Quitting Suboxone - What's my best bet here?

[dilated_pupils]

I've been on Suboxone for over 2 years now and for the past few months I've been slowly tapering down from 8mgs. I'm down to about 1mg a day (sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more, it literally depends on how it crumbles when I break it apart).

However, I have pretty severe anxiety already and have been on Klonopin (clonazepam) and other benzos (ranging from alprazolam to diazepam to lorazepam, at one point on all three), so weening off of Suboxone has been tremendously hard on me.

I also suffer from bipolar and have been on Lamictal (lamotrigine) for about a year or so. I have trazadone for sleep but don't use it often so I have a bit of stockpile at my disposal. And last but not least, I have 20mg adderall XR which I'm prescribed too as well but I do not take it every day.

Because of my other medical conditions quitting suboxone has been a bitch and I can't get lower than the 1mg a day without feeling pretty sick - enough to keep me in bed all day. I also have chronic neck & back pain which obviously gets worse the longer I start weening off the suboxone. The issue here is I can't take an opiate to help my pain, but I need something to get rid of it. I've tried muscle relaxers but they aren't a long term medication (with soma's for example my tolerance goes up within a day or two and I need so many that I end up passing out).

Okay so anyway my main question is what should I do to get past this 1mg barrier I've hit?

I've only got 3 options in my perspective:

1) ween off slowly and use codeine to help with the sickness

2) switch to methadone and hope that I can use it to lower my dosage down to a level I can quit from without a withdrawal as long as suboxone

3) go cold turkey and just hope for the best

I've tried #3 and obviously it hasn't worked out too well. I've stayed clean for the past 2 years+ (tried to get high 2x but never could because of my tolerance so I try not to count them in but I admit I did try).

Anyone have any advice or opinions here that I have not thought of? Anything would be helpful at this point.

-dilated_pupils

 

[MiamiRoxi30s]

i DON'T THINK YOUR READY TO QUIT BY READING INTO YOUR POST

I see nothing but excuses which you may call various medical conditions but you can't bullshit another drug addict.We all make every excuse possible to continue using .

If you WANT to quit ...you will

good luck and I wish you the best

 

[Bojangles69]

/\

What the HELL are you talking about?

"excuses"? I didn't see a single excuse in his entire post all he did was inform us of some psychological problems.. how is that an "excuse"? And "can't bullshit a drug addict"? haha... give me a break, drug addicts are among the easiest to fool cause 90% of the time all their focused on is their own problems.

If he didn't want to quit he wouldn't be down to 1mg of suboxone, and I know from experience that 1mg mark was a very rough sticking point for me.

Dilated pupils:
I had switched from pods to suboxone and went on a 4mg dose initially. I quickly dropped down to 2mg, then did a slower taper to 1mg. I had the SAME exact problem where anytime I'd drop a fraction under 1mg I was slammed by wds. This happened over and over and I managed to fix it "accidentally".

What I wound up doing was jumping off the 1mg sub and straight to about 30gms of pods. Tapering the pods was A LOT easier for me to do. I wound up tapering down to about 10gms of pods, and then switched AGAIN back to sub, but this time I switched straight to .5mg. It held me well, and for WHATEVER REASON in the world, tapering at that dose was much easier.

I can theorize about why this happened, but it DID work, and it worked pretty damn well. I tapered about .05mg a day after that untill I was down to .25mg, THEN stayed on .25mg for 2 weeks. When I stopped, not a single wd. But I DID get slammed by a rough bout of paws.

If you genuinely feel stuck, don't ask me why this works, but I see a lot of people switch to another opiate, then back to the original one, and for w/e reason its easier to taper. I think it has to do with confusing the receptors, or one drug activates a different region of the same receptors, allowing the other ones to heal while you're still being held by the other opiate. Or maybe its just that your body drops its tolerance to sub while your on another opiate, and when you go back to the sub it just works much better at lower does.
I don't know, but going to pods than back to a lower dose of sub was what worked for me.

I also don't believe codiene will do shit, because I tried taking 300mg before I switched to the pods and it didn't do a single thing. Maybe a low dose for PAWS, but I'd seriously try switching to either pods, or a shorter half life opiate, then back to .5mg of sub, and taper off the sub. I don't suggest tapering off the shorter opiate because even coming off low doses of pods I was hit by wds (however not bad at all when tapering), but coming off the .25mg of sub (after *2 weeks*) I didn't feel shit.

It wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[bagochina]

For me what really helped and worked was using Tramadol to step down off my suboxone dose. I was stable on 1mg-.5mg [nasal] for quite awhile and I just couldn't get completely off it. I wasn't going to allow myself to stay on it any longer, yet I couldn't handle just stopping. I was so mentally addicted to having that daily sniff of bupe. It was just habitual for the last 8 yrs.

What I did was I just said fuck it and stopped than when I couldnt handle the w/d I started taking 250mgs of tramadol [5 - 50mg pills]. Surprisingly it completely took away the urge to get a [real] opiate in my system. I still felt slight w/d though, so minor. I think I stayed on tram for a week maybe a little bit longer. Each day dropping a little bit, eventually ending up taking half a 50mg pill the last day.

I had a little bit of panic when I realized, OH FUCK I am going to be without opiates but my determination was strong unlike in the past. Like I said above that week/2weeks taking the tram I could feel the bupe getting out of my system under the safety of the tram though. Minor w/d, I couldnt recommend something more. I medicated with k-pins and trazadone for sleep. Than when I stopped the tram it wasnt bad at all. I have been clean off everything [pills] since Easter, so 7'ish months. I often wonder what the fuck was I waitng so long for.

I was taking alot of benzos and adderall prior to trying to get off and what I needed to do was to get off those pills and stabilize being off them than I tackled getting of the bupe [that is what I needed to do for my own sanity but everyone is different]. I did take k-pins again after being off them for over a year to help with the bupe w/d as opiate w/d without a benzo just wasnt going to happen for me. I stopped taking them shortly after and think I had some rebound w/d from my prior ceasing them [confusing? yeah I was totally confused, ha]

Good luck you can do dilated.

peace.
seedless

 

[dilated_pupils]

i DON'T THINK YOUR READY TO QUIT BY READING INTO YOUR POST

I see nothing but excuses which you may call various medical conditions but you can't bullshit another drug addict.We all make every excuse possible to continue using .

If you WANT to quit ...you will

good luck and I wish you the best

/\
What the HELL are you talking about?

Yeah what the hell are you talking about MiamiRoxi? I've wanted to quit suboxone for a long time physically and psychologically.

Bojangles, I haven't thought of pods before... I have used them before but I never really got 'high' from them (I was taking OC's and some heroin here and there when I tried them, my friend swore he got high but I didn't). I made tea, and we used a lot of pods so I don't know if they will work too well for me.

The reason I listed all the medications and medical problems I have is because each one effects other medications and tapering etc...

For example, I took 5 80mg OC's (snorted 4 popped 1) in a row and felt *nothing* literally (huge waste of money) - that was one of the times I tried to get high and it was about a year and a half ago (only about 6-8 months into taking suboxone). However I started on 24mgs of suboxone originally so my tolerance went up very quickly.

And my tolerance to benzo's is very high as well since I've been on them for over 7 years now. I've taken 90mgs of klonopin before and taken several shots of alcohol and still felt nothing (I know that sounds crazy and it is but I did not get high). Xanax doesn't get me high either, tried taking a bunch of bars and never got high; I don't want to get high on benzo's by the way, but I'm just telling you guys I couldn't if I wanted to without killing myself most likely from respiratory depression.

And I brought up codeine because I've heard from others/read online that it's helped people get off suboxone, although I don't have any access to codeine unless I ordered it offline and I don't have the money to do so right now; I'm already spending almost $1000 a month on my medications + doctor visit

-dp

 

[dilated_pupils]

For me what really helped and worked was using Tramadol to step down off my suboxone dose. I was stable on 1mg-.5mg [nasal] for quite awhile and I just couldn't get completely off it. I wasn't going to allow myself to stay on it any longer, yet I couldn't handle just stopping. I was so mentally addicted to having that daily sniff of bupe. It was just habitual for the last 8 yrs.

What I did was I just said fuck it and stopped than when I couldnt handle the w/d I started taking 250mgs of tramadol [5 - 50mg pills]. Surprisingly it completely took away the urge to get a [real] opiate in my system. I still felt slight w/d though, so minor. I think I stayed on tram for a week maybe a little bit longer. Each day dropping a little bit, eventually ending up taking half a 50mg pill the last day.

