RCs Is MDPV An Amphetamine?

[love_sex_desire]

Considering cathinone is also known as β-Ketoamphetamine it is undoubtedly an amphetamine. Since MDPV is a substituted cathinone I was wondering if MDPV is considered an amphetamine?

 

[adder]

From what point of view? From my chemical point of view I say it's an analog of amphetamine.

 

[love_sex_desire]

^ I am wondering if it is a type of amphetamine. Does it contain amphetamine within it's chemical structure?

DOB is an amphetamine, cathinone is an amphetamine, is MDPV an amphetamine?

 

[Soap MacTavish]

Don't know about chemically. All I find is it is supposedly a cathinone derivative mimic of Pyrovalerone. Then I've only read it is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor. In effect it certainly feels like a close relative of methamphetamine, maybe a little more intense, and minus significant euphoria or entactogen qualities. It's a cold hump.

 

[DavisK4high247]

It is not an amphetamine but is a Pyrovalerone analogue like Soap ManTavish said.

 

[love_sex_desire]

^ Can a mod move this to ADD?

I'd like to see their response to my reasoning that:

Since MDPV is a substituted cathinone and since cathinone is an amphetamine does this not mean that MDPV is an amphetamine?

 

[stirfry]

^it depends on how you classify an amphetamine.

Personally, I wouldn't consider it one.

While you can see the amphetamine structure at the heart of MDPV, it has significant substitutions on it. I think the alpha propyl group is a good enough reason not to consider it an amphetamine, after all, amphetamine is a conjunction of alpha-methyl-phenylethylamine. Also, the mechanism of action for MDPV is distinct from amphetamine. MDPV acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, while amphetamine is a dopamine releaser. This makes MDPV more similar to cocaine or methylphenidate than amphetamine like stimulants. Dopamine releasing drugs tend to resemble amphetamine itself far more closely than MDPV. I would consider "amphetamines" as amphetamine with secondary N-substitutions and/or phenyl ring substitutions.

But, more loosely speaking, it is a strong psycho-motor stimulant that is phenylethylamine based and has generally similar effects to amphetamine. I think a lot of the population would refer to any such drug as an amphetamine, despite the finer pharmacological and chemical distinctions.

In the end, it's just semantics anyway. it is what it is.

hope that helps!

 

[punchednthenose]

I believe that it IS in the amphetamine family considering how closely related to other amphetamines it is.

 

[Soap MacTavish]

In my experience it not only walk and talks like an amphetamine, it can also completely substitute for existing amphetamine dependence and withdrawal. However, this can get very tricky and dangerous with PV since the dosing is extremely sensitive, the falloff curve is extremely steep, and the duration of effects is shorter acting than amphetamines. This easily encourages and rewards heavy re-dosing to maintain perceived stability. This is where PV gets its rep as being "worse than meth" and "the crack of RC's".

Not that it really matters, I agree that classification of the drug family is really semantics.

 

[Jamshyd]

It is an alpha-methylated-phenethylamine at its core, but so is LSD. The amphetamine structure is definitely there. So are the phenethylamine and cathinone backbones. It all depends on where you put the cap. IMO, if something no longer functions like an amphetamine and can be classified into a more specific group (pyrovalerones in this case), it should.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It is an alpha-methylated-phenethylamine at its core, but so is LSD. The amphetamine structure is definitely there. So are the phenethylamine and cathinone backbones. It all depends on where you put the cap. IMO, if something no longer functions like an amphetamine and can be classified into a more specific group (pyrovalerones in this case), it should.

Jamshyd said it well.

And no, I don't think this is quite ADD material. Just my opinion.

 

[love_sex_desire]

Wasn't MDPV banned in the UK based on their classification of MDPV as a substituted cathinone?

If it is considered a substituted cathinone I would think it could be considered an amphetamine.

That is my line of reasioning but I like Jamshyd's explanation, and I didn't know that LSD has a methyl on the alpha position of the phenethylamine structure.

So LSD has tryptamine, phenethylamine, amphetamine and ergoline skeletons all within it's structure? Wow. Such an interesting compound. =)

 

[iceicebaby]

MDPV itself actually has a structure very similar to that of 3,4methylenedioxymethamphetamine, or MDMA (Ecstasy) but this drug is without the loving and happy effects . . . it's purely stimulant affects and does have an amphetamine like comedown. So it is related, but I don't think it should be classified as an amphetamine, it's purely an analog of pyrovalerone. I do like Jamshyd's explanation of this as well :D.

