My understanding is that they're having to spend a lot of money to keep up with ever-changing regulations, and that it's actually pretty hard to turn a profit. There's too many people in the market, and basically a lot of the suppliers are going to end up bakrupt. California electricity rates are also pretty high from what I gather.
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[MEGA] >>>Strain Discussion v2.0<<<
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w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
And what was it that I said?
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
I don't think he was being serious.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
I can imagine that's true, but I can't help but feel that with some of the prices some, but admittedly not all, are profiteering. On one hand I think they should be given certain tax breaks or subsidies if they're supplying sick people but then again, the need all the tax revenue they can get.
It's unreal how much some of them charge. Here's a price list from one dispensary (not all charge this amount, but some charge even more!):
That's more than a lot dealers charge in the UK and it's illegal!
Like I said, I have nothing against the dispensaries but I think it's unfortunate that they can charge so much. If you are able to grow your own and are inclined, it's a much better option.
Well I wouldn't admit to dealing to anyone anyway online, but giving marijuana away involves telling people, which breaks the first rule of growing (if you're in a country where there is cannabis prohibition). But yes, I do have a dodgy leg after an overdose on poppy pod tea and I know what it's like to have terrible chronic pain so I am better able to empathise with people suffering.
I don't know much about how it works over there in the US but perhaps they should encourage guerilla growing of cannabis more if the electricity rates are so high (if they can prevent theft etc). Pretty much in no other agricultural industry do they grow solely with the use of HID lighting and no sunlight.
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I think dispensaries are great too. However, from what I've heard/seen of some dispensaries I think it's wrong that they charge sick people so much for their medicine (not all mind you) and I wish there was more regulation in the industry since it's nothing like buying veg from the supermarket. Despite what wolf said I'm all for their presence. What I meant is that whilst other people can go out and buy from them I'd personally prefer to grow my own
They definitely charge "street prices" unfortunately. There are some places that have lower quality outdoor and mexican brick for very cheep though. This seems to be the price that the market will bare...but in all honesty, prices are coming down all of the time. Also, what area of California you are in makes a big difference. Anywhere south of Oakland/San Fran,<No Prices - Chainer>
However, in the northern woods and mountains they have extremely lax regulation and actually encourage the industry. If someone steals your plants, the police department will investigate, often times getting your plants back and charging the perpetrator with burglary. Up there it is very easy to obtain a permit to grow 99 or more plants. Oakland is loaded with warehouses that boom literally thousands of plants at once. If you drive up there and know growers, pounds of top quality are going for <No Prices - Chainer>. This is where much of the entire country's ganja is being grown and has taken the place of logging to supporting the entire economy. People call is the "green rush"
I'm designing a LED box to grow a single plant. The idea is to have about 100 watts of red and blue diodes covering all of the walls and ceiling. A clone will go into the box, veg until it is about 12 inches, then flipped to flower. I think a very short, dense plant with a single cola is the best strain for this type of setup. The dimensions will be 1'X1'X2'(height). Sorry, I don't know the metric conversion for this. I know you aren't sold on LED, but I think they have very good potential for the following reasons.
-They come in specific spectrum so all of the light goes towards photosynthesis.
-The plant can grow very close to the light, even touching it. This maximizes the inverse square law of photons.
-They are very cheep when you build the array yourself. They also last much longer than a HID.
-The can provide maximum side lighting with the same wattage. (your 1000 watts can be dispersed throughout the room instead of all of it coming from one spot. Think of the wall of green.
-They are way more energy efficient in terms of heat, which translates into distance from the plants, which adds more photons.
My goal is to obtain the absolute maximum yield in terms of total grams per watt per hour. That is of the whole system, not just the light. Ultimately, I want to make each unit a 1'x1' grow space. That way, if prop. 19 passes, people can fit a unit here and there (they will be able to get 25 total) where ever they have room. I'm also toying with a 4 plant unit where the walls and ceilings are covered in LEDs, but there is either a low watt HID or a high watt CFLS hanging in the center.
Chainer
Bluelighter
how many times do i have to say no price discussion?
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
Well I would seriously ditch the idea of getting LED lights if you want maximum yield since basically, without going into detail, they're a waste of time and money since they are almost useless for growing weed. You can grow with CFLs but if you use them in flower you'll get whispy airbud.
HIDs are the best option by far since their spectrum is much better and they're much more efficient than any CFL you could ever buy. The lowest wattage HID I would go for is 250W, although the 600W is by far the most efficient. There are no serious growers that use LEDs, trust me.
