PG / VG and JWH mixtures for use in atomizer

[Chainer]

PG / VG and JWH mixtures [EDIT: It's been done - HOW?]

[EDIT: SEE POST #9]

Hey all,

I've got a (several) Yeti-510 (e-cig) and have had success using certain oils with actual cannabis with my e-cig (as well as VG, food grade), but now that I am getting DT'd, I've been tossing around the idea of JWH in my solutions. I've heard a rumor that JWH-018 (I will be using this as it is the most soluble and potent per MG) only works in PG at 8mg/1ml - not very effective.

I'm not overly concerned about flooding or ruining an atty... more interested in mixing it with some Blueberry Pie or Vanilla Coke flavored PG/VG.

Has anyone had any success with mixing JWH-018 into PG/VG at high dosages? The issue I am having is I have a very high tolerance to synthetic cannaboids (roughly 20-40mg smoked for a good T+:40 high, 70-100mg orally for a trippy T+:4:00).

I'm wondering if heat or excessive time to dissolve throughly would allow it to become vaporize-able by a regular powered atomizer. Again, I use a Yeti-510, not some POS "Blu" brand, and have a USB passthru for an added heat kick. I'm not even sure if JWH is soluble in either solution (doubtful), but perhaps you wizards have thought of something I haven't like adding acetone and somehow safely evaporating it into PG/VG at a concentrated dose?

Any success stories or advice? For those unfamiliar, it only takes 3-5 small drops to fill a e-cig cart. I wouldn't mind vaping the whole cart for a bowl/joint like high, but any more would be silly and I'd rather just eat it or smoke it off a bowl... this is more for curiousity sake and for the pure fact that I haven't found much info on it via google or BL search.

tl;dr: Possible to mix a decent dose of JWH-018 into an e-cig's cart worth of PG/VG?

PS: BDD Mods, if this is ADD material, or some place else, please move it to where it will get the best answers. CD is not the place. Thanks!

 

[Chainer]

nothin huh?

Am I the only one who has thought about this?

perhaps it's time to experiment...

BDD mods- could you move this to ADD?

 

[zeddikus]

nothin huh?

Am I the only one who has thought about this?

perhaps it's time to experiment...

BDD mods- could you move this to ADD?

*no sources*

Just use PG only, as that is just alcohol (actually, it is double alcohol, sorta) and the JW is soluble in it, where as it isn't soluble in the VG. Anyways, without a chemists background the saturation point is ~200 miligrams per 10 ml... giving every drop the potency of 1.1mg or so, so to get the potency you are asking per drop/5 drops just isn't feasible. Not to say you couldn't use that dropper on a hand rolled cig... but you would need a hellova drip tip to fit 23 drops.

 

[reformer]

What about trying to 1) dissolve the JWH inorganic solvent at high concentration; 2) mix with a concentrated aqueous solution of cyclodextrins and/or PEG; 3) lyophilize (freeze dry) the mixture; 4) Resuspend the dry powder in water.

This process is used commercially to improve the solubility of (for example) dexamethasone, a cortisone-like drug.

 

[MurphyClox]

What about trying to 1) dissolve the JWH inorganic solvent at high concentration; 2) mix with a concentrated aqueous solution of cyclodextrins and/or PEG; 3) lyophilize (freeze dry) the mixture; 4) Resuspend the dry powder in water.

This process is used commercially to improve the solubility of (for example) dexamethasone, a cortisone-like drug.

...with respect to 1): What do you suggest as solvent to prepare a concentrated solution of JWH-018?

...with respect to 2): Assuming we have an answer for 1), I would bet that addition of an aqueous solution woul lead immediately to precipitation of JWH-018. Alternative: The chosen solvent is not water-miscible and nothing happens.

...with respect to 3): Lyophilize...ahh yeah. Suggestions how to do this at home? The OP didn't sound as if he had a laboratory at hand.

With respect to the idea in general: It may work with dexamethasone, but cyclodextrines do not form inclusion compounds with everything. Much speculation here, even more suggested effort, both with doubtful results.


- Murphy

 

[reformer]

Not sooo infeasible.

Much speculation here, even more suggested effort, both with doubtful results.
- Murphy

Absolutely speculative in terms of the specifics of how to make it successful with JWHs, but as you probably realize I was simply parroting a very common, and well proven chemical methods of producing aqueous solutions of very hydrophobic compounds. It does work, but has to optimized for the particular compound of interest.

The only thing that would be *somewhat* difficult to do at home is the lyophilization (more on this below).