I had a little bit of panic when I realized, OH FUCK I am going to be without opiates but my determination was strong unlike in the past. Like I said above that week/2weeks taking the tram I could feel the bupe getting out of my system under the safety of the tram though. Minor w/d, I couldnt recommend something more. I medicated with k-pins and trazadone for sleep. Than when I stopped the tram it wasnt bad at all. I have been clean off everything [pills] since Easter, so 7'ish months. I often wonder what the fuck was I waitng so long for.

I was taking alot of benzos and adderall prior to trying to get off and what I needed to do was to get off those pills and stabilize being off them than I tackled getting of the bupe [that is what I needed to do for my own sanity but everyone is different]. I did take k-pins again after being off them for over a year to help with the bupe w/d as opiate w/d without a benzo just wasnt going to happen for me. I stopped taking them shortly after and think I had some rebound w/d from my prior ceasing them [confusing? yeah I was totally confused, ha]

Good luck you can do dilated.

peace.
seedless

Sounds a lot like my story, I have high will to quit - I've been wanting to quit for a long time, 2yrs is just too long and I know some people stay on suboxone longer than that, but I need to slowly get rid of these addictions to prescription
medications.

Another issue I've had is weight gain ever since I started suboxone - I was lifting 6 days a week and in the shape of my life, couldn't gain a pound of fat if I wanted too; drinking weight gainer shakes with 8000 calories + 3-5 meals a day), then I went to gaining 25 pounds in 1 month after starting suboxone (luckily I was very skinny at the time) and I've been unable to get rid of it even if I work out/lift. So that is a big motivator for me - I want this because I want to be healthy again and that is what is most important to me.

I will start looking into the tram and see if I can find a doctor willing to help me ween off; I know my doctor I have right now is a hard ass about switching medications, I want to be on valium and ativan like I used to be and when I asked to switch back to them he tells me he's increasing my klonopin instead because "klonopin is less addictive" (this is an addiction specialist by the way 8)).

Oh well.

-dp

 

[motiv311]

Hey Pupils


I was on suboxone 16mg per day for 2 years. . I quit one year ago..

Its not really that bad... use the adderall to help speed up the withdrawals.... The adderall really helps after the first three days clean. Suboxone is never really too bad if you ween yourself.

 

[painquestions]

what worked for me, after I was on Suboxone for a little over 2 years, was tapering down to 1mg/day for a while. Then I switched to Vicodin for a month. After a month on Vicodin I went back on Suboxone and did a fast, month long taper. Started at 1mg and worked my way down to .25 then eventually .25 every other day.

When I jumped off it really wasn't that bad. I felt "off" for 2 days but it was nothing like real withdrawal. What helped that I think, was during the month long taper, I was exercising and had a good diet .. plus vitamins. I've been off since May and have been fighting a little PAWS here and there (especially recently) but its worth it IMO.

Now that you're on 1mg a day I'd suggest hopping on a shorter acting opiate for a month, then hopping back on Subs for a quick taper. Combined with excercise and diet. I wouldn't recommend going on Methadone but that's just my opinion

 

[TheBollocks]

Watch out with the benzos if you think sub wds are bad wait for the benzo wds...and there is nothing to take for them nothing mwahahaha no seriously be careful with your benzo intake.

 

[dilated_pupils]

Hey Pupils


I was on suboxone 16mg per day for 2 years. . I quit one year ago..

Its not really that bad... use the adderall to help speed up the withdrawals.... The adderall really helps after the first three days clean. Suboxone is never really too bad if you ween yourself.

How does adderall help with opiate withdrawals? I'm just wondering since they are not related [chemically].

And TheBollocks, I'm not quitting my benzo's, at least not right now. And trust me I know how bad the withdrawal is I've had a seizure before from it. Benzo withdrawal + opiate withdrawl is the worst though...

-dp

 

[dankstersauce]

I'm about a week off bupe. Still feel a little shitty but I've found these to be life savers (sorry if I already posted this but I'm on a smartphone and being lazy)

Kratom
Clonodine
Yoga/exercise/stretching
Packing on the calories (I'm saying everything and anything.... easier said than done but it helps.)
Loads of water
And you already have benzos so throw in some advil/naproxen and some benadryl and melatonin.

