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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Suboxone questions

A

allecw

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
121
I have looked for an answer to this question on the search engine so please dont tell me to search for the answer. I am trying to switch back over to oxy for a week or so from my subs which I have been on for about a month now. I snort maybe 1.5-2mg a day. It's hard to tell how much cause I grind it into fine powder with a hose clamp. Sublingual actually was too strong for me for some reason so snorting is my preferred method for now.

So what I'm wondering isn't how long I have to wait. It is If I last took my 1mg sub dose 24 hours ago and am feeling slight sub withdrawals will my oxy make those withdrawals go away? I know a lot of people will say your wasting it but if I don't want to get high I just want to make the withdrawals go away will this work? I can wait a few days to get messed up I just want to feel ok until then. Btw I have 30mg roxis. I used to feel good on just one maybe two.

I know a lot of people say that sub withdrawal doesn't start for like three days but I swear after 24 hours I feel like crap! Maybe it's cause I'm snorting it? I just prefer the way it feels as opposed to sublingual.

Also a kinda unrelated question I have been thinking about. If someone who isn't at all addicted to opiates took some oxy then ten minutes later took a sub would it send them into withdrawals? Or do you have to be physically addicted to opiates? This might be a stupid question but I was just wondering.
 
if u take an opiate, then take a sub: precipiated withdrawl
if u r taking subs, wait 24-48hrs before you dose an opiate to get its full effect, if taking subs at 2mg/4mg in a day u can take an opiate afterwards but wont get the FULL effect, you will still get effect

make a decision if u want to quit opiates and just stay on subs and dont worry bout precip. w/d's, effectiveness of an opiate if taken a sub, etc...

in general, once ur in WD from an opiate, i suggest 4mg of suboxone, u will be w/d free. if u wanna use opiates again, generlly wait 24-48hrs after ur last bupe dose to get all effect from opiate.

suboxone has a long half life...for me personally, if i take my suboxone today, the day after tomorrow ill feel the w/d. sometimes the next day i feel w/d..it all depends on how much u take...typically 48 hours u will feel WD
 
72 hours without Buprenorphine and you will feel the full effects of the Oxycodone.

May I ask *why*-- if you are on Suboxone maintenance-- would you want to "switch" to Oxycodone for one week?

The idea of Suboxone maintenance is to relieve you from your desire to use Opiates/oids, and to block the effects of any if you do decide you want to use them.

Unless you're not actually on Suboxone maintenance. If so, disregard my question.

Also, in response to your last question-- If you *truly* aren't physically addicted to any full Opiate/oid agonists, the only thing that would happen if you took a Suboxone 10 minutes after taking Oxycodone is that your Oxycodone high would disappear and be replaced with a Buprenorphine high (if you are one of the people who actually feel high from Buprenorphine). You will not go into withdrawals, unless you are actually physically addicted to Opiates/oids.

Hope that helps in one way or another.
 
I'm curious to why you are feeling like crap only 24 hours without your last Suboxone dose. I'm on Suboxone maintenance and if I go 24 hours without my Suboxone I may not feel the mood lifting effects anymore but no withdrawals. I've gone 48 hours without it and I don't feel so great but its after 72 hours that I begin feeling withdrawals. I've gone this long w/o because I was attempting to get high from oxycodone for a little while...I know it defies the purpose of maintenance and it was something I shouldn't have done.

You can take another opiate 24 hours after though but just as you mentioned in your post, you won't feel the full effects from the oxycodone. The withdrawals will go away. I'd estimate that you'd have to wait about 48-72 hours to be able to feel the full effects.

If you were to take an opiate 10 minutes after taking your last dose of Suboxone, yes you would go into withdrawals.
 
Thanks for the responses but I still don't think I got an answer on my main question. If I take the oxy after 24 hours I know I won't get full effect but will the bupe still block it from helping me with my bupe withdrawal? I know I won't feel the oxy high but will the bupe block every bit of oxy.?Where it wouldn't even help with the bupe withdrawal? I understand it's a waste if I want to get high but if I just use the oxy to stay out of bupe withdrawal for three or so days until I can take the oxy and get full effect.
 
Thanks for the answer kd. You posted your response while I was typing my last post.

Also I don't know why I feel crappy after such a little amount of time. When I used them sublingual they would last days. So I figured it was cause I was snorting them. I don't snort them to get high I just snort them cause I can tolerate subs much more that way. For some reason subs were way too powerful when I took them sublingually.

So your saying if I was going through sub withdrawal enough oxy would get through to at least stop the withdrawal?
 
loulou reed said:
It's the other way around. You just won't feel the other opiate.
Click to expand...

Correct. If you are not physically addicted to Opiates/oids the only thing that will happen after taking a Suboxone 10 minutes after taking Oxycodone is that the Oxycodone will be ripped from your receptors and be replaced with Buprenorphine. You can't go into withdrawal for something that you're not addicted to.

If you *are* addicted however... then you will go in to precipitated withdrawals.
 
allecw said:
Thanks for the answer kd. You posted your response while I was typing my last post.

