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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Does "Pain Managment Specialist" = no more drugs?

John_Burrows

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
1,007
After 2 years of perscribing me dilaudid every month for inoperable back pain, my general doc has decided to stop writing narcotic scripts and is referring all his pain patients to a pain management specialist.

Does anyone have experience with a situation like this? I just got the letter today and have no idea what to expect.

Naturally I fear this guy's job is going to be to stop scripting narcotics.

I freely admit to being hooked on the dillies, but I do have a legit need for them and as much as it would be nice to kick the habbit, the dilaudid really does take the edge off my daily pain and allows me to function!

Any and all experiences with this sort of thing would be appreciated. They sent me a long list of docs to choose from but I have no clue where to even start...
 
having to go through a pain management doctor for your scripts doesn't necessarily mean no more pain meds, but it definitely means that you will be dealing with alot more scrutiny. Be ready to sign a pain management contract with stipulations such as being required to bring your pills to the office for a count at the doctor's discretion, submitting to regular urinalysis, agreeing not to use street drugs (not sure if you smoke pot but if you do it will be a no no because a dirty urine means punishment of some sort i.e. no meds til you can piss clean), and other assorted hoops to jump through.. More than likely agreeing to do these things and doing them is pretty much the only way you will be able to continue to get your pain medicine.

You might get lucky and the pain management doctor you pick might not require these things, but everyone who I have ever known that obtained their meds through a pain management doctor had to do the things I mentioned above. If you have any more questions ask. I am not sure if I will be able to answer them but someone should be able to.
 
Naturally I fear this guy's job is going to be to stop scripting narcotics.

Oh my God, nothing could be further from the truth. When you talk pain management docs., I think shit loads of pills. Without a pain doc., I could never have developed such a habit.

So what you do, is take the list and start talking and doing some detective work. Ask people if they know the doc., and what they think of him/her. Go visit the office and catch someone leaving and start talking. IMO an anesthesiologist makes the very best ones. Before, I ever started, I knew who I wanted to see, by talking to people. I just had to figure out how to get in, because he only took recommendations from other docs. After 2 years, I finally got that.

At the time, I was just taking Lortabs. The first thing he through me on was 40mg of Methadone. After around a month, I stirred him to Oxy. Before very long, I was getting 60 Oc 80s and 180 Roxy 30s a month. I don't know a "regular" doc. that would touch that amount. In fact, I never told my regular doc. He would have shit right then and there.

Honestly, now I wish I had not known as much as I did. I want off 'em now, but of course thats easier said than done. Having to do it over, I would have avoided the pain doc. But not for the reason of meager scripts, quite the opposite really. Hope this answers your question.

Best
 
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Maybe you can google the doctors names and read reviews on them.. I think there are websites that specialize in doctor reviews.
 
Interesting, thanks for the info guys.

Here's my situation: ive had back surgery once, which fixed the pressing issue at the time, but my lower discs are still somewhat degenerated. My back specialist basically said that while my discs aren't in great shape, they're not bad enough that he would recommend surgery.

To me, a diagnosis like that essentially points to pain meds. And I do have daily pain that the dilaudid helps with.

And its not like my doc and I just jumped on dilaudid to start - ive always had a strong tolerance to pain meds, and, at first, we tried vikes and percs, but it took 3 or 4 at a time to have any effect on me. My doc was concerned about all that APAP, so he had me try dilaudid (this is about 2 years ago, before that I had never even heard of dilaudid).

Anyway, that Did the trick, and because of my tolerance the pills never really got me all that high. But they have helped take the edge off the pain, which is ongoing.

I wouldn't worry about random pill counts, because ive been perscribed the same amount every month (180) for 2 years and never ran out. What is the pill counting supposed to be for?

And I don't use any other drugs at all, so they can test the he'll out of me!

I just know that there are plenty of docs out there who are strongly anti-narcotic, so I'd worry that I'd get a pain doc that would try and get me to explore acupuncture and other non-drug related therapies. Again, I have no idea what these guys are supposed to do.

All I know is that I'd be very unhappy without the dillies. I mean its a weird situation, because I know I abuse them since I IV and get withdrawals If i don't dose, etc etc, but at the same time they do fix the pain! And nothing else so far has been able to do that.

I mean what sort of stance would a doc like this take? Ok fine opiates can be evil, sure, but ive used my pain meds responsibly, never go over my limit, don't use other drugs, etc. If i get someone who wants me to quit dilaudid, what am I expected to do about the pain?

