and goes in his office and shuts the door.

I have a perfectly good reason for my dosing, though.... I have IBS and I take meds for that sublingually and it's right there on my desk and he knows that's how I take it.

Anyway, I got off track... Can't you tell your doctor EXACTLY what you said above (minus the snorting part)? It seems completely asinine that they would make you take something one way when you clearly do better with the pills.

I found my sweet spot dosage this time trying bupe. 2mg is the perfect amount for me. I didn't have much of a habit as far as oxy dosage (maybe 40-60mg/day) and last time i tried subs i went too high and felt like shit.

this stuff really works. glad i'm on the way to being sober. gonna take 1mg for the next 4 days. then it's drop off time which is gonna suck but at least it wouldn't be as bad as cold turkey drop off, right?

Me too! I just went from 12 to 8 mgs and I think I'm even ready to drop even lower.... I seem to not need such large amounts either and I was taking WAY more oxys than you.

Someone posted a GREAT defense for withdrawals a couple of pages back.... Let me see if I can find it for you. Congrats and good luck on getting sober!

 

[PurpleLibra]

I found my sweet spot dosage this time trying bupe. 2mg is the perfect amount for me. I didn't have much of a habit as far as oxy dosage (maybe 40-60mg/day) and last time i tried subs i went too high and felt like shit.

this stuff really works. glad i'm on the way to being sober. gonna take 1mg for the next 4 days. then it's drop off time which is gonna suck but at least it wouldn't be as bad as cold turkey drop off, right?

Here you go, Little. This should help you with your withdrawals... at least it can't hurt!

hey yo. I would just like to post my sub experience.
I have had vasodilation (swelling of the feet) from suboxone before. but at 34mg which i would never take again

now no matter what dose i take my feet swell

so this is what i did. i went from 8mg to 4mg to 2mg and jumped in 4 days i've been on suboxone 4+ years(you can do this more slowly)
(plus whatever was built up in my system was still lurking from 4 years plus taking)

I went out and bought a SHIT TON OF SUPPLEMENTS
Acai Berry
Cranberry Extract(take lots)
Apple Cider&Vinegar Extract
Regular Centrum vitamins
Fiber capsules ( a must - take lots)
Protein Shake
Super Green Tea Extract
Biotin(optional)
Omega 3-6-9 Fatty Acids(optional)
Colon Cleanser(optional)
anything with antioxidants
Lutein(optional)
Flaxseed Oil
Beta Carotene

For 2-3 days i used time release 120mg dihydrocodeine after jumping off of sub. after 3 days i was able to get COMPLETELY FUCKED UP off of 200mg of codeine. that means my tolerance dropped over 400mg!

2mg of bupe = 660mg of codeine = 60mg of hydrocodone.


after i was done doing this, i tried sub again.. 1mg under the tongue had me completely fucked up. i am now doing the detox over again cause' i succumbed to the suboxone.

here are some more great things that will help you. one is the acai(first link), another is a super fruit extract super antioxidant blend.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RYM9XE/ref=oss_product

Fruit Juice Extreem TM HIGH POTENCY Amazon ACAI, Blueberry, Goji Berry, Mangosteen, Hawaiin Noni, Black Cherry, Resveratrol, and more, high antioxidants

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RYM9XE/ref=oss_product

drink milk to help coat your stomach. remember - fiber and antioxidants are a must - this is how opiates are removed - urine and feces. antioxidants also cleanse the body.

another optional thing, you might laugh, is the kinoki cleansing detox pads.


check it - i totally detoxed with this stuff in under a week. i was on subs for 4 years! with a 4 month break and a 1 month break! I was started at 34mg! hope this works for you

i have more to add like i only ate rice pudding and stuff even though i was not nauseas, just not hungry.
ibuprofen for headaches
something to goto bed if you need it
something for the runs if you need it (Immodium AD,Pepto,Etc)

if you're widthdrawals are really that bad, do all this, check with your doctor, and take a shitload of tranqs and knock yourself out for the last few days of the major withdrawn symptoms
-------------
Tips for overcoming W/D symptoms:
1. DISTRACT YOURSELF
I could not possibly stress this enough. Those of you who've ended up on this website are probably a) somewhat intelligent (or at least computer-adept) and b) somewhat introspective / intraverted. This means that you're probably going to spend most of your day thinking about how you're feeling and catalouging the symptoms you're experiencing. The problem with this is that the mere process of self-analisys is creating and amplifying your symptoms!!!
2. CREATE YOUR DEFENSE
What I mean by this is; Arm yourself with whatever will possible help you get through this, both physically and psychologically. Get yourself some relatively benign medications (aspirin, etc) and when you are experiencing pain, take one. (not more than is medically sound). This helps not just because of the actual effect of the drug, but because you feel as though you've got the edge now. You're not trapped, you've got your little army of medications (aspirin, melatonin(sleep), chamomille tea(also sleep)) to help you get through this.
3. STAY ACTIVE
This is pretty self explanatory, and it helps in multiple ways. First off, while you're active, you're hardly ever thinking about your symptoms. When I went through my methadone withdrawal, I spent 8-12 hours each day chainsawing through trees, and during those hours, I felt (relatively) alright. Staying active also helps because it will increase your odds of getting a good nights sleep.
4. EAT HEALTHY
Remember that everything you put in your body is helping to get the toxins out of your body. Every trip to the bathroom means slightly less opiates in your system!