Also I don't know why I feel crappy after such a little amount of time. When I used them sublingual they would last days. So I figured it was cause I was snorting them. I don't snort them to get high I just snort them cause I can tolerate subs much more that way. For some reason subs were way too powerful when I took them sublingually.

So your saying if I was going through sub withdrawal enough oxy would get through to at least stop the withdrawal?
Click to expand...

Yes, taking enough oxycodone will prevent the withdrawals of Suboxone and 24 hours is safe.
 
VFORV4AN1 said:
Correct. If you are not physically addicted to Opiates/oids the only thing that will happen after taking a Suboxone 10 minutes after taking Oxycodone is that the Oxycodone will be ripped from your receptors and be replaced with Buprenorphine. You can't go into withdrawal for something that you're not addicted to.

If you *are* addicted however... then you will go in to precipitated withdrawals.
Click to expand...

Sorry about my incorrect response, I was thinking the opposite for some reason. Duh 8) Maybe it was 'cuz the bowl I just smoked.
 
K'd-OUT-in-AZ said:
I'm curious to why you are feeling like crap only 24 hours without your last Suboxone dose. I'm on Suboxone maintenance and if I go 24 hours without my Suboxone I may not feel the mood lifting effects anymore but no withdrawals. I've gone 48 hours without it and I don't feel so great but its after 72 hours that I begin feeling withdrawals. I've gone this long w/o because I was attempting to get high from oxycodone for a little while...I know it defies the purpose of maintenance and it was something I shouldn't have done.

You can take another opiate 24 hours after though but just as you mentioned in your post, you won't feel the full effects from the oxycodone. The withdrawals will go away. I'd estimate that you'd have to wait about 48-72 hours to be able to feel the full effects.

If you were to take an opiate 10 minutes after taking your last dose of Suboxone, yes you would go into withdrawals.
Click to expand...



Im curious myself as to why sometimes when i take my dose of suboxone, the next day i start to feel withdrawl, i know it's not mental, i feel the classic mild W/D symptoms (frequent yawning, watery eyes,fatigue) on average however, if i dose today(sunday) usually on tuesday is when i will start to be in W/D, and as the days pass it gets worse and more agonizing and lasts atleast 3 weeks the god awful slow/moderate withdrawl suboxone provides. I am prescribed 3 a day, but on average i only take at the most 2 subs a day (16mg), it does have its benefits for me too, it wakes me up in the morning, enlightens my mood, and gives me energy, i used to not be able to take it at nighttime as it used to keep me up, but it helps me sleep at night and i like to dose at night because i when i was using opiates i used to wake up in the middle of the night a few times with the munchies, smoking cigarettes, feeling good, and suboxone does the same thing for me which i found enjoyable, plus i "pipe dream" as i call it, where when im stilll awake, with my eyes close i can dream or as they call it CEV's (Closed Eye Visuals). Yeah Suboxone is great, got me off the heroin, and it's efects are positive and not in an addictive way like heroin, another A++ is the fact, once i laid off suboxone for a few days so i could do heroin/opiates, and i literally, truely was disgusted with how opiates made me feel, as i was high i said to myslef (gosh i cannot wait until tomorrow when i can go back to my suboxone, this heroin/opiate shit isnt for me anymore.so i lost my touch to opiates, ONE LESS ADDICTION OFF MY BELT :-)

Im probably shifting off topic so i apologize, but i never liked crack/cocaine, figured i try it again and see if i benefit from it, well my luck i got hooked so im struggling with that now, so right now im prescribed Dexedrine, which helps TREMENDOUSLY as a substitute for crack/cocaine addiction, i take it a little over as prescribed (45mg) and im cocaine craving free, plus feeling great all day on dexedrine with no crash whatsoever or bad side effects. last but not least, my benzo habit i need to keep under control..takes jup to 6-10mg xanax/klonopin for relief...

but yeah in general it takes 2 days until i feel suboxone withdrawl.
 
opiatekrzy said:
Im curious myself as to why sometimes when i take my dose of suboxone, the next day i start to feel withdrawl, i know it's not mental, i feel the classic mild W/D symptoms (frequent yawning, watery eyes,fatigue) on average however, if i dose today(sunday) usually on tuesday is when i will start to be in W/D, and as the days pass it gets worse and more agonizing and lasts atleast 3 weeks the god awful slow/moderate withdrawl suboxone provides. I am prescribed 3 a day, but on average i only take at the most 2 subs a day (16mg), it does have its benefits for me too, it wakes me up in the morning, enlightens my mood, and gives me energy, i used to not be able to take it at nighttime as it used to keep me up, but it helps me sleep at night and i like to dose at night because i when i was using opiates i used to wake up in the middle of the night a few times with the munchies, smoking cigarettes, feeling good, and suboxone does the same thing for me which i found enjoyable, plus i "pipe dream" as i call it, where when im stilll awake, with my eyes close i can dream or as they call it CEV's (Closed Eye Visuals). Yeah Suboxone is great, got me off the heroin, and it's efects are positive and not in an addictive way like heroin, another A++ is the fact, once i laid off suboxone for a few days so i could do heroin/opiates, and i literally, truely was disgusted with how opiates made me feel, as i was high i said to myslef (gosh i cannot wait until tomorrow when i can go back to my suboxone, this heroin/opiate shit isnt for me anymore.so i lost my touch to opiates, ONE LESS ADDICTION OFF MY BELT :-)

