Questions about LSD and how certain executions work

[Alldaykk]

Okay so I recently started getting some LSD. Before I would just roll once a month or so and thats about it. But after trying this LSD, it just makes MDMA so inferior. (IMO, and everything in this following text will be IMO)

From what I understand, and please please correct me if Im wrong and you are knowledgable in this area, LSD in lamens terms could be described as a synthetic alternative to serotonin. From what I gathered it is similar in structure to serotonin enough to where it can bind to the same transmitters as serotonin does. When your on this stuff, it feels soooooo euphoric and very similar to rolling, with some key differences. Mainly for me, stronger effects on all 5 senses. Lights r increased way way way more, music sounds the best out of anything I have ever experienced, so on and so forth. And then it lasts about 3x as long MDMA, with about 1/3 (if even that) the severity of the comedown!

Now the point of me posting this is I am still in awe of this. It just seems too good to be true. Something that could feel soooooooo much better than MDMA, last several times the duration, and not release your own supply of serotonin?? But for all intents and purposes dosing it is just giving you a supply of synthetic alternative serotonin to use up that feels better then the real stuff????

Am I understanding this correctly?

I just dont understand how people could have "bad or difficult trips". To me this feels very similar to rolling with just more intense visual and audio hallucinations, but not in a bad way! In a way that you would expect if somehow your MDMA hit you 10x harder than you were expecting.

So is there anything I am missing here? Anything I have incorrect? Anything you would like to add to this?

Is this the real deal? Is this really sooooooo much better than MDMA and yet 1/10th as damaging if even that much? It just seems too good to not be damaging, like it feels soooo good that I just always think it must be just raping my brain, but from what I have gathered scientifically its just giving you synthetic serotonin then binding it up and using it instantly, therefore the only downside is some possible downregulation of that specific 5ht receptor. (only one, as where MDMA will downregulate many many types and deplete your body of its own serotonin)

I honestly find this much more enjoyable and better than MDMA, and would have no problem using this instead of MDMA at any and all future events or experiences.

So do you agree disagree? Add any and all input I want to hear it all

(Although I cant lie, both to together is best, but this is off topic and not what im addressing ;D )

 

[invert]

It *is* possible to have dysphoric experiences, as well as euphoric ones, on LSD (or any psychedelic, I should think). Equating serotonin release with euphoria is probably rather an oversimplification, but I don't know much about neurochemistry etc.

 

[JBrandon]

Not really a helpful answer to your question, but if I had the choice between LSD and MDMA, I'd take the LSD any day as well.

If you look at some of the systematic reviews of the literature out there, the scientific evidence appears to suggest that LSD is relatively harmless, but I'm sure that "all things in moderation" applies.

 

[Alldaykk]

Not really a helpful answer to your question, but if I had the choice between LSD and MDMA, I'd take the LSD any day as well.

If you look at some of the systematic reviews of the literature out there, the scientific evidence appears to suggest that LSD is relatively harmless, but I'm sure that "all things in moderation" applies.

agreed. But what mainly boggles my mind is how something like MDMA which requires HUGE moderation to regulate the risks, and is much weaker in magnitude of effects and duration, is so popular around the world yet something with much less negatives, and much more positives and power and duration has (IMO) a negative stigma attached to it that it makes u trip mad balls and go all crazy or kid like or to cartoon land, when in reality it feels so similar to rolling only more intense better feelings

 

[invert]

I think one is much more likely to experience negative emotions on LSD than MDMA. That's why it's less popular (among other things). It can be challenging, it can never be a mere comfort blanket (which a drug like MDMA can).

 

[Alldaykk]

I think one is much more likely to experience negative emotions on LSD than MDMA. That's why it's less popular (among other things). It can be challenging, it can never be a mere comfort blanket (which a drug like MDMA can).

I guess this must be the subjective part, and thats why I view it in all ways superior to MDMA as to where others dont. You see, for me, I have never had a "bad trip" on psychadelics. In fact, I dont even believe they exist. I really have rarely had any symptoms that could even be associated with "difficult trips" but I researched them so much prior because I was paranoid from all the hearing of bad and difficult trips, that I was so prepared it was easy to knock those thoughts from my mind within mere minutes.