 

[catcalls]

I totally agree with the above quote. Having an army of alternative medicines to fight off withdrawal symptoms when being reduced down or for whatever other reason is a good idea.

Mainly ~ and this is my reason ~ it stops me from scoring heroin.

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Today i did a full agonist for the first time in over a couple months now and i must say i was very displeased with the results. I almost found it sort of feeling like a "dirty" high if anyone can understand what i'm tryin to say. It really made me miss my bupe though and i wish i could take it now but i'm gonna wait till tomorrow night just to make sure i dont have harsh precips. Its just bupe from here on out. Best thing to have ever happened to me

This was exactly my point earlier on , once you relapse for whatever reason you find yourself pretty disappointed in everything ,specially how your DOC has lost most of its initial appeal


PS Hail Midazolam + Hash (sorry,just too enthusiastic after having popped 30mgs Midazolam while languidly smoking some hash)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I know this sounds like a dumb question because they are both bupe but my friend tells me he doesnt get high off suboxone but subutex makes him feel wonderful. im currenly ton suboxone 1 mg, are there any benifits to switching to subutex?

I've taken both Suboxone and Subutex. I doubt he'd notice any difference whatsoever in any Route of Administration. Unless he noticed he got headaches while taking Suboxone, which is the only difference I've ever heard of.

The buprenorphine in both is identical, and the naloxone in Suboxone is ineffective.

 

[jamesBrown]

I haven't been on BL for a short while and I see that we have practically doubled our sub megathread and we have taken on some new members since I was last here. Welcome to BL and I hope you find the help and advice you need during your time here. This truly is an informative and caring environment.

Anyway, I wanted to post about the hell I have gone thorugh in the past couple of days, just like I did when I posted a few days ago about the days previous to that....but I decided against it, as it would be entirely too long, painfull, and it really wouldnt make a difference...I believe that I am capable of getting my point across with fewer words(allthough im sure this will end up being a long post either way).
As many of you know, I have been experience medical issues the past 3-4 weeks that have resulted in me having to endure non-stop excruciating pain that I believe originates in my spine and has now sread through my entire body(it had mainly been just my lower back and legs in the beginning but it has now entirely taken over my body).
I have been in yet another hospital the past couple of days, trying yet again, to figure out what is wrong with me. In case you didnt read my previous posts I had basically been treated like a junky scum-bag since the moment I tried to get preffessional help for my "mystery pain". I was always up-front with the doctors and nurses and one of the first things I would say would be that I am an ex-opiate addict and have been clean for more than 6 months....and had been stabilized on buprenorphine.
Telling my doctors this, unfortunately, turned out to be a huge mistake as they all have refused to treat my pain. Consequently, I want to kill myself most of the time I am fully concious, and the rest of the time I just sit with a blank stare, in a mind numbing pain fog(thats the best way to describe it). I have lost 21 pounds in the 3 weeks since this started, and have slept probably a total of 6-9 hr's in this entire 3 week period. I am dehydrated, weak, starving(I am unable to eat anything because the pain is too intense), in excruciating pain, and most of all, I am hopeless. Atleast I have now become hopeless. I have lost all respect for doctors, and cant seem to muster up any trust or faith in our healthcare community/system.
I do not want to recount what happened to me at this last hospital but long story short, they refused to treat my pain the entire time I was there even though I was crying and screaming like a newborn baby. My family ended up screaming and fighting with the hospital staff because of how I was being treated and they were simply told that no one believes that I am in pain and they think all I want is drugs to get high off of like a junky. Not only did this make my mother break down in tears(because my family has been the people who have had to witness me crying in pain, day after day, night after night, and they have had to to watch me waste away to an extremely unhealthy body weight, not to mention the strain this has put on my heart...I can feel it being stressed more and more, and fear cardiac arrest because I am not getting better, and no one will help) but my father too broke down and cried like a child because no one would help his son.....and I have never seen my father cry. I cant even put in words, how this made me feel. Unfortunately I was too exhausted to say or do anything in my/and my families defense......it hurt to breath, it hurt to talk, it hurt to even think. I wanted to die and give my family some sort of peace.
I still dont understand why these supposed medical proffessionals are blind to what is directly in front of them. No junky I ever heard of lost a pound a day of his body weight for three weeks and didnt sleep for weeksas well, just so he can spend thousands of dollars to get admittet to a hospital and possibly get a narcotic. You would think a doctor would understand that if I wanted to get high I would have shuffled my now weak and frail body to the streetcorner to buy some dope or oxy, etc.....
but no, these doctors take one look at the chart that says I use to be an addict, and instantly refuse treatment. For all I know I have scoliosis or some disease that causes severe pain and then death if untreated...but I doubt I will ever know that now, as I have tried several times to go the "right" route to get me well(hospitals, EMS, doctors, etc..) and that always ended in worse pain, worse stress, and just more questions.
But the worst result of what I have gone through is that I have lost the ability to get even a tiny amount of joy out of life, and I have lost faith in....well..... everything.......except for my family. Only they believe me and only they have any idea of what I am going through. It hurts so much to hear my mother cry every night because she cant help her son. Its even more pathetic because im forced to hear her cries over mine....because of the constant hell I live in now.
I ended up ripping my IV out of my arm yesterday and stumbled out of the hospital after the "pain specialist"(who i had been waiting on for 9 hr's) walked into my room and told me straight to my face that he doesnt want to help me because I was a junky and all I want to do is get high, and the only thing he will offer me is tramadol. This is where my father got into an argument with the doctor and after witnessing his son waste away for almost a month, and after doctor after doctor refused to help me, and after he had to hear his son cry every night, and after he had done every single thing he could possibly think of to help me get better and still failed,......thats when he started to cry.
.......and the "pain specialist" looked him square in the face and said..."your son is a junky, i will not treat him" and then he stood up and walked out of the room.....and then I commenced the ripping of my IV etc...
I hope that someone who happens to read this can understand how I was feeling while limping out of the hospital that day.....I cant even describe it......there I was, an American citizen, in so much pain I thought of suicide daily, and there seemed to be no one on the planet willing to help me. It was the saddest moment of my life, and I have sworn to stay away from doctors until I die(which shouldnt be long now).

