Do you believe....

[RainbowWarrior]

in hppd?


i don't... i'd like to establish a term like E(ntheogenic)P(ersisting)P(erception)C(leaning) for the differences i've encountered in my perception and mind after the use of psychedelic drugs (it's been about 7-8 years since my first use of entheogens)


what are your views to hppd?




*btw this thread has been created under the influence of thc, in case you might wonder*

 

[DrugOmen]

lol well im under the influence of thc and i would have to agree! except i really do believe in hppd...well atleast visually

 

[CatfishRivers]

I'm sure it depends on the severity of how intrusive it becomes to being able to focus and concentrate on regular every day reality. Each person is going to experience this differently. I like your way of trying to re-frame what the person is actually experiencing, and that might be a valid model for some people to accept what they perceive and experience and integrate it into a livable lifestyle, but for some people it's not something a mantra or shift in definition is going to help. Like anything in life, there's gonna be a whole spectrum of ways the group of symptoms we call HPPD in general will manifest in a person, and hence there's going to be some people that might help and some that it's not going to be enough of an answer.

 

[JackARoe]

Touchy subject when people need compassion and sympathy, but NO, I do not believe in HPPD. I also do not believe in PAWS yet people swear to it. These are all new terms that were not around when I was young and no one I ever knew complained of them until they saw it on the internet. Then someone reads that and says they have HPPD or PAWS and then it becomes a "fact", to them at least.

Rainbow, I like your term EPPC better. I've always said instead of PAWS how about JEAHS. (Jackarow Ecstatic And Happiness Syndrone) Hey, why not plant positive seeds. PAWS is that prolonged depression after quitting an opiate habit. But I say after such an amazing example of taking ones power back and moving past something that dragged them down, how about trying to feel good about it.

 

[Splitz]

It's about weather or not you take postive things out of something that isn't supposed to happen to us...

For example nobody enjoys having depression... but I wouldn't want to imagine myself without it. I don't see myself as 'ill' because my brain behaves in what society deems an abnormal fashion.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

The problem with your new term is that

This isnt a disorder that only occurs after use of entheogens.

Also, hallucinogens is a more appropriate umbrella term for psychedelics than entheogens.

Also, people who actually suffer from this disorder bad enough to be diagnosed and treated would probably disagree that it is cleaning their perception. I mean, the common agreement is that these are distortions of perception, not enhancements.


And about this not existing before it was made up.... what about "flashbacks?" same thing....

 

[Mr_Fluffykins]

What is PAWS?

 

[JackARoe]

And about this not existing before it was made up.... what about "flashbacks?" same thing....

I think we've sinced learned that LSD flashbacks also are not simply a result of only LSD use that had been purported at one point. So yes, I can see HPPD being something not only related to entheogens (or hallucinogens). At one point LSD flashbacks were thought to happen because a few molecules of LSD stayed in the brain only to come out later (or thats what the myth was). But we found out that was false. But yes, flashbacks can happen to people that had traumatic experiences not related to LSD at all and are real to the person.

Subjectivity is hard to prove. Some say yes others say no. However cllinical depression is scientifically proven by a genuine chemical imbalance. Yet all of us can go through periods of depression without the imbalance. Situational depression responding to circumstances.

However just looking a few things up I can see that HPPD could be an illness not only as a result of entheogen use.

I have no real opinion and can easily change my mind if some good arguments are presented. It is a good topic though that should be kicked around.

 

[BanginMyLifeAway]

Touchy subject when people need compassion and sympathy, but NO, I do not believe in HPPD. I also do not believe in PAWS yet people swear to it. These are all new terms that were not around when I was young and no one I ever knew complained of them until they saw it on the internet. Then someone reads that and says they have HPPD or PAWS and then it becomes a "fact", to them at least.