 

[TheAzo]

I'd be inclined to say it's not. There's clear structural similarity, but there are also a lot of differences.

Amphetamines do not have the ketone - calling a cathinone an amphetamine is imo not accurate. Amphetamine, and the things we refer to as amphetamines, do not have the beta keto group - That changes their chemical properties (for one thing, they're a hell of a lot less stable - they will break down in the presence of water over time, whereas water solutions of amphetamine will last ages), changes their production process (makes it easier). Their biological action is also different - the amphetamines act as monoamine releasers; most of the cathinones are reuptake inhibitors (though some also act as releasers). They are also metabolized differently, as the beta-ketone gets reduced to the alcohol (probably contributing to the lasting peripheral sideffects many report).

MDPV is far closer to a cathinone than an amphetamine, in terms of effects, structure, and properties.

They're different, though related, families of drugs.

 

[love_sex_desire]

I'd be inclined to say it's not. There's clear structural similarity, but there are also a lot of differences.

Amphetamines do not have the ketone - calling a cathinone an amphetamine is imo not accurate.

I think people are confusing the parent compound "amphetamine" with the amphetamine class of compounds. DOM is not similar to the parent compound amphetamine in effects but it is still classified as a type of amphetamine. Cathinone is much closer to amphetamine in effects and sructure compared to DOM. Calling cathinone an amphetamine is much more accurate than calling DOM an amphetamine and in truth they are both categorized under the amphetamine class of compounds.

Cathinone is slightly more complex than the parent compound "amphetamine" but it is still part of the phenethylamine, amphetamine and cathinone classes in order of increasing complexity.

Amphetamine, and the things we refer to as amphetamines, do not have the beta keto group -

That is like saying amphetamine is not a phenethylamine because phenethylamines do not have the alpha-meyhyl group. Adding further substitutions does not mean the chemical is no longer part of the less compex classes, it simply means a chemical can be classified under the less complex classes as well as more complex classes. Amphetamine is part of the phenethylamine and amphetamine classes, but not the cathinone class and cathinone is part of all three classes. Likewise methamphetamine is part of the phenethylamine and amphetamine classes but not the cathinone class and methcathinone is part of all three classes.

That changes their chemical properties (for one thing, they're a hell of a lot less stable - they will break down in the presence of water over time, whereas water solutions of amphetamine will last ages), changes their production process (makes it easier). Their biological action is also different - the amphetamines act as monoamine releasers; most of the cathinones are reuptake inhibitors (though some also act as releasers). They are also metabolized differently, as the beta-ketone gets reduced to the alcohol (probably contributing to the lasting peripheral sideffects many report).

MDPV is far closer to a cathinone than an amphetamine, in terms of effects, structure, and properties.

They're different, though related, families of drugs.

The parent compounds cathinone and amphetamine are extremely closely related in structure, so saying MDPV is far closer to a cathinone than an amphetamine based on structure alone does not make sense as nothing can be far closer in structure to a cathinone than an amphetamine based on how similar they are structurally. If a compound is close in structure to a cathinone than it is inherently close in structure to an amphetamine.

I agree in terms of effects and properties MDPV is closer to cathinone, but I don't know if it would be accurate to say far closer.


If we can agree that MDPV is a cathinone than we are also stating that MDPV is an amphetamine. If we can not agree that MDPV is close enough to be considered a cathinone than the debate about whether MDPV can be considered an amphetamine is still unsettled.

The slight structural differences between cathinone and amphetamine make it impossible to consider any compound to be absolutely without question considered a cathinone but not an amphetamine.

Considering MDPV was made illegal in the UK based on their cathinone clause means by UK law they consider MDPV to be a cathinone. In this case considering the UK law considered MDPV to be a cathinone they must also consider MDPV to be an amphetamine.

I suppose since considering MDPV to be a cathinone is a bit of a stretch MDPV might just make the cut to be considered a cathinone but not an amphetamine based on the ever so slight further complexity of the further substitution of cathinone, but I still can't believe that any compound considered a cathinone would not also be considered an amphetamine. The structural change is negligible.


Since considering MDPV to be a cathinone is a bit of a stretch it is safe to say that it is not obviously an amphetamine, but MDPV could be considered a cathinone and an amphetamine, although distantly.

I suppose my next question would be is MDPV considered a cathinone?