Find some good music, maybe some good youtube documentaries (or penn and teller's bullshit), good books. Set aside about a week to be lazy and I wish the best of luck to ya.

Edit: adderall will give you energy, it will beat that lethargy down and when you crash you will sleep. IMHO I've found eating high calorie, high protein to work pretty good at beating back some lethargy...so you can do the same idea without amps.

 

[unsettled]

You could get some of the suboxone strips, I just got some today, I haven't tried them yet but they look like they'd be alot easier to taper down with. I should try them and get back to you. They do look like you can cut them to any size you need.

 

[Help me please]

/\

What the HELL are you talking about?

"excuses"? I didn't see a single excuse in his entire post all he did was inform us of some psychological problems.. how is that an "excuse"? And "can't bullshit a drug addict"? haha... give me a break, drug addicts are among the easiest to fool cause 90% of the time all their focused on is their own problems.

If he didn't want to quit he wouldn't be down to 1mg of suboxone, and I know from experience that 1mg mark was a very rough sticking point for me.

Dilated pupils:
I had switched from pods to suboxone and went on a 4mg dose initially. I quickly dropped down to 2mg, then did a slower taper to 1mg. I had the SAME exact problem where anytime I'd drop a fraction under 1mg I was slammed by wds. This happened over and over and I managed to fix it "accidentally".

What I wound up doing was jumping off the 1mg sub and straight to about 30gms of pods. Tapering the pods was A LOT easier for me to do. I wound up tapering down to about 10gms of pods, and then switched AGAIN back to sub, but this time I switched straight to .5mg. It held me well, and for WHATEVER REASON in the world, tapering at that dose was much easier.

I can theorize about why this happened, but it DID work, and it worked pretty damn well. I tapered about .05mg a day after that untill I was down to .25mg, THEN stayed on .25mg for 2 weeks. When I stopped, not a single wd. But I DID get slammed by a rough bout of paws.

If you genuinely feel stuck, don't ask me why this works, but I see a lot of people switch to another opiate, then back to the original one, and for w/e reason its easier to taper. I think it has to do with confusing the receptors, or one drug activates a different region of the same receptors, allowing the other ones to heal while you're still being held by the other opiate. Or maybe its just that your body drops its tolerance to sub while your on another opiate, and when you go back to the sub it just works much better at lower does.
I don't know, but going to pods than back to a lower dose of sub was what worked for me.

I also don't believe codiene will do shit, because I tried taking 300mg before I switched to the pods and it didn't do a single thing. Maybe a low dose for PAWS, but I'd seriously try switching to either pods, or a shorter half life opiate, then back to .5mg of sub, and taper off the sub. I don't suggest tapering off the shorter opiate because even coming off low doses of pods I was hit by wds (however not bad at all when tapering), but coming off the .25mg of sub (after *2 weeks*) I didn't feel shit.

It wouldn't hurt to try.

Hey Bo. So you are off all of it now? That's cool.

 

[Missykins]

I'm confused--why would you stop taking sub in favor of another opiate like codeine? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Carl Landrover]

You can just work on making a set amount of suboxone last longer and longer as a tapering method.

For example, if you have the 2mg sub pills or a quarter of an 8mg pill, you can try to continuously make it last longer and longer. So you could either take 1mg still and try to make it last longer than 24 hours (this'll usually mean going into some mild WD for a few hours), say 28-30 hours or take less than 1mg (say 0.8mg) and wait the usual 24 hours to dose. It's basically either an extension of time between doses or a drop in the amount you're dosing (or both).

It's basically a way to slowly lower the amount you've got in your system. So if you're currently taking 2mg every 48 hours, by extending the time between each 1mg dose by 6 hours, you'd have taken 2mg in 60hours. Then your goal would be to make the next 2mg last longer than 60 hours. If I'm not explaining it clearly, I'll link another a thread where I did explain it clearly.

 

[bagochina]

I'm confused--why would you stop taking sub in favor of another opiate like codeine? Makes no sense to me.