Rainbow, I like your term EPPC better. I've always said instead of PAWS how about JEAHS. (Jackarow Ecstatic And Happiness Syndrone) Hey, why not plant positive seeds. PAWS is that prolonged depression after quitting an opiate habit. But I say after such an amazing example of taking ones power back and moving past something that dragged them down, how about trying to feel good about it.

this thread kinda confuses me not really sure what the hell we even talkin about ..but i been a opiate addict for years now.. and just recently with the help of subs i quit and got it out my system no detox or nothin... gettin off the shit well once u get it out ya system and get past the hard part for me atleast is very uplifting im proud of myself and im happy to not have to rely on a drug just to function properly so the PAWS shit seems to be BS to me...i did have depression during the process of gettin it all out my system and still wantin it and what not tho.. once i got it in my mind i really wanted/needed to quit it made me feel good

 

[Mr_Fluffykins]

Ptsd sufferers often have flashbacks,

if you see visual distortion, and fuzz and things moving when they aren't really moving, and this never happened before psychedelic drugs, why can't this be considered HPPD, sure psychedelics open your eyes, but they also distort your perception of your senses, things aren't really moving around like that,

is this more just an issue of what would be politically correct to call it? if it happens who cares what its called,

George Carlin did an interesting piece of euphemisms, and ptsd was part of that subject, he said if it was still called shellshock, the soldiers might have actually gotten the treatment they needed

 

[nearjat]

I don't know man. Some of the lasting psychedelic perceptions just make things really unnecessarily complex, and it's easy to get caught up in it all.

 

[Phoenix_rising]

I believe in hppd and have the symptoms of it.I think there must be many varying degrees of it.

I didn`t even know hppd existed until you created this thread,but reading up on it on wikipedia definitely made sense.I made the link to visual disturbances many years ago after my extensive use of psychedelics,i would find that if i looked at objectecs for a while then look away into space i could still see the object in my field of vision as a negative,like in photography...Or if your gaming on a console and turn the TV off,for that split second you can still make out the image that was on the screen.

I also get trails from time to time,mainly at night,on the rare occasion i get the mirage effect on objects,like breathing or shimmering,when i am out in nature i can sometimes see the auras around trees when looked at against the sky,the auras are very reminiscent to the halo of the moon,but without so much the rainbow colour.

This i noticed after my psychedelic use,never before did i have it.

P.S It doesn`t bother me or worry me,i know that they are just visual distortions that are created by my mind,you get used to them after a while and don`t really notice them there,just on the odd occasion do you get a reminder,to me it`s a bit like tinnitus,when you have lots of background noise you don`t notice it,it`s only when your in the quiet are you aware.

 

[Big)Sky]

You dont believe in HPPD? That is a very ignorant statement. Clearly you havent done too many psychedelics.

Ive dont LSD about 30 seperate ocasions totaling in about 150+ hits. Mushrooms around 10 times. 4-aco-dmt 5 times. MDMA countless times. 2C-I twice. All within a 2 year span, and i suffer from HPPD almost daily. Usually its after i smoke a fat bowl of something super headie. All tho every now and again i get it when im at work. High stress situations, things will look like there moving in towards me. Also when im driving and i look ahead of me and slightly zone out the yellow line appears to be pealing off the road. Slightly hard to explain it but it sometimes effects my driving.

 

[anarchogen]

i think its just a "if you keep making that face, its gonna stay that way" thing

i don't think its really a bad thing, like some people make it out to themselves.
but its probably hard to tell if its caused by someones anxiety/fear whatever.

i don't really mind visual static, and subtle mild hallucinations and that includes flashbacks . but i don't particularly enjoy them, espically the rare strong flashback when i'm not on any chemicals. and separately alice in wonderland syndrome-like perception disorder.

seems to me like deleriants would cause more severe hppd.

 

[nopipesdfw]

i don't think its really a bad thing, like some people make it out to themselves.
but its probably hard to tell if its caused by someones anxiety/fear whatever.

I get perma trails, double letter image style prints behind black and white contrasts, considerable static, patterns on walls, seas of floaters in the sky..... but what the hell do people expect I trip 2+ times a week on psychs and dissociatives and I smoke weed+JWH daily.

Staying sober from all psychoactives for a week or more tones it down, but I don't mind it either way. I have very sharp vision naturally and I do sort of believe life is a projection of sorts that is current and probably pinned down by our brains than what is beyond this if there is such a thing, I enjoy my lulzy vision for my poi spinning quite a bit. My trails are pretty damn long sober compared to a few years ago, bigger moves like flowers have got to look complete in my eyes before others, and the way weaving works actually seems to accelerate my transitions into completion for all of us because the loop closes for a trick... for me to close it more for everybody else before they can see it.


