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Deliriants?

M

Metropolisforever

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
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74
Is this the place to discuss deliriants?

If so, then I think this forum should be re-named "Hallucinogens", since the term "hallucinogen" covers psychadelics, dissasociatives, and deliriants.
 
Metropolisforever said:
Is this the place to discuss deliriants?

If so, then I think this forum should be re-named "Hallucinogens", since the term "hallucinogen" covers psychadelics, dissasociatives, and deliriants.
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You do have a point. This forum isn't exclusively about Psychedelics as its name suggests. The description does state that dissociatives can be discussed here, but deliriants aren't mentioned at all. It's not a huge issue at all, though. I see what you mean, but it practically doesn't even matter.
 
Yes, this is the place to discuss them. It's true that Psychedelic Drugs is a bit misleading since we do cover dissociatives, deliriants, empathogens, various RCs of all categories, etc.

I think "Hallucinogens" would be a bit misleading - I don't like the term in general, mainly because it's primarily associated with psychedelics as a less accurate term for them. It's kind of like the category "euphoriants" IMO - it's either a misleading name for one class of drugs or it's an overly broad category that groups many very distinct classes of drug based on sharing one effect.

Some people argue that deliriants and dissociatives are psychedelics in a broader sense themselves. In a broad sense, many people use psychedelic to refer to any drug with 'profound' mental effects. Our primary focus is on serotonergic psychedelics; dissociatives, deliriants and RCs all got absorbed pretty much because they're smaller areas of interest and the biggest concentration of people on BL who know a lot about them is here on PD. From a purely organizational standpoint it might make more sense for those classes of drug to be discussed on Other Drugs, but there are a lot more knowledgeable people ready to answer those questions here than on OD (from what little I know of it, OD focuses more on pharmies and coke.
 
If so, then I think this forum should be re-named "Hallucinogens", since the term "hallucinogen" covers psychadelics, dissasociatives, and deliriants.
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no
no
no
and no

to hallucinate means to see/hear/etc. something that is not here (outside of your mind)

i don't consider that psychedelics make me hallucinate at all

they make me conscious of things that are here but that i usually don't notice

some people interpret those things as halucinations, but if you ask a little bit, you'll probably find flaws in their interpretation of what they became conscious of

ex : you don't see the floor waving. the image of the floor that you get is waving because it is not interpretated by your senses in their regular state

if your senses were tunes other wise, maybe you would always see the floor waving and you would see it idle when on psychedelics
there's no true or false, just different interpretations

the floor being made of 99.9999999999% of emptiness and of paticles moving at high speed, the idea that the full, unmoving floor is the real thing is for instance totally unjustified
 
^ Exactly. Even if 'hallucinogen' is used by some (e.g. by wikipedia) to refer to psychedelics, deliriants and dissociatives, it is a profoundly misleading term.

Re: psychedelics in particular: yeah, psychedelics use reveals (for me) something that scientific psychology has been demonstrating for a while now... that our 'normal' perceptions are not veridical copies of the objects they are perceptions of. I see psychedelics as providing alternative perceptions, not distorted or false ones; and I've never - with open eyes (CEVs and CEAs are another matter, imo) - experienced what I'd call hallucinations (i.e. seeing an object that I would not otherwise see; as opposed to seeing objects differently) on psychedelics, even though higher doses of LSD, for example, have altered my perception so far as to allow my mind to impose interpretations on some of the abstract forms that emerge from the alteration. Indeed, it's only on cannabis that I have experienced full-on hallucinations (i.e. everything else looking pretty much normal, but an additional object appearing within the visual scene).
 
vegan said:
no
no
no
and no

to hallucinate means to see/hear/etc. something that is not here (outside of your mind)

i don't consider that psychedelics make me hallucinate at all

they make me conscious of things that are here but that i usually don't notice

some people interpret those things as halucinations, but if you ask a little bit, you'll probably find flaws in their interpretation of what they became conscious of

ex : you don't see the floor waving. the image of the floor that you get is waving because it is not interpretated by your senses in their regular state

if your senses were tunes other wise, maybe you would always see the floor waving and you would see it idle when on psychedelics
there's no true or false, just different interpretations

the floor being made of 99.9999999999% of emptiness and of paticles moving at high speed, the idea that the full, unmoving floor is the real thing is for instance totally unjustified
Click to expand...

I have to agree there, though I think you forgot about CEVs - which are most definitely hallucinations, and auditory hallucinations, which are rare but definitely happen on psychedelics.

I don't think the psychedelic/dissociative/deliriant categorisation is perfect, but for recreational drug users it's a good system, generally someone who likes one psychedelic likes most psychedelics as a whole, the same for dissociatives, and the same for deliriants - whereas if we grouped them into the kind of hallucinations they prodused, the euphoria they produce, or other subjective effects people might have to start listing off random drugs rather than just saying "I like psychedelics and dissociatives, but not deliriants"

However, agreeing with your point - I think it'd be more appropriate if psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants were not classified under "Hallucinogens", but rather were full classes of drugs just like stimulants and opiates. Stimulants and opiates can both produce hallucinations of their own, so the hallucinogen classification is a bit misleading.
 
Jesusgreen said:
I have to agree there, though I think you forgot about CEVs - which are most definitely hallucinations, and auditory hallucinations, which are rare but definitely happen on psychedelics.
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(From my own experience only,) I suspect that a major reason closed ear audials are more rare than closed eye visuals is that people more often close their eyes (or, equivalently, turn the lights off, or look at a near blank visual field such as the sky or a wall) and attend to their vision, than they put themselves in near silence and attend to their hearing. Personally, I find that many psychedelics (e.g. LSD, 2C-C, DiPT, 4-AcO-DMT) fairly reliably produce CEAs (at a sufficient dose) if I properly attend to the possibility of sound in silence. :)

I'd be reluctant to class CEAs and CEVs as hallucinations, though, any more than I'd class OEAs and OEVs as hallucinations, because I see them more as being alterations of the perception of baseline neural noise in the sensory systems (much as OEAs and OEVs are alterations in the perception of external neural inputs to the sensory systems), rather than as being a separate hallucinated sound or vision added on top of everything else. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear... it's hard to put in to words.
 
Check the Psychedelic index, it has a link at the top of the main PD page. There are very few deliriants in there simply because there arent that many out there - though there is a list that is quite rare I guess. There's mainly diphenhydrinate and cyclizine - both pharmaceuticals. Datura is also discussed somewhere on PD.
But others... who the hell has pure hyoscinamine or scopolamine for instance.

Weirdly enough there is a medicine for stomach / GI cramps that is butylscopolamine or Buscopan. But it's not a deliriant, though I haven't tried insanely high doses of it. No thanks.
 
anarchogen said:
I just sat on my balls
Click to expand...
anarchogen from another thread said:
What hthat hwhat arrt wiat whaat are you talking abooyt?@%
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I love seeing people posting high..... But yeah, I think this forum can be used to discuss deliriants, but I don't think there's any reason to discuss them, they're not recreational unless....maybe......you're really lonely and you wanna make friends with a 10 legged spider that is purple.
 
yeah i know that but find me a single trip report where people smoked imaginary cigs and talked to imaginary people, I have no idea how deleriant got attached to nutmeg.
 
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