Ive tried shrooms, lsd, and salvia for my halluc's and only on 60x salvia did I have what could be called a truly difficult trip, but not even bad.

I could see how this might change on higher dosages? But then again you could have bad experiences on any substance with too high of dosages including MDMA (noob takes 300mg or something similar to the dome, they are trippin with anxiety and shakyness and grinding and just didnt have a good time, or similar instances).

On a regular dose of LSD (IME) I have never experienced intense dissacosation. I am always aware of exactly what is occuring and why it is occuring, even tho it is occuring. And how could you get bad feelings as in opposite euphoria. Everytime I dose and come up it feels like a roll like its pumping serotonin or something, and I always was worried this was the case until I studied it and LSD itself is like a serotonin alternative so you arent depleting your own.

But I am not discrediting what you say, I in all 100% honesty, have not and will not ever experience a bad trip from it, but if you say its possible I believe you I suppose... I just feel so much pity for people that cant control their trips due to weak mindedness or anxiety, your missing out on so much euphoria. THe most euphoria possible, makes MDMA looks like a piece of shit

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

im gonna hazard a guess that you took the LSD in the same set and setting that you take your monthly mdma... Probably even go as far as say you did a lot of the same activities too?

the reason im stating this is because LSD is NOTHING LIKE MDMA.

The only thing I can see causing them to seem similar is the set and setting.

For instance, with MDMA , you get this huge amount of empathy for everyone, with LSD, you get this huge amount of wonder, they both feel similar, but are actually very different.

I would be careful the next time your Try LSD, believing that it is just like MDMA but with less negatives and more positives, is a surefire setup for a unexpected trip.

It is great, but its not MDMA, nor is it a replacement for MDMA,.

 

[Alldaykk]

im gonna hazard a guess that you took the LSD in the same set and setting that you take your monthly mdma... Probably even go as far as say you did a lot of the same activities too?

the reason im stating this is because LSD is NOTHING LIKE MDMA.

The only thing I can see causing them to seem similar is the set and setting.

For instance, with MDMA , you get this huge amount of empathy for everyone, with LSD, you get this huge amount of wonder, they both feel similar, but are actually very different.

I would be careful the next time your Try LSD, believing that it is just like MDMA but with less negatives and more positives, is a surefire setup for a unexpected trip.

It is great, but its not MDMA, nor is it a replacement for MDMA,.

Just being honest with you man Ive done it the las 6 times in all different settings. Some pretty bad settings. Let me describe one to you.

I was with 2 friends that did not know I was frying, never done lsd and would think I was weird if they knew it. So I didnt tell them. We went to the marijuana club my friend works at in straight downtown long beach. I mean ghetto ass, i have no reason to make this up. The club was owned by straight thugs. They were chill with me and my homie cause he works there, but still straight thugs from long beach (and Im a white kid) and I was back there tripping balls on the strongest cid i have done and no one could know. Can you imagine that setting?

How about getting dropped off one hour later at your house right when your conservative parents who r heavily against even drinking and weed pull up and box their cars in on your driveway and you cant leave and they talk to you.

How about being stranded in front of a subway for hours because you are tripping so much straight balls that you obviously cant drive and you have no where to go and ur in public.

Okay so my point being I have had some pretty TERRIBLE set and settings associated with strong strong lsd, and have always pulled thru. Of course my mind ATTEMPTS to play tricks, but I just say fuck that, it is what it is, and I know how to combat it.

Now other than those bad settings I have had a music event setting as well as a nature hike setting.

Let me tell you that ALL OF THE ABOVE trips have had this similarity. INTENSE EUPHORIA, i mean just felt so connected with everything and music sounded so beautiful I could cry. A car with headlights 3 miles away would drive by and that tiny little headlight was enough to send the most intense lightshow of flashing changing colors I have ever seen my way.

How is this possible? How is this much euphoria possible??!!?!?!?!?

 

[Alldaykk]

and just to add I have tripped with two different friends who do not know each other and on seperate occasions and both of them had previously rolled and both of them from their own diagnoses stated that it feels very similar to rolling, with obviously some differences but the overall experience and empathy is very similar

 

[paridiso]

Serotonin isn't the only neurotransmitter responsible for euphoric experiences, and it also has many other purposes. Dopamine and endorphins also can also create feelings of euphoria. Its been shown that LSD is a partial dopamine agonist. I think this suggests serotonin doesn't play a big role in LSD induced euphoria.