Or are these docs simply trying to make sure then people getting the meds truly need them and aren't abusing them? Becsuse I have a stack of MRIs and doctor reports - not to mention my past surgery - if anyone wants proof that I deal with genuine pain!

At the same time, just to play it safe, I'm going to start tapering. I have 60 or 70 pills left, which should be enough to do a slow taper, just in case i get cut off.

Or am I being paranoid? Would any pain doc just cut someone off who's been on dilaudid for 2 years straight? That seems like it would make anyone far worse for wear.

If anyone reading this is in the Los Angeles area and can recommend a good pain mgt doc, let me know.

I'll see if any of the names on my list turn up in searches.
 
Heya.USA..You guys get lotsa good drugs over there. A friend of mine here in New Zealand also deals with chronic back pain. He was scripted 120mg of morphine a day for just over a year. Until one day the doc called him in..Our medical counsel often audits doctors who prescribe alot of narcs. I wonder if your doctor hasn't had the squeeze put on him by some higher governing body too..Wish you the best of luck re. your pain management
 

I wouldn't worry about random pill counts, because ive been perscribed the same amount every month (180) for 2 years and never ran out. What is the pill counting supposed to be for?

just know that there are plenty of docs out there who are strongly anti-narcotic, so I'd worry that I'd get a pain doc that would try and get me to explore acupuncture and other non-drug related therapies. Again, I have no idea what these guys are supposed to do.

All I know is that I'd be very unhappy without the dillies. I mean its a weird situation, because I know I abuse them since I IV and get withdrawals If i don't dose, etc etc, but at the same time they do fix the pain! And nothing else so far has been able to do that.

I mean what sort of stance would a doc like this take? Ok fine opiates can be evil, sure, but ive used my pain meds responsibly, never go over my limit, don't use other drugs, etc. If i get someone who wants me to quit dilaudid, what am I expected to do about the pain?

Or are these docs simply trying to make sure then people getting the meds truly need them and aren't abusing them? Becsuse I have a stack of MRIs and doctor reports - not to mention my past surgery - if anyone wants proof that I deal with genuine pain!

At the same time, just to play it safe, I'm going to start tapering. I have 60 or 70 pills left, which should be enough to do a slow taper, just in case i get cut off.

Or am I being paranoid? Would any pain doc just cut someone off who's been on dilaudid for 2 years straight? That seems like it would make anyone far worse for wear.
I'll see if any of the names on my list turn up in searches.



John,

IMO, you are getting all carried away for nothing. You might think I'm blowing smoke, but I have been to several pain docs., I believe what I say is accurate. I'll try to answer your concerns.

First, as to an internet search or through newspaper. Not very effective IMO. Sometimes you can find out bits and pieces, but not that much. I reason most people are like myself. If you have an "easy" doc., why in the world would you want to advertise it and maybe bring govt. scrutiny. down on 'em. I believe it's better the old fashioned way, talk in person. If you hear about the doc in the news, they were probably busted for something.

There are plenty of docs. with a anti-narcotic stance. I agree with this statement, but their not in pain mgt., IMO. These pain docs do a hell of a business. And its not because their lecturing patients about narcotics and busting their balls about taking too much. There is of course a few exceptions. I ran into a pain doc, before surgery, that specialized in giving steroid shots in the back. So he was tough to get meds from. He worked in an office in a hospital. A "good" pain doc. will be well away from the hospital. But in general a pain doc. that won't write scripts would kind of be like a surgeon that wouldn't operate. It's their specialty and that's what they do.

As for scripting hydromorphone, I don't think that will be a problem. I was on oxymorphone,, both IR and ER, a couple of times. The doc. suggested it one time and I did the other. So no, I don't think dillies will be a problem.

As for having to jump through all the hoops. I think it's being pushed on the docs by regulatory agencies. When I first started, Oxycontin had not hit the media all that much. When it did, I could "feel" things getting stricter at his office. For example, he had never did UAs before, but suddenly started. Various things, like that came on-line.

As far as pill counts, that's not that common unless you got, say, popped on a dirty UA. Then they may bring you in, and count to verify that's your not eating 'em like M&Ms.

