Opioids OG Octagonal Opana ER - MEGA THREAD - can't find YOUR thread? check here.

[MeddieFrac]

Opanas make me sick as hell, and I don't know exactly why. I usually just crush them up and then snort 'em, with the outer layer of ER and everything. Perhaps this is why? But the fucking outer layer is so damn hard to get off!

Just snorted some roxies tho, and they never make me sick unless I eat too many

 

[thuggin N buggin]

Personally I had a bad experience with opana I had been using OC recreationally here and there but still was able to take more than a beginners dosage (nasally that is). However, when I tried opana (it may have been because i was also drinking at the time) I immediately began sweating and itching like an overdose after railing barely half a 30 ER. It also had me blowing gel out of my nose for days. My suggestion is bang it for sure but start VERY small!

 

[muvolution]

Personally I had a bad experience with opana I had been using OC recreationally here and there but still was able to take more than a beginners dosage (nasally that is). However, when I tried opana (it may have been because i was also drinking at the time) I immediately began sweating and itching like an overdose after railing barely half a 30 ER. It also had me blowing gel out of my nose for days. My suggestion is bang it for sure but start VERY small!

ok dude, you blew 15mg, thats equivalent to 150mg of morphine with 50% bioavailablilty, you got 75mg of morphine equivalent instantly, so that''s much like doing an oxy 80 all at once.

 

[thefoot]

^^I've never had that problem, I do it every once in a while

 

[homeydontplaythat]

this stuff is better than heroin IMO. its just redonkulous. a 40mg pill IV is like a half g of the purest raw heroin. enough to kill you for sure. the rush is better than heroin and the legs are better than heroin.

IV is the only way to go with oxymorphone. goes for hydromorphone as well. i have never experienced such a profound rush and glow as with slamming opana.

ps, getting the pill prepped for IV solution is easy. the methods are listed all over the place. for like 35 bucks you can get the equivelant of like 4 KILLER bags of heroin. like the best D you have ever had. totally worth it.

 

[jamesBrown]

this stuff is better than heroin IMO. its just redonkulous. a 40mg pill IV is like a half g of the purest raw heroin. enough to kill you for sure. the rush is better than heroin and the legs are better than heroin.

IV is the only way to go with oxymorphone. goes for hydromorphone as well. i have never experienced such a profound rush and glow as with slamming opana.

ps, getting the pill prepped for IV solution is easy. the methods are listed all over the place. for like 35 bucks you can get the equivelant of like 4 KILLER bags of heroin. like the best D you have ever had. totally worth it.

Actually ive found(and alot of other people as wel, even here on BL) that dilaudid doesnt have legs at all.....meaning the high doesnt last for a long time at all. And for sure it doesnt last nearly as long as heroin or oxy.

The rush MIGHT be better than heroin but that simply depends n the quality of heroin your talking about.....the average grade, cut up heroin, probably doesnt have quite as good as a high as dilaudid, but the heroin I get alot of the time, especially the tar...is waaaaay better than a shot of dilaudid....FOR SURE.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

no, i was talking about OXYmorphone. i said hydromorphone and oxymorphone are only good IV.

 

[shadyMyster]

ok dude, you blew 15mg, thats equivalent to 150mg of morphine with 50% bioavailablilty, you got 75mg of morphine equivalent instantly, so that''s much like doing an oxy 80 all at once.

Incorrect. 15 mg? Equivalent to a 50% bioavailability (assuming he potentiated this affect by consuming highly lipid products) So, that would be 7.5mg, x let's say 6, or in this case, and that would be 45mg in morphine equivalent...NOT 150MG....your numbers are wayyy off. Standard clinical conversions are using a .333 conversion, or about 10mg oxymorphone is equivalent to 30mg morphine.

With these conversions, one must remember that if you are lucky, half of that OP will be converted, and about 25% of the morphine dose. So that ends up being an oral rate of 5mg op = 22.5 m, or ABOUT 4.5X (OP Oral is about 4.5x the strength of Oral morphine.)

 

[jamesBrown]

Incorrect. 15 mg? Equivalent to a 50% bioavailability (assuming he potentiated this affect by consuming highly lipid products) So, that would be 7.5mg, x let's say 6, or in this case, and that would be 45mg in morphine equivalent...NOT 150MG....your numbers are wayyy off. Standard clinical conversions are using a .333 conversion, or about 10mg oxymorphone is equivalent to 30mg morphine.

With these conversions, one must remember that if you are lucky, half of that OP will be converted, and about 25% of the morphine dose. So that ends up being an oral rate of 5mg op = 22.5 m, or ABOUT 4.5X (OP Oral is about 4.5x the strength of Oral morphine.)

Im not sure exactly where you went wrong in your math...but im almost positive that oxymorphone is WAAAY more potent than you are giving it credit for. 15 mg's of oxymorphone is equivelant to alot more than just 45 mg's of morphine....i can guarantee you that.