 

[Alldaykk]

Serotonin isn't the only neurotransmitter responsible for euphoric experiences, and it also has many other purposes. Dopamine and endorphins also can also create feelings of euphoria. Its been shown that LSD is a partial dopamine agonist. I think this suggests serotonin doesn't play a big role in LSD induced euphoria.

Thank you for your post. I am just trying to unlock the secrets ,my man. I mean, I will tell you what I know and have experienced, and then you diagnose it. Perfect! Basically what im sayin is i feel the same empathy on LSD like love and connection you know, i always thought that was the serotonin responsible for the feeling, but could it be the endorphins? If so, this cant be the same chemical that cocaine targets right? Because I have done that several times and its shitty and nothing in comparison and I dont like the high. (Yes i have had different batches multiple times so dont say it was shitty, i have been high on it its just a tony montana im superman im the shit high as opposed to being connected and senses increased and euphoria)

 

[Damien]

All the pharmacology stuff aside I just have to say that I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[invert]

I guess this must be the subjective part, and thats why I view it in all ways superior to MDMA as to where others dont. You see, for me, I have never had a "bad trip" on psychadelics. In fact, I dont even believe they exist. I really have rarely had any symptoms that could even be associated with "difficult trips" but I researched them so much prior because I was paranoid from all the hearing of bad and difficult trips, that I was so prepared it was easy to knock those thoughts from my mind within mere minutes.

Ive tried shrooms, lsd, and salvia for my halluc's and only on 60x salvia did I have what could be called a truly difficult trip, but not even bad.

I could see how this might change on higher dosages? But then again you could have bad experiences on any substance with too high of dosages including MDMA (noob takes 300mg or something similar to the dome, they are trippin with anxiety and shakyness and grinding and just didnt have a good time, or similar instances).

On a regular dose of LSD (IME) I have never experienced intense dissacosation. I am always aware of exactly what is occuring and why it is occuring, even tho it is occuring. And how could you get bad feelings as in opposite euphoria. Everytime I dose and come up it feels like a roll like its pumping serotonin or something, and I always was worried this was the case until I studied it and LSD itself is like a serotonin alternative so you arent depleting your own.

But I am not discrediting what you say, I in all 100% honesty, have not and will not ever experience a bad trip from it, but if you say its possible I believe you I suppose... I just feel so much pity for people that cant control their trips due to weak mindedness or anxiety, your missing out on so much euphoria. THe most euphoria possible, makes MDMA looks like a piece of shit

I've never had a bad trip either. Just sometimes experienced negative emotions, quite bloody intensely. All been worthwhile in the end though.

By the way, I don't think the fact that LSD is, among other things, a serotonin partial agonist necessarily explains your subjective experience of similarity to MDMA's serotonin releasing and reuptake inhibiting (iirc) effects. These are very different actions at the serotonin receptors.

 

[Alldaykk]

I've never had a bad trip either. Just sometimes experienced negative emotions, quite bloody intensely. All been worthwhile in the end though.

By the way, I don't think the fact that LSD is, among other things, a serotonin partial agonist necessarily explains your subjective experience of similarity to MDMA's serotonin releasing and reuptake inhibiting (iirc) effects. These are very different actions at the serotonin receptors.

Dude, dont you find it in a lot of ways similar in feeling? I mean of course I agree they are different, as I said there are certain differences. For example on LSD everything appears to be breathing or moving or morphing or changing in some manor at all times, that doesnt happen on MDMA. But the lights for example, how good is a light show on LSD? I mean its easily just as good as MDMA, IMO its about 20x better. How good is music on LSD? its amazing, its the most trippy conconction of human expression and art you could ever blissfully shed a tear too, even more so than mdma. So yes there is some major differences but also some MAJOR similarities, agree?

 

[Mudeltakappa]

Psychedelics, are by definition... hugely subjective experiences that can vary greatly not just from person to person but from trip to trip.