The suggested effort, barring lyophilization is quite minimal in an of itself, but the repeated optimizations would be the time consuming and expensive part. Mix JWH with a solvent that is sufficiently nonpolar to produce high mg/ml concentrations, but which is miscible with water (acetonitrile? isopropanol?). Mix in some sort of cyclodextrin-like substance into water. Mix together with vigorous vortexing or blending. That's all easy.

For lyophilization at home, I would try to freeze my mixture in a round-bottom flask (attainable at any science supply store) in a thin shell around the flask, by rotating the flask as it is halfway immersed in an EverClear/Dry Ice bath (a few chunks of dry ice in everclear). WHen the mixture is "shell frozen" to the flask, then start pumping on it with a vacuum pump (pretty common item in shops or garages) while leaving the flask immersed in dry ice at first (eventually you can remove the dry ice bath and it should stay frozen from the process of freeze-frying).

Yep, its speculative from the standpoint of being successful with JWHs, but they should work similar to other polycyclic hydrophobic compounds (many of whom this process works for).

And it would take some work and optimization, but its certainly not impractical or unfeasible to try this method.

It doesn't seem like anyone else has any suggestions to help the OP, so I figured I would try!

 

[MurphyClox]

I admit that there were already suitable solvents named for JWH-018 here in the forums, just wanted to hear a suggestion. Still the problem of precipitation upon aqueous dilution was not answered yet.

With respect to the lyophilization-step, I don't think that the freezing is the difficult part but rather application of the required vacuum. 10^-3 mbar minimum are recommended. I didn't say it's impossible to do at home, just more complicated than it may look at first sight.

Anyway, it's nonetheless an interesting suggestion. If feasible, too, I dunno...


Peace! - Murphy

 

[Chainer]

Anyways, without a chemists background the saturation point is ~200 miligrams per 10 ml... giving every drop the potency of 1.1mg or so,

Yeah, that's the problem I ran into. I assumed that I basically have to settle with either letting JWH sit directly on the atty and slowly destroy it, or just stick with vaporizing/smoking it via flame.

Would have been cool to have some Red Bull flavored highly potent JWH laced e-liquid for an e-cig on the go! Thanks though everyone, doesn't seem reasonably feasible to get each drop to contain roughly 10mg each.

 

[Chainer]

Okay,

K2 has recently released 1g / 10ml bottles of JWH-018. I'm baffled how they did this. It appears to be simply Vanella flavoring, JWH, and PG/ 20% VG.

I make my own flavors regularly - I have unflavored PG/VG food grade, nicotine, and JWH & flavoring.

Someone has to know how they are producing this. I figure if I can make my own "spice" blends at home for 1/10th the cost, I can do the same with this liquid.

Anyone? Anyone? Buller, Buller?

 

[Chainer]

Alright, I tried breifly making my own.

Using a heat-resistant dropper bottle, I filled it with 5ML 80% PG 20% VG and then added 500mg JWH. Needless to say, no solubility detected. As a test, I tried using it anyway in one of my dying atties (this will kill your atty pretty fast, I've found.... one way I did this is by dropping 20mg JWH-018 right onto the atty and then 3 drops of French Press Coffee flavored PG). I did get pretty high, though rather slowly. It certainly works and there is no odor. It was a very crude method.

I decided to try a bit more advanced heating method. I boiled water for 15 minutes, then placed the 5ML bottle containing 500mg JWH into the water for 30 min, shaking every 2-3 minutes. The solution mixed far better, though again, not completely. I would venture to guess it will still drain the battery quiet a bit as well as ruin the atty, but a bit slower. Not a problem for me as I find that atties for my 510-yeti are very cheap, even self-modded MEGA ATTIES w/ MEGA batteries.

I found roughly 20 drops from the standard 10ML bottle = 1ML. Therefore, I used about 5 drops directly onto the atty (again, this floods it, causing damage). I estimated I get about 15MG JWH per 5 drops, which takes roughly 20 minutes to vape using my Yeti510. The mega atty takes less time and can handle more drops.

Not a perfect solution, but I feel it is one step closer and it is 1/20th of the cost of buying a the new pre-made blends of JWH e-liquid which is now circulating.

Just thought I'd pass that along. Anyone with a better idea should let me know stat, I'm pretty happy with my results but would be looking for a more potent dosage as this method provides me with a long, medium buzz, rather than a rushy strong buzz.

I never liked vaping JWH as it always left an odder feeling than smoking it in a home-made blend, but this is a nice method for smoking indoors in the most discrete manner possible. No smell whatsoever