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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Tapering off of poppy pods

Morning Ham. I need to say that this place (BL) is starting to freak me out a bit. I am scared about seeing the doctor today and getting the taper schedule. I keep thinking all this crap I feel right now are symptoms of WD from tolerance to the morphine. Maybe part of it is but after a month wouldn't I feel like you do when you step down and get used to the lower dose?

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think it's best for me to stay away from here for a little bit till I get this shit settled with the doctor and feel better. All the posts I have been reading about tapering and and the cons of it are too much for now. It is causing me to find excuses not to taper which is not good!

So Ham, I think I will only be emailing you off list for a while. I do need your continued support and friendship. I don't get freaked out when you and I talk about feeling icky. I think we will be lifetime friends! Anyone else that wants to get hold of me can click my Yahoo IM link and find me. Good luck to all.
 
I see a lot of good support and advice, but i just thought i'd relay my experience again, because i STRONGLY feel that most people are getting caught up in the mental aspect too much, and are so afraid of coming off pods that if they sneezed while nodding on a 90g dose they'd go and drink another batch of tea just to make sure they weren't in w/d.

You can't taper until you realize that you NEED to quit and from there decided that you actually WANT to quit. If you've been using for a long time and find it extremely tough to come off, you probably aren't in a financial/life spot where you simply HAVE to quit.

I.e. If you have 6 grand in the bank and work from home, that's the reason it's so hard, not because it's going to make you physically like a train wreck.

My Tapering Experience:

Was on them for 3 months, 60g a day usually in 2 doses of tea the taper went:

Day 1: 15g of powder in chocolate milk
Day 2: 12g
Day 3: 9g
Day 4: 6g
Day 5: 3g
Day 6: Playing frisbee on the beach without a monkey on my back.

Sorry if this post makes me sound insensitive or like a dick but shit, if you spent 3 months on cloud nine, you have to accept that 1 week of feeling shitty followed by 1 week of feeling kinda "off" really isn't that bad of a deal.
 
Ham....I'm sorry, I don't have enough posts yet to PM or I would PM this to Hemp and not take up your thread, incase she isn't checking in here anymore, please pass this along to her if you talk to her.

Hemp, I understand where you are coming from completely. The fear of tapering/withdrawals builds up in your mind and in a quest to know what to expect you read everyone's comments, threads, etc. I did that when I first started thinking about tapering and posted here. And I went through a terrible time before I even began to taper, partly from the mind game of it all. In the end, I took a break for a few days, stabilized, didn't check in here as often and then when I was mentally prepared I came back and bookmarked my thread and Ham's thread and a few other success stories on here as well as other places. For awhile that is all I read and now that I am into my taper and see that really it isn't as bad as my mind built it up to be, I am venturing out again. Everyone has a different experience with getting clean, no matter if its cold turkey or tapering. Everyone reacts differently and post their feelings and experiences, which is wonderful, but if you let it the rough times or bad experiences erode away any positive ones you've read as well as combat your mental strength to do this. Don't let that happen. Do what you need to do, take a break from here or if you feel up to it just go to a couple of threads that you feel comfortable in. You will get there in your taper as well and likely it will not be nearly as bad as your mind is trying to tell you it will be. Please take care and know that we are behind you here all the way!

Ham, Glad to hear you are getting stabilized at 5g! You sound much better today, hopefully a day of somewhat normalcy will strengthen you to get through this next drop. From here on out you are taking smaller drops right? Maybe that in itself will help the withdrawals to be less. :)
 
Mlk- I'll pass the message on to her verbatim. And this is your thread as much as it is "my" thread. The more the merrier. There is strength in numbers and anyone is more than welcome to jump in here.

And yes- i'm dropping in half-gram steps now so the rest of this is gonna be tedious. If I feel fine on day-two I'll bump it up a day. We'll see. But yep- in the home stretch now. This is where patience REALLY becomes a virtue. No buzz any more. Not even a slight one. As weak as these pods are I am seriously thinking I might jump early. Who in the hell knows? I'll play it by ear. My ONLY concern is work. I've got to be "on" 100% all the time. I troubleshoot all day and deal with people in close quarters and I'm always always under pressure. As long as my hands are steady, I can stay focussed, and I'm not running to the can every 5 minutes I'm golden.

Hemp- no worries. I know exactly what you're talkinig about. A person can read themselves right into a freakin' panic attack if they aren't careful. I'm getting pretty close to taking a break from BL myself. I'm pretty much just posting the same crap over and over and unless something monumental (ha!) or unusual (nah!) occurs I'm thinking I'm just gonna lay low and just check in every few days and a follow-up after the little jump. I don't see how anyone could be faulted for stepping away from something that is not serving their needs or worse is harshing their mellow.