If I were you, I would take a deep breath and try to be calm. I know you are scared of the unknown, which is normal. Really, you can walk in the docs office, not say a word, and pretty well tell if their any good.
First, its a must that they give you a pain contract. This spells out their policy towards opiates. If you don't get a contract there would be reason for concern.
And second which is the most important. How full is the waiting room and how busy are they. A good pain doc will ALWAYS be super busy. Word gets around quick among us opie lovers, so we know where to go. If the office is full, and patients are hanging around outside, smoking, you have found a good one.:)

Best to ya
 
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Cletus - yeah I also wonder why this happened! My doctor has been all too happy to script me pain meds and has never tried to talk me out of it. In fact, he's often told me not to worry, there aren't any long term downsides to opiate use, etc. It's possible he's getting squeezed from higher up (although from where would be a mystery since it's a private practice) but my guess is he's trying to lighten his patient load; sometime he's booked weeks in advance and I think he probably has too many patients, so this might simply be a way to drive some traffic out of the office.

Pchild - hey man thanks for the words of wisdom! I agree that choosing a doc with a private practice is the way to go. I already noticed that some of the docs on the list they gave me have the same address, so they are probably part of a clinic or maybe even hospital - something I think you are wise to suggest should be avoided.

I feel a little better now, thanks. You're right, it wouldn't make sense for a pain management doctor to have an issue with scripting pain meds - how else are they going to help someone manage pain??

Just wish some of these docs were closer - my GP is right around the corner, but the nearest pain doc on the list they gave me is a 15 or 20 min drive.

What happens if i visit one of these guys and for whatever reason he doesn't want to continue my dillies? Do i just say "good day to you, sir," and just try another one?

Would that look like I was "doctor shopping" and somehow hurt me? I know this is frowned upon, but what would they expect from someone in m shoes??
 
What happens if i visit one of these guys and for whatever reason he doesn't want to continue my dillies? Do i just say "good day to you, sir," and just try another one?


Absolutely, you should say later. Doctor shopping is running 2 or more concurrent scripts at a time. Example, Doctor A wrote one month supply of X drug and during the SAME period you went to doctor B, received and filled a script from him for Y drug. Could also be doubling up of the original X drug.

I truly don't think that will happen. My experience suggests, if you are satisfied with what you are on, the doc will not want to rock the boat and change. So make sure you have documentation of what you currently take. The one problem that I have ran into is dosage amt. In other words, the new doc was not comfortable with the prior per day mg. dosage. In that case, you could go to another or wait and see after a visit or two, that he/she realizes you do indeed need the old amount to be comfortable.

Hope this helps
 
I feel a little better now, thanks. You're right, it wouldn't make sense for a pain management doctor to have an issue with scripting pain meds - how else are they going to help someone manage pain??


Haha, yeah if they have a problem writing scripts, they will have a very short, unsuccessful career, as a pain mgt. doc. Those scripts are their bread and butter. And believe me, a doc. that wouldn't write, would find that little detail spreading faster than wildfire through the community. Within a very SHORT period of time, his patient load would become nonexistent !

Best
 
I see a pain management doctor myself and I’m glad I do; it’s their job to manage your pain. Non pm docs usually have no desire to write narcotic scripts. Usually when you get to the point of seeing a pm doc you pretty much exhausted all other options of dealing with your pain, IE…you for whatever reason elect not to be operated on, any kind of physical therapy didn’t work and you’re at the point of just managing the pain as a last resort.

Any pm doc worth his weight in salt knows this is the situation and is ready to prescribe whatever it is you need to make you functional with your particular pain.

With my pm doc who I’ve been seeing for 8 years so far it involved signing papers that say you’re aware you’re being put on highly addictive narcotic medication. I also sign a paper ever visit saying I won’t consume any alcohol or any illegal street drugs. I also submit to random drug testing when I have office visits.

Seeing a pain management doctor is not a free pass to get high. With my pm doc he expects me to seriously follow whatever instructions he gives me to manage my pain. For the first year I went to this doc I had to bring whatever pills I had left in a script with me every time I got my script refilled. He counted ever pill I had left in a script before I got a new one to see if I was taking more than prescribed. Obviously sometimes I did take a couple more than prescribed but I let him know about it in advance.

Most of these doctors take this shit pretty seriously these days.
 
