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The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine(2-(3-methoxyphenyl)-2-(ethylamino)cyclohexanone) Thread

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^I suspect brought2lyf is the lady in the "Essex Cops" saga..

C'mon Jamshyd, you're one of the most insightful posters around here, especially on subjects such as this type of compound, but I get the impression today that you may have got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. :)
 
@Skyline_GTR:

^I suspect brought2lyf is the lady in the "Essex Cops" saga..

C'mon Jamshyd, you're one of the most insightful posters around here, especially on subjects such as this type of compound, but I get the impression today that you may have got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. :)

Really? What made u say so?

@Jamshyd: Skyline_GTR is true, u may have gotten out on the wrong side of the bed this morning... whether or not, PEACE!:D
 
I think that the term k-hole is widely over- and misused. But at the same time, I find it very useful in distinguishing between two different dosage plateaus, which vary widely in particulars but which share some central characteristics. I only use the term to describe an experience wherein I lose COMPLETE contact with my physical body, and am catapaulted into an experience which dramatically alters my fundamental conceptions of reality.

I also get very frustrated with kids that use it to describe the general effects of ketamine, but I'm not willing to abandon the term altogether.

Back on topic, I can't WAIT to get my hands on this stuff...it sounds wonderful (methoxetamine, I mean).
 
I feel that the term K-hole is apropriate for the experience, what other words can you use as a way of describing that folding, flattening, freqeuency deadening state?
 
I'm curious about an combinations that have been explored with Methoxetamine.

Can anybody offer an anecdote?
 
^ "A Ketamine experience."
I thought the idea behind holes and plateaus was that some theoretical threshold is crossed where the balance of brain activity shifts to some new semi-steady configuration until that threshold is crossed again after the dissociative is sufficiently metabolized (with DXM, this supposedly only truly happens between the "second" and "third" plateaus, which seems to indicate that a distinction between the first and second, and third and forth, is arbitrary). So the prediction is that some fairly consistent and measurable shift occurs in brain activity along with a corresponding large shift in ratings of qualitative experience as a function of dose, but the dose response curve doesn't alter its trajectory so much as change scales entirely. If that's true than "holes" have some external validity and utility as concepts.

Perhaps certain other dissociatives like methoxetamine produce such an analogous conformational shift in brain activity at some fairly consistent dose within individuals?

I've personally never experienced what people talk about experiencing in "k-holes" with ketamine alone, but have in conjunction with tryptamines. Of course there I can't rule out that the distinct flavor of the experience owes to synergy between ketamine and tryptamines independent of what's thought to be going on in a ketamine only k-hole.
 
^ Wouldn't your final paragraph display the ridiculousness of the idea of "holes", then?

If you use K trying to find that "hole" that everyone talks about, yet no one seems to know just what it is or whether they've even experienced it, you're bound to miss the point.
 
speaking of holes, i had some ket on sat night, ended up on kitchen floor licking tiles and not being able to move for about a hour, did nt panic just rode the experiance out which although was mental enjoyed it all the same, now this is what i describe as being in hole, boxed in and unable to move out of the spot your in but enjoying it at same time, happy days ha ha
 
^ That's the first time I heard of this definition of a "hole". But then again, every single person I ask tends to give me a new definition I never heard before.
 
^ Wouldn't your final paragraph display the ridiculousness of the idea of "holes", then?

If you use K trying to find that "hole" that everyone talks about, yet no one seems to know just what it is or whether they've even experienced it, you're bound to miss the point.
I suppose the same could be said of "ego death" or "breakthrough" salvia trips. Certainly there's a lot of disagreement about what counts as ego death, with some even saying the definition of the words makes the experience impossible to recall (though I feel that's too literal an interpretation). But whenever there is a radical qualitative shift in experience that is not be imagined by an "extrapolation" from previous effects, and that shift is unique to that drug or a specific class of drugs, having some kind of term to refer to the result of that shift has practical merit (though I believe using dictionary defined terms are far preferable to slang). I've experienced this with other drugs in ways I've never heard others report about at all, so I don't assume that my never having experiences like these with ketamine alone is evidence that it's not an experience that doesn't happen fairly consistently for others or is not an experience worthy of distinction.

To further elaborate: being blinded by visuals can be extrapolated from the experience of having just a few visuals, as it is merely a quantitative increase of the phenomena of visuals, but experiences of higher spatial perception cannot. A high degree of ego dissolution can help you imagine further ego dissolution, but it does not help you imagine the shock that ego death will be. Likewise, there is nothing about the confusion of lower dose salvia trips that predicts having the tripper's identity replaced with that of another as has been reported by many at higher doses; disorder is an essential feature of confusion, and even though thinking you're someone or something else could be construed as being confused in a way, the fact that some new principal of order has emerged and is organizing an experience of a new subjective identity is certainly something. Likewise, there are drugs where such radical qualitative shifts in consciousness unique to the drug itselftend not to be reported with near the frequency as with drugs like ketamine, DMT, or salvia, e.g. alcohol, cocaine, or benzos, which further indicates that these radical qualitative shifts in consciousness are something.

So I agree that "hole," for dissociatives or "breakthrough" for DMT are too ambiguous to capture the diversity of these radical qualitative shifts that occur during high dose trips if one simply states they were in a k-hole or that they experienced a breakthrough without further qualification (I just assume "k-hole" refers to this or not based on what else a person writes). These terms have no established definitions, and they regard phenomena alien to sober experience that can be very difficult to relate, and so it is unlikely that consistent usage patterns and meanings will emerge organically as with street slang synonyms for words or groupings of concepts with established meanings like "blunt" for "cannabis"- "in" - "cigar wrapper". But merely calling such an experience a "ketamine experience" or "salvia experience" would be too general on its own. Both descriptions are too vague and invite readers to project anything onto them, and don't get at what makes them important. If you're unable, or just don't want to write a bunch of paragraphs detailing the essential features that make your experience worthy of distinction, it's probably best to say something more literal using established terms like "I experienced a radical and unexpected qualitative shift in experience," as at least that distinguishes that what you've experienced is a qualitatively distinct type of experience, rather than possibly merely referring to "the most fucked up" you've ever been (and so it must've been that "hole" thing everyone is talking about).

So, restating the question to those who have experienced high dose methoxetamine: is there a level of methoxetamine dosage where you often experience some radical qualitative shift in experience similar to the shift you've often experienced during high doses of ketamine? If so, elaborate.
 
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I think the word "plateau" is FAR more useful than "hole" because it imparts information that is independent of the subjective effects of a drug. The word plateau in and of itself indicates a (new) level. So much so that plateaux can be represented on a graph w.r.t. dose and time. I have no problem whatsoever with the use of this word for Ketamine or any other drug, because it imparts some understandable information regardless of the reader's background.

Whereas "hole," on the other hand, could mean just about anything to anyone and has nothing to do with gauging an experience. Its use is at best as meaningful as its omission; at worst can get people doing dangerous things in their futile attempt to reach that illusive "hole".
 
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