So yeah there ya have it. Business as usual, ready for another drop. All in all this taper has gone really smoothly but for one half-day of work missed. Were it not for a change-up in pods and mysubsequent mis-calculation of my dose this would have been as smooth as silk. Really, all things considered, this has been a walk in the park thus far. Oh sure, I've had some crappy days but hell- I even have crappy days when I'm not using, tapering, or kicking. That's life. Especially when you get a little older...

I hope everyone is hanging tight and doing well today. Keep up the good work!

Peace.
 
NomNomNom said:
I see a lot of good support and advice, but i just thought i'd relay my experience again, because i STRONGLY feel that most people are getting caught up in the mental aspect too much, and are so afraid of coming off pods that if they sneezed while nodding on a 90g dose they'd go and drink another batch of tea just to make sure they weren't in w/d.

You can't taper until you realize that you NEED to quit and from there decided that you actually WANT to quit. If you've been using for a long time and find it extremely tough to come off, you probably aren't in a financial/life spot where you simply HAVE to quit.

I.e. If you have 6 grand in the bank and work from home, that's the reason it's so hard, not because it's going to make you physically like a train wreck.

My Tapering Experience:

Was on them for 3 months, 60g a day usually in 2 doses of tea the taper went:

Day 1: 15g of powder in chocolate milk
Day 2: 12g
Day 3: 9g
Day 4: 6g
Day 5: 3g
Day 6: Playing frisbee on the beach without a monkey on my back.

Sorry if this post makes me sound insensitive or like a dick but shit, if you spent 3 months on cloud nine, you have to accept that 1 week of feeling shitty followed by 1 week of feeling kinda "off" really isn't that bad of a deal.
Click to expand...

The length of use is also a major factor. Three months of use is really not very long at all. That's not long enough to really alter your life style and social situations, so when you did quit it was not too much of a change.

When you've been using a lot longer it becomes much more ingrained in your life. Not to mention how much more it's ingrained in your body and brain the longer you use.

A few month habit to a habit that has gone on for a few years are two completely different battles. The only similarity would be the drug.
 
^I agree Carl. You're far more diplomatic that I could ever hope to be. Good to see you. I apologized to you in Bo's thread last week in case you missed it. I jumped on you undeservedly and I'm sorry.

**********

Strange day today: NO w/d symtoms at all. None. Best I've felt in a week. I have not dosed in 17 hours and I don't feel any need to whatsoever. Is this what Bo was talking about not having any more symptoms once you get down low enough? I never experienced this in any previous tapers. So strange. But I'm cool with it!

I'm going to wait and see if any symptoms show up later. I'll dose when I need to but I'm dropping down to 4.0g from 5.0.

This is strange indeed. Surreal. I woke up feeling fine. Cool!

Hope everyone is doing well today. We're getting there!

Peace.
 
I'm having lope problems. I started tapering in early June and finished at the end of July, jumping onto 12mg lope, stabilizing, and then tapering 1mg every two days. I'm down to 5mg and since I dropped below 8, I've been getting WD symptoms - chills, sweats, fever-feeling, horrible aches and pains, restless legs and more. I thought I was out of the woods and was so happy to be free, and now this. I'm considering going back up on the lope dose and stabilizing again, or just getting back on opiates. I would just suck it up, but I am a chronic pain patient, and the aches I'm getting in my back are simply unbearable.
 
I read that bs last night and thought "what an arrogant pos".

He wrote "my tapering experience" and like Carl already said, 3 months isn't long. But let me reframe that for him, **3 months is a FUCKING JOKE**

How dare you take your tiny little pea sized habit, and come into a forum with people suffering from addictions 10xs the size of yours, and write on day 6 "I was playing frisbee".

Go play with your small dick you fucking nomnom. What an arrogant, ignorant thing to say. And to top it off he puts "sorry if this post makes me sound insensitive or like a dick".

BRO, let me ASSURE YOU, you do not sound insensitive at all, you sound like a dumb naive doucebag. Coming into a thread where someone is trying to recover from a serious drug habit, and flexing your recovery muscles in front of everyone, what a sad pathetic existence to live.
Thats the same as going to a funeral and saying "not to be insensitive, but I pissed on the coffin because I really had to go". OMG I can't stand the ignorance in people.

First, get addicted to pods for a few years not 3 months.
Second, have a real fucking addiction 60gms a day is pretty weak. Theres people here who commonly used 100-150gms a day and more, and obviously your punk ass aint tapering off that habit in 5 days to play frisbee. You sound like your 16 years old and touched pods for the first time in your life, got scared after 3 months for w/e reason, then came here and told and wrote about it.