When they send you to pain management you are more likely to get more meds. I wouldn't worry about it John! When I went to pain management basically the doors to the candy store were opened. I have real pain as well, but it's alot easier to deal with a pain mgt dr. I am thinking your dr is getting some kind of heat from above and that's why this happened. I don't think you should freak out.. Good luck!
 
pain management docs will RX narcotics, but be aware of signing contracts, and they also will approach your pain in hollistic ways also, someone i know, his primary had him on 150mg of morphine a day and 180 percodan a month, and 8mg of xanax a day, for years, until he referred him to a pain management doctor, well this guy went to him, and the doctor took him off of morphine and gave him methadone 5mg, 3x a day, and he was in PAIN, so he called this pain management doc up, and boosted him to methadone 10mg 3x a day, so he is fine, it's there job to start a patient at a low dose of a drug they feel benefitd and work there way up, theyw ont just jump the gun and give u what YOU WANT, its THERE JOB TO SEE HOW MUCH PAIN YOUR IN, so they start from scratch, AND WORK AND FIND A LEVEL SUITABLE FOR YOU THAT KEEPS YOU PAIN FREE. JUST DONT BREAK THE CONTRACT RULES, they actually check your blood level to make sure ur taking it as RX'ed, also urine tests to see if ur taking other narcotics, if u fuck up, ur gonna be tagged, and be in pain and find it hard to gain trust from another doc.
 
Will they check for track marks?

Good point about "proof" and records, I'll bring as much paperwork as i have on hand to show my history of dealing with my back... And i think I have at least one old dilaudid bottle laying around, so I can show ive been on them consistently at the same dosage for a while (but then again I'm sure they will contact my GP for info anyway).

I don't use anything else and space out my meds properly so they don't run out (who wants THAT anyway??) so I'm not worried about tests and pill counts.

Hopefully I'll be able to convince the doc that for the last two years I've been on a routine that I need and works for me and he won't want to mess with it. I mean after talking to you guys, it sounds pretty simple and reasonable - 180 dillies a month, DONE, and i have lots of paperwork and MRIs to back me up with a history of pain.

Thanks for helping me understand what the deal it here, i feel a lot better!

As long as they don't search for injection marks i should be fine. Even if they do, mine are pretty hard to see and not in the usual place (could never find veins on the inside of my arm)...
 
be prepared to stop injecting drugs too unless it's just the dilaudid, expect to possibly be discontinued dilaudid, many pain management doctors main focus is to decrease the amount of pills you take a day, but at the same token prescribe you a narcotic that is very effective and long lasting (Methadone, Fentanyl, possibly Oxycontin), if you get methadone sucks in a way as it acts as a blocker so you cannot use any other opiates, but again theyw ill be doing blood work, urinalysis, etc...im not saying you will lose your 180 dillies a month, but i will speak from my fathers personal experience. He was on 180 percodan a month, along with 30mg MSContin 5 times a day as needed, Soon as he went to pain management, they told him all that aspirin in the percodan is not good for his liver. So Now he is stuck with a starting dose of Methadone 10mg 3x a day and offering to give him an Epidural to put in a "Neurostimulation Therapy" i guess they put something inside of his back where he has a control to put shocks when needed for pain, so he is not going through with it...

All doctors are different, the only reason he is going to pain management is because his primary MD is retiring, so he got referred to obviously a gay specialist, not to mention took him off of Soma and gave him "Tiazidine" for muscle spasms. i wonder if this specialist is gonna fuck with his xanax 2mg four times a day too...

all docs are diff, good luck every1!
 
You are goddamn lucky to get what you get. So be content with that! If you were in my state you would probably get 5mg vicodins for your "inorperable" back pain. So take your fucking dilaudid and shut the fuck up. I go to a pain clinic just to get the injections in my bac k but no one will give me shit for pain.
 
He can refer you to anybody he wants ,It doesnt mean you have to go to whomever he refers. Couldnt you find another Doctor that will prescribe you the same stuff that you have been getting.Especially if you have been taking certain drugs for so long. I never went to pain Dr but dropping you cold turkey off certain drugs(Dillaudid) seems not in your best interest medically speaking...
 
It seems that alot of these Dr keep people suffering because they are scared to prescribe pain med. Thats what these pain meds are here for people in pain. I read so much how these Drs give people tylenol for serious pain conditions. Thats why more and more people self medicate ,because of Drs who have no backbone .
 
So I started calling pain docs in my area today to make a first appointment. Seems like all of them are connected with some sort of "xyz Pain Center," so finding an independent operator may be tricky.

When I make these calls, are there any questions I can ask - anything important I should find out before I even walk in?


Maybe those of you with experience finding a pain management doc can chime in with things I should look out for that might help me make a wise choice...
 
I'm not in pain managment but I know a couple of people who are. You will get the pills you need, though whether it's dilaudid is impossible to say. The only real concern is that they will put you on something equal to the ORAL strength of your dillies, but no where near as strong IV. Or which is impossible (or nearly so), like the new OP oxy's.
 
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