Nothing with addiction really makes a whole lot of sense, now does it? I wouldn't pick codeine but I did choose to use tramadol to help make the transition to nothing. Same reason I used methadone to curb my heroin appetite, same reason I used suboxone to get me out of the heroin lifestyle. Substitution. Than when adjusted/stable cease that drug. Than medicate w/d symptoms with more drugs. Makes total sense, ha

The point being its not how you get to point B but that you eventually get there. IMO whatever helps one to stop using a d.o.c. all the more power to them. I know for me when I first got off subs the first thing I pretty much did was go buy some heroin. That made me real nervous as I could see myself slipping back into that life WAY to easy. So rather than go back on subs [which I took for a long long time] I switched to a tramadol taper to give me enough strength to make it thru those first couple weeks with out bupe. By golly it worked.

peace.
seedless

 

[BanginMyLifeAway]

yea im worried about gettin addicted bad to subs now i been takin em them for over a week really im just tryin to get the oc ..rc ect. out my system then hopefully take less subs i started with a half of a 8mg... then quarters which i guess is 2mg id say but i been using xanex to that combo helps my oxy cravings enuff with my shit....


its a hard switch the subs do help alot but if u still have other pain id almost say stay on the subs but if u truly want to quit i wouldn't go to methadone and maybe try the new suboxone strips cuz u can cut them and more accurately figure out how much u taking

 

[dilated_pupils]

I'm confused--why would you stop taking sub in favor of another opiate like codeine? Makes no sense to me.

I wouldn't stop taking suboxone to drop down a level and start using codeine - it would be used as a stepping stone for a very short time to curb the withdrawals to help keep me from feeling so anxious and sick overall.

You can just work on making a set amount of suboxone last longer and longer as a tapering method.

For example, if you have the 2mg sub pills or a quarter of an 8mg pill, you can try to continuously make it last longer and longer. So you could either take 1mg still and try to make it last longer than 24 hours (this'll usually mean going into some mild WD for a few hours), say 28-30 hours or take less than 1mg (say 0.8mg) and wait the usual 24 hours to dose. It's basically either an extension of time between doses or a drop in the amount you're dosing (or both).

It's basically a way to slowly lower the amount you've got in your system. So if you're currently taking 2mg every 48 hours, by extending the time between each 1mg dose by 6 hours, you'd have taken 2mg in 60hours. Then your goal would be to make the next 2mg last longer than 60 hours. If I'm not explaining it clearly, I'll link another a thread where I did explain it clearly.

I understand what you're saying - I actually just grabbed some valium and I have noticed they are so much better for me than the damn klonopin, I'm going to try to ween down now even more. Today I only took probably .5mg of suboxone and other than feeling a little chilly indoors, I feel OK right now and it's been about 17 hours or so. I'll probably take another .5-1mg in the morning when I wake up (maybe 6hrs from now? so that's 23hrs...).

yea im worried about gettin addicted bad to subs now i been takin em them for over a week really im just tryin to get the oc ..rc ect. out my system then hopefully take less subs i started with a half of a 8mg... then quarters which i guess is 2mg id say but i been using xanex to that combo helps my oxy cravings enuff with my shit....

its a hard switch the subs do help alot but if u still have other pain id almost say stay on the subs but if u truly want to quit i wouldn't go to methadone and maybe try the new suboxone strips cuz u can cut them and more accurately figure out how much u taking

Yeah having actual pain in my neck, and especially my lower back all the time really sucks, but I honestly can't see myself going back to opiates once I'm off suboxone - I don't want too whatsoever, I don't miss the high, I don't miss paying for the drugs and worrying about getting dope or a clean needle or any of it all. I've been clean, I like it, and that's that. I just hope I can find something that will take my pain away or at least help it that is not a narcotic (or at least not an opiate).

As I said muscle relaxers just end up knocking me out so I can't take them throughout the day, I mean I could take them, and I used too, but I just end up taking more than I should because of the tolerance build up and it's very easy to take too many soma's (they're pretty much the strongest muscle relaxer you can get) and not realize it until it's all hit you like a ton of bricks. One pill can be the difference of feeling much better and falling around like you're drunk and passing out on the floor lol - and much worse has happened to me than that from those damn pills!

-dp

 

[sista]

have you thought about Ibogaine?

I was on sub... nasty drug and the paws is just everlasting... I switched back to an opiate after 7 mo off sub then did a Iboga tx. Worked like a charm pushing me thru the wd and thru the paws.

Good luck

 

[Inrvizion]

Sista, please share more of your experience with Ibogaine, feel free to PM me if you want. I have been on Bupe on and off for 3 years and right now I take 8mg a day. I have thought about Ibogaine but I've heard things on both sides of the fence about it.