Noone gives a fuck, ok let me rephrase that even if we gave a fuck we couldn't give a fuck because that post was 100% complete fucking nonsense. Do NOT ever imply how the hell someone else should be doing their tapers. If you wanna make a statement about your own go ahead, but making it sound like we should be tapering quicker is a great way to look like the biggest douchebag on this site.

In fact, you owe everyone in this thread an apology just for writing that shit. If anything, apologize to hamclamp for dumping such toxic fucking immature waste in his thread.
 
^

Agreed. Thanks for posting that- when I read that '6 days' crap I got pissed.

I'd like to see him try that with my 5 1/2 yr habit. Trust me, it's a hell of a lot harder when you've been using daily for this long. I damn sure aint playing frisbee. Hippie dip shit.
 
at least he's trying to stay positive and offer us his experiences. the ad hominem attacks could cause him to relapse

EDIT: i'm not playing frisbee either :(
 
Yeah I read that yesterday and had to log off lest I have a freakin' thrombo. I kicked an IV H habit c/t when he was in diapers, if even that old, and like the rest of us, I'd love to be tossing a frisbee rather than crapping 14 times a day.. Oh well what are ya gonna do? Pfffffft blow it off...

Actually today I'm kind of trippin': No freaking symptoms at all. None. No chills, sweats, runs, nothing. WTF? I didn't even need to dose this morning. I did eventually dose on my way out the door to work, but only 4g. I almost felt foolish for doing so. This is really weird but hey- I'll take it!

All I can figure is that the lope 12mg 2x/day is holding me better than those weak ass pods were and now the lope is hitting harder than a couple grams of pod powder. That's all I can figure.

I'm gonna refrain from dosing tonight and just play the rest by ear. I dont' know, man, I might be done with this shit. I have never experienced this in previous tapers BUT I never had pods this lame either. Maybe that's the deal. I honestly don't know and I've kind of been blown away all day.

I feel like I'm in the post w/d phase now: extremely lethargic. My arms and legs feel like they are just lazy/heavy and depression is coming in waves. Right now feel like I would after a week off opies. Hell I don't know but it's all good.

I hope everyone is cool today. Thanks for chiming in, above, everyone. Don't take that stuff to heart. It don't mean nothin'...

Peace.
 
I just wanted to say that Carl and Bojangles put into expression what I was thinking about the above post. I am kicking a 3 month pod habit, although the pod habit followed a 6 month-1 year vicodin habit. But, regardless, I think it is highly insensitive to go into anyone's taper thread and post about how at 6 days you are playing frisbee on the beach. I mean, that is great and all, but yes completely insensitive when someone is likely kicking a habit much greater and even if not, how one person's body reacts to withdrawals is different from how the next person reacts. My advice, don't get too comfortable with your ability to kick a habit in 6 days with almost no problems, for somewhere down the line it will come back to bite you in the ass.

Anyway...

Ham, that is so bizarre I am having the same issue today. I feel nothing, no chills, no aches, not much in the way of stomach issues. I got up this morning, 14 hours or so after my last dose and did not feel the need to dose right away like most mornings. I also did dose eventually, but at 2.5g and its holding me with no problems. Now, I have a busy evening planned out so I am going to dose again to be sure I don't get hit with any problems but it is wild how this day has gone. I am so glad to hear you are doing good today, other than the depression, etc. Have you tried any l-tyrosine? I have constant depression issues, which is likely what landed me into opiates to begin with, but have been taking l-tyrosine after reading about it and I do think it is helping. I am a bit worried about PAWS, but I figured I will cross that bridge if and when I come to it. Please keep checking in to let us know how you are doing. You have been a huge inspiration to me to kick this pod habit! I am so glad I posted here and "met" you when I did!
 
man you guys have more willpower than me. i've cold turkeyed pods 3 times but always relapsed the first day i felt normal. usually cause of moneu issues or something though so i didn't want to do it.

i switched to methadone to get off pods and the difference was 100%. i felt so much better, more active, sleeping better, etc. also better highs too but that was just a given. lately though its a struggle to get methadone and my boys are always out, so today i made the appointment. this tuesday i go to drop the 360 + 400 for the script of suboxone. i dont have the willpower to taper and i have too many normal dealers to do it cold turkey, plus my job is physical and i cant do it. im currently stablizing on pods until i get to my appt. luckily i had lots left over from my long time doing them or i'd be in hell right now.

hooray to getting clean!
 