Also I think you're mistaken about the inverse square law (as you get closer to the source of light the footprint is much smaller, meaning far less of the canopy is exposed).
edit: sorry, you mean a foot by a foot grow space! That's classed as a micro grow, in which case you'd want CFLs. Although if I were you I would make it worth my time and build a larger grow wardrobe with an HID rather than having such a small grow, which might not even be worth your time, unless you want an extremely small amount of bud lower quality bud.
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my bad chainer!
and AE, according to a lot of threads at cannabis culture by people who have been posting there for a long time and have many grows under their belt, LED can grow some killer bud. Have you used LED personally or seen a grow that uses them? I haven't, I'm just going off what I've seen over there and my experience with HID.
As for the inverse square law, LED widens the footprint while bringing the plant closer to the light source. With one source of super bright, hot light, you have to have the plants further away. With many sources of cooler light, still amounting to the same wattage, you can have the plants closer and still have the same foot print. There is also the factor of utilizing only the red and blue spectrums with a some white supplementation. And also the fact that LEDs are more efficient users of energy per photon emitted.
Maybe there is something I'm missing, but it seems to me that LEDs are the future of indoor growing.
and AE, according to a lot of threads at cannabis culture by people who have been posting there for a long time and have many grows under their belt, LED can grow some killer bud. Have you used LED personally or seen a grow that uses them? I haven't, I'm just going off what I've seen over there and my experience with HID.
As for the inverse square law, LED widens the footprint while bringing the plant closer to the light source. With one source of super bright, hot light, you have to have the plants further away. With many sources of cooler light, still amounting to the same wattage, you can have the plants closer and still have the same foot print. There is also the factor of utilizing only the red and blue spectrums with a some white supplementation. And also the fact that LEDs are more efficient users of energy per photon emitted.
Maybe there is something I'm missing, but it seems to me that LEDs are the future of indoor growing.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
Hiya mate, sorry but with respect, I don't agree with that. This is what you get when you go to forums such as Cannabis Culture and Rollitup which are poorly moderated. You'll find that very few people even know what potting up in soil is on those forums.
To save time, I'll cut and paste what I wrote in old archived thread to save time:
Unfortunately this issue with those forums has been recognised by people that are really very experienced with growing weed who have issue with the blatent bad respect and have migrated to a couple of other forums where they don't stand for disinformation being disseminated.
There are a lot of LED manufacturers cashing in on the naivety of growers with no experience and because there is a freeforall, a lot of them are posing as growers posting fraudulent positive experiences with them.
I'm only telling you this because I don't want you to waste your time or money mate, not to give you a lecture. There's only been one completed LED grow on the more respected forums that anyone's aware of and the guy got quite despondant at the end because of how disappointed he was and said he'd vow never to use LEDs again! I really don't want to have to say I told you so. You'll find that absolutely none of the commercial growers that have had any succcess go for LEDs, so that suggests something in and of itself.
What I meant is with the inverse square law there's the same number of lumens close up as there is further away, over a larger area. So, if you bring the plant closer, whilst you'll get a higher light intensity you'll be covering a smaller area. I just found your comment a bit confusing is all:
-The plant can grow very close to the light, even touching it. This maximizes the inverse square law of photons.
Perhaps at some point in the future LED technology may work, but I have my doubts and there is no model that comes anwhere close to an HID and there won't be for a long time.
Oh and you wouldn't be able to build an LED array yourself since it's not as simple as hooking up a whole load of LEDs in a matrix. The electronics would be more complex than that.
My uncle who is quite a high flyer that works for a company who is involved in r&d at an LED manufacturer seems to think they're quite a way off anything remotely useful for growing weed and has his doubts that it will ever happen, since there are other better technologies in the pipeline at Phillips et al. LED grow lights were developed by NASA for growing lettuce on spaceflights and as such were never intended for cannabis. They just don't have the ability to penetrate the foliage meaning that only the very top will get significant exposure to light. Why anyone would want to spend thousands on a technology that doesn't work for growing weed when you have tried and trusted HID lights that have been around for decades is beyond me. Perhaps you should maybe contact the commercial growers in California (if you can) to see what I mean if you don't believe me?
Sorry if I sound like I'm being condescending, that's not my intention. I just hate people being given crap advice by people who are ignorant or have a hidden agenda.
If you're lucky that £200 panel might be about as good as 6 20w bulbs for 60p from tescos. With growlights you have the added element that since the application is illegal in most parts of the world, bar the likes of California and there's no money back guarantee when they turn out to be crap so this is why the business is highly profitable.
There are some 200 lumen per watt LED's on the horizon but light penetration is so piss poor they will still have to be treated like cfl's.
LED's are only suitable for scrogs and do not work for big plant growers.