Hopefully somebody with more experience can help me explain this better but im not the expert as I preffered heroin over pills for the most part, or atleast it was available alot more.

 

[muvolution]

No dude, I'm right.
He insuffulated the 15mg of Oxymorphone.
Oxymorphone is 10 times stronger than morphine. Nasally it has a 43% bioavalability, higher if you consume a fatty meal or suspend it in water. So let me lay out the math for you.

15x10= 150 x .43 = 64.5 equivalent analgesic dose of Morphine.
I rounded up assuming he had consumed alcohol or a fatty meal in which case the bio - availability multiplier would be closer to .50, giving me the 75mg number I came up with.

Your numbers are correct, though, for oral doses of oxymorphone.

 

[jamesBrown]

No dude, I'm right.
He insuffulated the 15mg of Oxymorphone.
Oxymorphone is 10 times stronger than morphine. Nasally it has a 43% bioavalability, higher if you consume a fatty meal or suspend it in water. So let me lay out the math for you.

15x10= 150 x .43 = 64.5 equivalent analgesic dose of Morphine.
I rounded up assuming he had consumed alcohol or a fatty meal in which case the bio - availability multiplier would be closer to .50, giving me the 75mg number I came up with.

Your numbers are correct, though, for oral doses of oxymorphone.

^^^I agree with this guy...allthogh I took too much temazepam to do the math right now to back it up.

 

[shadyMyster]

Not at all. Your numbers are still incorrect. The only way possible is if he IV'ed 15mg of Oxymorphone, does it become 10x as potent...And you said he "blew" which I assume means rail, snort insufflate. Even if he were to slam it, because it's in pill form, there will be lost OP due to filtering and byproduct fillers that interfere...so.... to break it down... you are still wrong.

Look again, plus you want to do the percentage first. That 15mg only 6.45mg will be bioavailable. Then, 6.5 multiplied by let's say 6 to be fair for your case, is still only 39mg. So your case is even less now that you have said 43% bioavailable, which I surmised it to be 50% with lipid intake.

 

[shadyMyster]

Morphine
IM/IV/SC=10 mg
PO=30–60 mg#

Oxymorphone
IM/IV/SC=1 mg
PO=10 mg

The only 10-1 ratio is for IV/IM use only, NOT oral or insufflation. Where are you getting 10x potency for snorting....?

 

[muvolution]

Morphine
IM/IV/SC=10 mg
PO=30–60 mg#

Oxymorphone
IM/IV/SC=1 mg
PO=10 mg

The only 10-1 ratio is for IV/IM use only, NOT oral or insufflation. Where are you getting 10x potency for snorting....?

ah I see where we are going wrong, you are getting this off analgesic conversion tables.
The molecule itself, once into your bloodstream is 10x the potency of a molecule of morphine in analgesic efficacy. Thus, (because of about 50% BA) he got about 7.5mg into his bloodstream, would equal 75mg of morphine in analgesic efficacy (which doesn't necessarily, but mostly, translates into euphoria).
agree?

 

[muvolution]

the 10x potency is just how much stronger it is than morphine.
hydromorphone is like 8x stronger, oxymorphone is like 10x stronger, above that, there's only fentanyl, buprenephrine, and the Bentley compounds.

 

[shadyMyster]

No, I still do not agree. Where are you getting 10x potency????? What source is your claim from? There is no we in going wrong, it is not me. My numbers are accurate. And when you say, it mostly translates into Euphoria? I disagree, proportionately I believe oxycodone is much more euphoric at equivalent doses. Oxymorphone is both sedative and euphoric at the same instance, much more euphoric per say than morphine, but less than oxycontin. I'm defining euphoric as a heady, up, speedy high, that put's a smile on your face and gets endorphins flowing. You say "the 10x potency is just how much stronger than it is than morphine" this makes no sense at all, FOR THE LAST TIME, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS NUMBER, 10X STRONGER THAN MORPHINE. Only in IV/IM is it 10-1 ratio, as I previously have stated. It is more around 4.5-6x the potency of Morphine for insufflation.

 

[shadyMyster]

Plus, your theory of analgesic efficacy does not comply with your previous statement, "ah..you are getting them from conversion tables." Then you state that once it's in your blood stream, it equates to 10-1 ratio for ANALGESIC EFFICACY." Which is a complete contradiction on your part. I think you have no clue what you're talking about "dude".

You have no data to back up your statements and claims, which are not correct. The ONLY, and I repeat, ONLY method for which Oxymorphone equates to 10x potency when compared to Morphine, is if they are BOTH INTRAVENOUSLY INJECTED or INTRAMUSCULARLY. When taken Per OS, or orally, or even insufflation, Oxymorphone is about 3-6x more potent, depending on your source and method. Oral = about ( 4.5 if you account for 50% bioavail increase with lipid intake). So, that 7.5mg of Oxymorphone injested does NOT equate to "150 mg morphine, with 75 mg morphine equivalent instantaneously. It equates to about 45mg of morphine, with 50% bioavailable.