LSD and MDMA do of course share some pharmacology... MDMA is a (weak) 5-HT2a agonist.

i always thought that was the serotonin responsible for the feeling, but could it be the endorphins? If so, this cant be the same chemical that cocaine targets right"

The endorphin system is what opiates/opioids specifically target... the mu receptors are primarily responsible for the euphoria induced by opioids. Cocaine has no *direct* effects on the endogenous opioid system. Instead its a triple reuptake inhibitor - its blocks the reuptake of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin. It's also a sigma receptor agonist. What you should keep in mind though.... its never just a simple case of "more of chemical x makes you feel good." The brain is incredibly complex and so are the actions of psychoactives.

I just feel so much pity for people that cant control their trips due to weak mindedness or anxiety

That's a bit insulting... specifically the "weak mindedness" part. Its great that you have glorious experiences with no negativity, but there is no need to insult those who have difficulty with psychedelics. And to suppose that bad trips don't even exist? Come one man... don't be silly.

 

[invert]

Dude, dont you find it in a lot of ways similar in feeling? I mean of course I agree they are different, as I said there are certain differences. For example on LSD everything appears to be breathing or moving or morphing or changing in some manor at all times, that doesnt happen on MDMA. But the lights for example, how good is a light show on LSD? I mean its easily just as good as MDMA, IMO its about 20x better. How good is music on LSD? its amazing, its the most trippy conconction of human expression and art you could ever blissfully shed a tear too, even more so than mdma. So yes there is some major differences but also some MAJOR similarities, agree?

Sure, there is colour enhancement, and there can be a wonderful euphoria (as well as sometimes a terrible dysphoria) and body-feeling. Yes, there are similarities in the subjective experience of LSD and MDMA. But subjective experiences (e.g. colour enhancement, euphoria) don't necessarily map on to one neural process or receptor or whatever. Having said that, if there is a shared mechanism for the euphoric effects, dopaminergic action (or a combination of various other things) may be a more plausible explanation. I really don't know.

 

[Mudeltakappa]

My own idea on psychedelic induced euphoria is that its not so much the neurochemical process going on as it is the experience of the effects of those neurochemical processes that induces the euphoria. Its the seeing of the world in a whole new light and experiencing novel and incredible sensations and feelings... which is why dysphoria can be equally likely for some people. Your brain is not necessarily telling you - THIS IS GOOD, like it does with opioids and cocaine (though I find opioid euphoria beautiful as well - and find that opioids can be subtly empatheogenic at moderate doses), instead a person decides whether it is glorious or frightening... or both. Make sense? That's how I see it, but I could be wrong.

 

[Alldaykk]

Thanks for all the input once again I enjoy reading it. I have to say tho the reason I call it possibly weak minded is because Its very annoying to be tripping with someone and they just go in a whiny voice "oh I don't like this." "why not?" "it just feels weird" or "idk, I just don't". It's like u can always control it with willpower I know from experience coming up in that clinic with the thugs blazin blunts I was trippin balls I'm like what if they find out oh know it's so weird, what will they do when they fin out this guy is an acid tripper. And I was just like nah fick that I rebuke those thoughts and just focused on having fun. And yes shit was moving so chaotically and constantly I could barely focus at all, but I held my composure. It feels like a wrestling match with ur brain. In bad setting ur brain automatically starts tripping like this will not end well, and it is ur job as a tripper that wants to have a good time to wrestle that thought out and say no that's not how it is it will end well and it works out. Just how I see it and I have 100% success rate with it.

Like have u guys seen mudboy from edc? That shits inexcusable. Rolling around in mud kissing mud and picking it up in public? That is a weak minded fool, period. Sure he may have dosed too high, but that's still his personal mistake and a consequence of a weak mind to begin with. Thinking you can handle more than you can.

What exactly is dysphoria like? I've never had that.

And is it well documented than that LSD does not deplete your brain in any manor of any chemicals like MDMA? Thanks again guys

 

[invert]

Dysphoria? Just the opposite of euphoria. Bad feeling, rather than good feeling. Sometimes on psychedelics I can become rather focussed on the worst things in myself or around me. Usually productively, but it's not always fun!

 

[Damien]

Just how I see it and I have 100% success rate with it.

:D If you want to keep it that way you should stop tripping now IMO. You will be humbled at some point in your tripping career if you keep it up.