Worst lie with LED's is they don't produce heat.
I can grow plants under HPS and swap them for LED's when I take pictures if I was a manufacturer and that is why all LED pics I've seen with good results are faked because the temptation is too great.
edit: by the way, I've heard numerous reports of people on these american forums actually getting their posts deleted when they talk about why the LEDs have poor penetration etc. That is highly suspicious to me, since it's quite possible that they get payments from the LED manufacturers.
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Jake
AE is spot on about the LEDS. I use a few forums which a well moderated and arnt full of kids and noobs and the only times ive seen LEDS used(the very few times ill add) is as side lighting when HID's or CFL's have been used for the main lighting.
Go with HID if you want a decent yeild, CFL's if your space is to small but dont expect a yeild compared to HID's, and dont bother fucking with LED's alone. As AE said, waste of time an effort.
Go with HID if you want a decent yeild, CFL's if your space is to small but dont expect a yeild compared to HID's, and dont bother fucking with LED's alone. As AE said, waste of time an effort.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
^ thanks for backing me up mate. Sometimes it's hard for people to believe a lone voice when they've been conned by those cowboy LED manufacturers or clueless newbies on those forums.
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
does anyone know what makes up Sensi's NL#?
i wanted to use a nice clone in a breeding program, but that little plant is the stinkiest ive grown. i thought it was supposed to be low odor!
but it reeks of a Hawaiian to me...
i plan to use a male that will/should be very low odor, and has NL breed in already, but god damn, i couldn't imagine very many flowering, or as 8" sprouts with out stinking up my whole house.
yes i could try and use a carbon filter or air scrubber, but that defeats the purpose. plus im broke.
is it just this pheno maybe, or is it naturally so amazing, and overwhelming smelling?
this is really pretty frustrating, as a lot of planning went into this.
i wanted to use a nice clone in a breeding program, but that little plant is the stinkiest ive grown. i thought it was supposed to be low odor!
but it reeks of a Hawaiian to me...
i plan to use a male that will/should be very low odor, and has NL breed in already, but god damn, i couldn't imagine very many flowering, or as 8" sprouts with out stinking up my whole house.
yes i could try and use a carbon filter or air scrubber, but that defeats the purpose. plus im broke.
is it just this pheno maybe, or is it naturally so amazing, and overwhelming smelling?
this is really pretty frustrating, as a lot of planning went into this.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
It's a Sensi female clone that was a single female plant that was significantly more potent than any other NL found during breeding in the good old days, so was preserved as a female clone ever since. Neville brought the NL#5 female clone to Europe from the US. Since he worked for Sensi Seeds in early 90's, NL#5 clone is Neville's NL#5 clone.
I assume you live somewhere where weed is tolerated/quasi-legal? If not, you shouldn't grow without a carbon filter, whatever the strain, full stop. People will know.
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panic in paradise
Bluelighter
NL isnt a landrace, the original hybrid was developed some where with in 50 miles from where im sitting at most.
i knew that it was brought/sent to holland to be stabilized, and that there is NL, #1, #2, and #5. ive seen a #9 but,, n/m that.
hmmm, i was hoping this was just a stinker, or maybe he through in his Skunk #1 when he reamped renamed that, in place of the prior, lesser skunk 1.
Edit: im medical, and married so she doesnt want to be smelling it, and neither do i like that. its too much, its less then a foot, in a large closet, and still at odd times lofts out and into our great room, bedroom, and down stairs.
so 10-25(if sog) would be overwhelming.
im trying to put something together to grow for life, and man thats too much smell...!
i knew that it was brought/sent to holland to be stabilized, and that there is NL, #1, #2, and #5. ive seen a #9 but,, n/m that.
hmmm, i was hoping this was just a stinker, or maybe he through in his Skunk #1 when he reamped renamed that, in place of the prior, lesser skunk 1.
Edit: im medical, and married
so she doesnt want to be smelling it, and neither do i like that. its too much, its less then a foot, in a large closet, and still at odd times lofts out and into our great room, bedroom, and down stairs.so 10-25(if sog) would be overwhelming.
im trying to put something together to grow for life, and man thats too much smell...!
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Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
^ yup I know that, I was confused between that and another strain (hence the edit).
It's hard to keep track of them all to be honest. Of all the hundreds I can only really keep track of a mere fraction to be honest and even then I still get confused.
It's hard to keep track of them all to be honest. Of all the hundreds I can only really keep track of a mere fraction to be honest and even then I still get confused.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
I've had a bit of experience helping someone build a cute little micro grow using a 150W HID which turned out to be quite a surprisingly effective grow, so I might be able to help you with that if you like, Mehm.
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