I apologize for the long post, its just this is probably going to be one of my last posts and I wanted to explain to the few people who knew me here what had happened. I also wanted to use my experience as a way of teaching others of what is possible, even in the "grand" country of America. There is not always justice, and you are not always going to be treated with the respect you deserve or be given the treatment you need.
My weight is still declining, as I still cant eat or sleep, and my parents are somber yet try to be positive and act as my nurses, doing every little thing for me as my body wastes away, but I can see the pain in there eyes, having to watch there son basically slowly die. Because I see nowhere else to go, Im on a waiting list for another pain managment specialist, but its a 3 and a half week wait, and by that time my weight will be down into only double digits, and im a 6ft tall male. Im pretty sure my heart is going to fail me and I will be rushed to the emergency room and I dont know what will happen after that but I just hope that it ends up in a lawsuit and my parents get alot of money from those bitch ass, scum bag, doctor bastards. That would make me happy.
The only reason I can post this is because I took a shitload of klonopin and it is now starting to stop working so im gonna end this unintentionally long post.
I do not see myself posting again in the future unless my health gets better miraculously. I want to thank everyone here who has helped me and who have acted as my friend in the past few months.....i cant thank you enough.
I want people to read this and be more aware of there health and make the right choices in life so they dont end up like me, simply because I was a drug addict. Maybe the lesson is to not get addicted to drugs, maybe its to not trust doctors, I really dont know, but I feel that people will be able to take something away from this. I also want to stress that doctors do not know everything, and they are ignorant idiots just like the rest of us. All the doctors I have had throughout this entire experience.....not one of them knew what bupernorphine was. I actually had to teach them and they actually told me that im lying and made it up. ????

Anyway, thank you all again, and please wish for me to get better, or atleast wish that my pain goes down....even just a little would be a godsend. I would love to come back ot this community but right now I just cant. Im not really here anymore. I feel like I have wasted away to almost nothing and have lost hope of ever being the same person ever again. I now can tell a difference, for the worse, in my pain and my health in general, by the hour. I almost hope that I die. I just cant do it anymore.

Thanks for the advice, help, and guidance. I hope that all the new BL'ers will contribute to this community and make it better and better....because spreading the word about harm reduction is of monumental importance...and maybe someday, the doctors that refused to help me, will change there minds and understand that pain is pain, and must be treated. Drug addicts, and ex drug addicts are people too, and they are good people, and nice people, and intelligent people, just like everyone else.

 

[SkagKush]

hey james!!!! ^ I will read this post a little late when I have more time....

but for now 1mg is treating me very well....super stoked...