All I have to say is that if you want your old life back without some visual distortions... good luck getting your perception to not branch out in function in ways besides your vision as you progress in life. Woe is me! These colors are TOO HIGH DEFINITION!!!


EDIT:

The shared visual distortions after the use of certain psychs is very real.... so are psychedelic drugs and the reality you come back to after a trip. If I had terrible vision and reading this was not easy then maybe I would feel differently, but seriously, nature looks so damn beautiful lol.

 

[phluphy_phlu]

Well, for my first, and well all 19 subsequent DMT trips I would turn on a Shpongle song which is anywhere from 6 to 11 minutes. No matter what, my trip would sync with the song and taper off right when the song ended.
Now whenever i listen Shpongle sober I get trails, barely noticeable visuals such as surfaces concaving and convexing, flashbacks, and I would get the astonishing feeling of universal union.
Also, anytime I talk about DMT or think about my experiences I get really anxious and have to try to calm myself down. This happened ever since my first breakthrough and evrytime I would try to have another breakthrough it would take me anywhere from 1 to 3 hours with my bong in hand mentally preparing for it.
IN NO WAY IS THIS SUBSTANCE ADDICTING..in fact its the scariest thing ive ever experienced.. but my curiosity gets the best of me.
My body now has a mechanism to try to keep me from doing the DMT because its so intense.. the mechanism being extreme fear.

 

[solistus]

What is it mean not to "believe" in a documented disorder?

There are people who experience persisting perceptual distortions after use of hallucinogens; it seems pretty absurd to say everyone who's claimed to experience this is just making it up. This is a condition which affects an organism in an undesirable way (part of the clinical definition of HPPD is that the distortions cause distress, interfere with normal vision, or otherwise cause negative symptoms for the individual), which meets the clinical definition for 'disorder.'

As for the OP's term: "entheogenic" means specifically drugs that have a history of spiritual use. That's neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for a drug to produce HPPD; hallucinogens with no long history of human use can cause it, and entheogens that aren't hallucinogens cannot. As for "cleaning," that is a subjective value judgment about whether what is happening is good or bad. Objectively, it doesn't make much sense to claim that visual distortions are an enhancement of regular vision; they seem to be caused by interfering with the portion of the brain that processes images. Subjectively, if you *like* the effects and find them beneficial, it's not HPPD. Also, if it goes away on its own over time after you cease using hallucinogens, it's not HPPD.

Flashbacks are not the same thing as HPPD. Flashbacks are when you feel like you're tripping despite not having ingested any psychedelics recently. They may or may not include visuals, but by definition a flashback includes mental effects. HPPD does not; it is purely visual. If there are corresponding mental effects with the visuals, it's classified either as flashbacks or some other condition (schizophrenia, for example, might be a candidate if the effects are severe and fit the profile).


If, on the other hand, you just mean that people should learn to think of "HPPD" as a residual stage of the psychedelic experience that can be channeled positively rather than viewing it as some medical condition that needs to be treated with more drugs or whatnot, then you probably have a good point, at least for many people who experience lasting visual effects. It's not inherently a good or bad thing to see minor visual distortions, unless those distortions interfere with your normal vision to the point where you can't see 'real' sights clearly when you want to.

 

[Tunnelfission]

Tripping becomes a strong memory so what people deem to be flashbacks I feel are just an immersive memory of something intense in the first place i'd also like to state that I hallucinate on a more regular basis than BEFORE I started taking hallucinagens

they certainly alter your visual focus, pattern recognition, or the apparent movement of objects that should be still. I have so much visual noise and textural hallucinations all the time that I simply ignore it.

 

[readthenewsohboy]

I have daily visuals following heavy dissociative and psychedelic use. I'm pretty sure I didn't see distinct green lightning patterns in the night sky connecting the city and the moon before I tried psychedelics. I think I'd remember that.

 

[Lord]

Man if you don't believe in HPPD you are a ******* *****. I've had a medium-term form of it, and trust me, there are people out there much smarter than you doing the research on HPPD. You aren't discovering anything true.

This post was created under the influence of THC.
This post was created under the influence of THC.
This post was created under the influence of THC.
And Alcohol