Nihil - I saw the Wizard

[BloodTranceFusion]

I'm here to ask if my state is common/curable.

After roughly 2 months of using Salvia weekly, I'm having trouble getting back into "The Game" - the pretense of living within society; pretending there's meaning. I always knew there was an absence of meaning and the end is the end but I think my Salvia experience which is quasi-death (falling into a void then slowly realising that everything that I ever knew was fake) has killed some instinct inside of me. I'm not getting overly suicidal because I understand that my emotions and entire existence are meaningless - whatever I do, either way, doesn't matter. I just break down sometimes in public and drop everything/sit with no incentive to continue on my way. When I'm prepared enough to have it on-hand I take Alprazolam which helps to distract me and pretend there's value in what I do but this is a near-daily occurrence and it's absolutely soul-crushing beyond anxiety or depression: the knowledge that there's nothing. Being depressed or anxious would put some value in emotions, it's just empty now. In case I sound like I'm tripping or believing some fantastic concoction of my own, I really don't think I am. It's commonly-held knowledge but most people (as I formerly managed to) deal with it/not even think about it or who-knows-how "accept" and resume The Game.

Any suggestions on what I should do, what I should take or who I should see? Unfortunately, using Salvia helps temporarily as I'm delighted to come back to this supposedly real plane from oblivion. I don't know who to go to because I don't consider this a dis-order; it's just a fact of "life". I can't fall for divine beliefs or afterlifes and a psychiatrist can't plainly tell me "Don't worry, we'll all die, we all know it - just enjoy it while it lasts!". I can't anymore.

Any responses are greatly appreciated. I'm a quarter of the way through my presumed life and have a hit a brick wall knowing the rest's for nothing.

 

[Theroyalflush]

Hmmm.

Fuck as many women/men as possible?

Seriously though, I would look into a rigorous mediation practice (like at least a couple hours a day), along with some form of yoga practice to complement it.

It seems like your suffering from disassociation. IMO, you just went to deep and now need to reintegrate your psyche. Have patience, make mental/physical health you number one priority. Lay off all drugs, this includes cannabis and alcohol.

It may take awhile, but I had similar experiences even after one time with salvia. You just need to reground yourself (which in all honesty, having sex is one of the best grounding activities you could probably do%)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Your in a state where you are finding most human pursuits and interaction to be shallow and worthless? I'd look for something you find meaningful or pleasant and pursue that, whatever it is.

If your still not finding anything I'd brainstorm about situations in the past that have clicked but you haven't done in a while. We have points where life is more effortful and points where its not. Its not something that is easy to consciously change. An assumption that it will continue on like this can make it pretty unbearable. Anytime we do a certain drug or activity as our primary or exclusive means of pleasure it can leave us in a rut regarding everything else. I think if you lay off the salvia a while some pleasure in other sorts of activities will likely return.

 

[BloodTranceFusion]

Hmmm.

Fuck as many women/men as possible?

Seriously though, I would look into a rigorous mediation practice (like at least a couple hours a day), along with some form of yoga practice to complement it.

It seems like your suffering from disassociation. IMO, you just went to deep and now need to reintegrate your psyche. Have patience, make mental/physical health you number one priority. Lay off all drugs, this includes cannabis and alcohol.

It may take awhile, but I had similar experiences even after one time with salvia. You just need to reground yourself (which in all honesty, having sex is one of the best grounding activities you could probably do%)

Thanks!

The sex isn't really appealing to me as I'm taking finasteride to combat hair loss which shotgun-facelifts libido - not impotence, it's just not an interest anymore much to my partner's dismay. I'll consider the attempt to lay off things but it's hard with my routine and jobs. Dextroamphetamine to get me up, I crash from that then load up on alcohol, alprazolam and baclofen to come down a bit more gracefully then cannabis to completely leave the planet. The salvia has also ruined cannabis as recreational for me...

Meditation? I don't know much about it but I do know this hits me the most when I'm not engaged; sitting on public transport or walking long distances by myself.

Thank you very much for your response and optimism! Maybe with time it will subside. The peculiar thing is that it started months after my salvia use and every salvia breakthrough experience has been identical so I don't understand why so much later it's killing me.