 

[muvolution]

The molecule has a 10x stronger affinity for your mu receptors. whether ingested, snorted, or banged. you are mixing up your Bio-availability with the potency all around the place.

it has a 10 times stronger affinity for opiate receptors. the Bio-availability is 50% when insuffulated. He did 15mg.

this is like a childrens kindergarten math problem.
Can you solve it?

15/2 = 7.5 x 10 = 75 mg of morphine equivalent.

As far as oxycodone being "better" 10% is metabolized into oxymorphone which has a ~ 10x stronger binding affinity, then the rest becomes noroxycodone and other less active metabolites. I'll take the equivalent of 10mg of Opana in Morphine any day, because that would be 100mg of Morphine.

here, i'll source it for you:
from wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymorphone

Endo withdrew the original Numorphan tablets from the market in 1972 as the result of regulatory and market pressures and other considerations as it was passionately sought, by any means necessary, by some narcotics addicts. Until its removal from the United States market at that point, oxymorphone in the form of Numorphan 10 mg instant-release tablets was one of the most sought-after and well-regarded opioids of the IV drug using community. Because of its low bioavailability, 10% when taken orally, a 10 mg tablet represents 10 times the average IV dose in a single tablet. Known popularly as "blues" or "Nu- Blues" for their light blue color, the tablets contained very few insoluble binders—making them easy to inject—and were extremely potent when used intravenously. "Blues" were also considered to be especially euphoric; comparable to or better than heroin.

 

[shadyMyster]

You still have not shown your source. Wikipedia? Ha... Wow, I could only have guessed. First of all, the only thing that remotely represents what you are claiming, is this line from your quote source.

" Because of its low bioavailability, 10% when taken orally, a 10 mg tablet represents 10 times the average IV dose in a single tablet. Known popularly as "blues" or "Nu- Blues" for their light blue color, the tablets contained very few insoluble binders

How do I spell this out for you, step by step, since you need it. 10% is the low bio. One 10mg pill *key word* REPRESENTS /end key word* , and I repeat, represents, 10 times the average IV dose in a single tablet. THIS MEANS THAT THE AVERAGE IV is 10x less than what is needed in pill form. In other words, as I said before, ONLY IV IS IT 10X stronger, In even OTHER WORDS, that 10mg pill taken orally is equal to 1mg IV. NOT MAKING IT 10X stronger...it has absolutely nothing to do with strength in your quote, they simply are stating that one 10mg pill will only let in 1mg of oxymorphone into your bloodstream, which is the same amount needed for an IV. Once again, you have consistently been proven wrong.

In the 1970s, oxymorphone was highly sought after by the IV community. The quote is saying, that in the 1970s, this 10mg instant release pill of oxymorphone was very water soluble and highly sought after (people wanted it). People wanted it because this same 10mg instant release pill, if injected, could yield 10 different iv doses of 1mg. (1mg is the standard IV dose of Oxymorphone). People wanted it because it is so powerful when IV or IM or Subcutaneous.

Where's your 10x number? If that was it, the quote you pulled out of wikipedia that has absolutely NOTHING to do with potency, then you have lost this argument from the beginning, as I have suspected and show you through sources, and complete analysis. Like I have stated several times, OXYMORPHONE IS NOT 10X STRONGER THAN MORPHINE WHEN TAKEN BY THESE FOLLOWING ROA's but not limited to:
Insufflation
Per Os

This is the end of story. You have been proved wrong, time and time again. Ask a scientist, do a Gastro, do something. Just don't spread inaccurate, misinformed information here. It's fine if you did not know at first, but time and time again you still show disregard to blatant facts, and clearly misunderstand the information you regard as your source. For the last time, oxymorphone is 3-6 times stronger than morphine. 3x-4.5x when taken orally, about 4.5-6x when insufflated.

 

[muvolution]

you are an idiot.

if IV 1mg OM = 10 mg Morphine (same ROA, same bioavailability) then OM is 10x stronger than Morphine.
The MOLECULE has a 10x higher affinity (big word, might want to look it up) for your opiate receptors. The molecule's affinity for receptors has nothing to do with the route of administration.
Seeing as how the route of administration was insuffulation, that gives a ~50%BA. 10mg of a drug with a 50% bio-availability will yield 5mg getting into your system. Once it's in your system, It's the same as if you had IV'd it - there is 5mg to work with, and since it shows a 10x stronger affinity for your mu1 and 2 receptors than morphine, the yield will be as if you had 50mg of morphine in your system.

now apply that same math to 7.5mgs. what's the answer?

WILL A MODERATOR PLEASE STEP IN AND SOLVE THIS ISSUE, BECAUSE i DON'T WANT ANYONE GETTING SICK, HURT, OR DYING BECAUSE OF INCORRECT MATH AND SOME SILLY FLAME WAR.