Im probably shifting off topic so i apologize, but i never liked crack/cocaine, figured i try it again and see if i benefit from it, well my luck i got hooked so im struggling with that now, so right now im prescribed Dexedrine, which helps TREMENDOUSLY as a substitute for crack/cocaine addiction, i take it a little over as prescribed (45mg) and im cocaine craving free, plus feeling great all day on dexedrine with no crash whatsoever or bad side effects. last but not least, my benzo habit i need to keep under control..takes jup to 6-10mg xanax/klonopin for relief...

but yeah in general it takes 2 days until i feel suboxone withdrawl.
Click to expand...

I think that its the mood enlightening effects that help so much with keeping me clean. I'm not prescribed as much as you, only 2mg because I've been tapering but it has really helped me get and stay off the heroin and OxyContin (with only one slip from the oxycodone. I felt bad about it.) for the last year.
 
yeah, i usually only take 4mg in the morning or 3/4. and a 3/4 at night. see i wishi could taper off of suboxone, but i cant because ill end up using opiates again suboxone has been a life saver..
 
If you wait 24 hours after the last sub dose to take an oxy, the oxy will be weakened somewhat. Sub has a half life on average of 36 hours, so you'll still have quite a bit in your body to block the receptors. However, at that low of a dose of sub, your receptors are not saturated completely, so you'll still get some effect. The sub also has raised your tolerance to opiates in general, which will reduce the effects of the oxy quite a bit. People don't realize just how powerful buprenorphine is -- when I was opiate naive, 0.15mg of sublingual buprenorphine had me nodding for 12 hours.

As to the other part of the discussion -- if someone completely opiate naive took some oxy, then took sub, they would indeed experience a brief precipitated withdrawal. You do not need to be physically dependent to experience precip WD, it is just much worse.

This is how they test effectiveness of withdrawal aids: They take opiate naive people, give them a dose of morphine or some other opiate, then hit them with naltrexone or naloxone. That causes a precipitated withdrawal, which they can then attenuate with whatever intervention they're testing.

A recent example you can see for yourself is the testing on using zofran to ease opiate withdrawal. They "simulated" opiate withdrawal by giving someone WITHOUT a habit some morphine, then giving them zofran, then giving them naloxone, and compare their WD effects to those who didn't get the zofran. Just the action of a mu agonist being "ripped" from the receptor causes a brief wd syndrome even in the non-dependent.

If a person does have a physical dependence, the precipitate WD is much much worse though.
 
Here's a link talking about it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ag2gM1ea10XM&refer=home

"In the study, researchers pretreated eight healthy men with odansetron or placebo before inducing opioid withdrawal with an injection of morphine and naloxone, a drug used to counteract morphine. Odansetron pretreatment reduced signs of withdrawal."

Precipitated withdrawal is horrific -- it's like 7 days of heroin withdrawal wrapped up in 12 hours.
I stupidly once tried to do an "ultra-rapid" detox of myself at home. I took naltrexone when I had a large H habit. I only took about 5mg, but within minutes I was writhing around in pain, vomitting and shitting myself.

I've also been hit with Narcan twice, while on 80mg of methadone maintanence. Came to convulsing and vomitting in an ambulance. Naloxone is short-lived, though, and within an hour it had worn off and the methadone had kicked back in.

I've also had precip WD from buprenorphine, but it was mild and within a few minutes the agonist effects took over and I felt fine.
 
Keep in mind you only get precip withdrawal if you have a mu agonist in you THEN take an antagonist/mixed agonist with higher binding affinity.

So if you're already on bup, then take oxy, you won't get precip WD, you'll just get reduced effect of the oxy.
If you take oxy, THEN take the bup, you risk the precip WD.
 
jb0nez said:
Here's a link talking about it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ag2gM1ea10XM&refer=home

"In the study, researchers pretreated eight healthy men with odansetron or placebo before inducing opioid withdrawal with an injection of morphine and naloxone, a drug used to counteract morphine. Odansetron pretreatment reduced signs of withdrawal."

Precipitated withdrawal is horrific -- it's like 7 days of heroin withdrawal wrapped up in 12 hours.
I stupidly once tried to do an "ultra-rapid" detox of myself at home. I took naltrexone when I had a large H habit. I only took about 5mg, but within minutes I was writhing around in pain, vomitting and shitting myself.

I've also been hit with Narcan twice, while on 80mg of methadone maintanence. Came to convulsing and vomitting in an ambulance. Naloxone is short-lived, though, and within an hour it had worn off and the methadone had kicked back in.

I've also had precip WD from buprenorphine, but it was mild and within a few minutes the agonist effects took over and I felt fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info
 
precip w.d is alot worse then heroin WD, omg it was so horrible, i ate 20 lortabs one nite as in W/D,....still was in W/D........next morning sniffed 2mg bupe, aallo off a sudden i was hot cold hot cold, puking all in the car,, far worse then heroin WD..ughhhh cant eveb think bout it
 
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