As a salvia user, has it since affected your cannabis "high"? I've heard of one other person that's had their cannabis high totally ruined by it. Mine's now cannabis "goodbye" akin to a prolonged but slightly milder salvia trip where I completely detach after about an hour. I wish it was easy enough ot put down to just having a fried brain but I've used DMT many times since with...flying colours and a non-breakthrough quantity of ketamine. Seems cannabis-only related.

 

[BloodTranceFusion]

Your in a state where you are finding most human pursuits and interaction to be shallow and worthless? I'd look for something you find meaningful or pleasant and pursue that, whatever it is.

If your still not finding anything I'd brainstorm about situations in the past that have clicked but you haven't done in a while. We have points where life is more effortful and points where its not. Its not something that is easy to consciously change. An assumption that it will continue on like this can make it pretty unbearable. Anytime we do a certain drug or activity as our primary or exclusive means of pleasure it can leave us in a rut regarding everything else. I think if you lay off the salvia a while some pleasure in other sorts of activities will likely return.

Not humans and their pursuits exclusively but existence as a whole. For example I look at trees and am floored knowing that their leaves will fall. A stone on the ground. They'll meet their end as will everything and that'll be the end everything that ever happened in their time/lives will have been for nothing.

I think that observation about a primary means of pleasure might come close to it. Having moved away from parents for the first time I'm working two jobs and, honestly, the things I look forward to are drugs: taking, making, acquiring... while previous hobbies have fallen by the wayside.

You are right, it is unbearable not being able to break out of/ignore the knowledge of how futile it all is. An eternal ending is a sort of dampener on any activities. Something one can't easily put aside when watching a film, playing a game...

I think this might have started as a result of what I learnt from Salvia but it isn't being helped by my habits. Thank you, both of you. I'll see how I go. I see people on the streets...envious of how they stick to the rules with their jobs and lives and concerns. Envying those that can cry.

Is that an Aonyx capensis (clawless otter) in your avatar? They're hideous.

 

[BloodTranceFusion]

Just reporting back that 9 months later the severity and frequency decreased drastically and for the last year, I've only really fallen into the void a handful of times when crashing badly. From my view outside the hole, there's no solution for it, as such (we're mortal - end of story) but the constant nagging of inevitability fades. I still find myself drifting towards it with certain conversations with friends but I de-rail the subject quickly when I feel it and they understand.

Thanks, Theroyalflush and Enki.

 

[DeathDomokun]

I don't see the problem in dying and a lack of objective meaning?
Subjective meaning is more meaningful than objective meaning, for the simple fact the latter doesn't really exist.
What is upsetting you?

 

[DooMMooD]

“Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it."

-Mahatma Gandhi

P.S. I dont really want to digress so I wont continue with this point, but addressing poster above me, I do want to say both subjectivity AND objectivity do exist, and it is very logical and common sense when you consider both of them. Seems almost contradictory but there are BOTH things that are objective and things that are subjective in life.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Avoid using everything for the time being. Get heavily into meditation and yoga, and cardio exercise as well. Also eat right.

 

[DeathDomokun]

What do values, knowing and communication have in common? Each relies on us representing our world or parts of it with symbols. A symbol uses a part of the whole to communicate the whole, and depends on its audience knowing enough about the topic to know what the symbol represents.

Nihilism is a rejection of the "false world" of symbols, memories and the "knowing" of others. When we say all values are baseless, we mean they are a choice and there is no writing on the wall or Word of God or scientific "proof" which can justify them. The world does not tell us what to believe; the world just is. Nothing is inherent and we cannot prove that some value or truth is inherent. We can only elect to believe them.

We see immediately a split in worldviews:
There is no meaning. Nothing means anything, or can mean anything. It's all pointless. When philosophers say that "A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy" this is what they are speaking of. However, in our view this is a confusion. The lack of meaning does not mean that one cannot have preferences, even logical ones.
There is no inherent meaning. Meaning, values, memory and symbols are artifacts of judging, perceiving minds. Without humanity, the world just is; a tree falling in a forest makes sound, but there being no one there to recognize the sound and call it sound, the world remains unenlightened as to its soundiness. However, lack of inherent meaning does not preclude humans from choosing meaning, or from noticing that they as humans will find some things more meaningful than others -- specifically, as related to the task of human survival.

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