Well I fucked up, sorry guys/girls

I called in my Klonopin on Sunday night so my psych's office would get the fax by Monday morning, I didn't even run out early but they didn't get it filled until today, Thursday, and I called the psych's office EVERY day multiple times and each time they said they had faxed the rx to the pharmacy and each time the pharmacy denied getting the fax. Complete incompetence on their part considering I told them I only had two days left of klonopin on Monday and I'm not legally allowed to drive without my meds due to a seizure I had behind the wheel from xanax withdrawal in January of this year.

So I ran out of sub and klonopin at the same time and freaked out, called the only person I know who will sell me subs and he didn't have any, just black tar heroin, so out of desperation I bought a half gram. I finally got my Klonopin filled today. I've only smoked a tiny bit of the heroin and I'm not going to lie, it feels very nice.

My plan is to go through this half gram as slowly as possible and just quit with my Klonopin, Loperamide, and Tramadol.

The worst part about this was I wasn't even wd'ing that bad, just mild constant aching and anxiety that tripled when I ran out of Klonopin. Basically panic combined with a desperate desire to feel relief and a decent high led to this slip up. I take full responsibility for my decision though, I'm not blaming my circumstances for my decision at all. I've never even done heroin before so I was curious about the H (have been for years) and desperate, not the best combo for an addict like myself.

This quitting opiates thing is more challenging than I ever thought it would be, but I'm not going to give up.

That's my update, please don't lecture me on my stupid decision, I know I should have dealt with the situation in a more responsible way.
 
HamClamp said:
I'm also one of those weirdos who sleeps almost non-stop when withdrawing because of feeling so tired and worn out. When I kicked H in-patient a while back the staff kept accusing me of sneaking somethign in because of how much I slept but the daily drug-screenings proved them wrong. It's just the way I'm wired I guess. I consider it a blessing.
Click to expand...

I wish that I were you! For me, the no sleep aspect of kicking the habit is what really hurts me the most. I can suffer the withdrawal symptoms in the daytime hours, but the inability to sleep is the absolute killer for me. If I could sleep as you do I'm pretty confident in saying that I could stop the H with pretty much little trouble at all!!

Good luck to you my man, and all the best in your onward journey!!
 
HamClamp said:
Yeah I read that yesterday and had to log off lest I have a freakin' thrombo. I kicked an IV H habit c/t when he was in diapers, if even that old, and like the rest of us, I'd love to be tossing a frisbee rather than crapping 14 times a day.. Oh well what are ya gonna do? Pfffffft blow it off...

Actually today I'm kind of trippin': No freaking symptoms at all. None. No chills, sweats, runs, nothing. WTF? I didn't even need to dose this morning. I did eventually dose on my way out the door to work, but only 4g. I almost felt foolish for doing so. This is really weird but hey- I'll take it!

All I can figure is that the lope 12mg 2x/day is holding me better than those weak ass pods were and now the lope is hitting harder than a couple grams of pod powder. That's all I can figure.

I'm gonna refrain from dosing tonight and just play the rest by ear. I dont' know, man, I might be done with this shit. I have never experienced this in previous tapers BUT I never had pods this lame either. Maybe that's the deal. I honestly don't know and I've kind of been blown away all day.

I feel like I'm in the post w/d phase now: extremely lethargic. My arms and legs feel like they are just lazy/heavy and depression is coming in waves. Right now feel like I would after a week off opies. Hell I don't know but it's all good.

I hope everyone is cool today. Thanks for chiming in, above, everyone. Don't take that stuff to heart. It don't mean nothin'...

Peace.
Click to expand...

be careful with the loperamide, man. the most I was on at once was half of your current dose, and I've tapered very slowly since then. I'm completely clean at this point, but jumping off even at my now low dose of lope is proving very difficult, and for once in this whole multi-month long taper process I am experiencing significant withdrawals. it will come at some point.
 
mlk_2900 said:
Have you tried any l-tyrosine? I have constant depression issues, which is likely what landed me into opiates to begin with, but have been taking l-tyrosine after reading about it and I do think it is helping. I am a bit worried about PAWS, but I figured I will cross that bridge if and when I come to it.
Click to expand...

No I haven't tried it yet. i've got that and B6 sitting in the cupboard and I was saving it for when I jumped off. I guess I really ought to get with it and maybe it will help with the emotional stuff that's trying to drag me down.

How much are you taking and how often? Are you taking it with B6? Any info will help.

I've also got 5-HTP if anyone has any experience with that.

I'm not knockin' ya in any way MLK but this whole "PAWS" thing sort of irritates me. 20 years ago PAWS was unheard of. Don't get me wrong- depression, lethargy, craving, etc, always follows detox. All serious business. It just seems like once the treatment industry named it it got bigger and badder. I hope you get what I'm saying here. I'm in PAWS denial! Sure I'm gonna have some repercussions to deal with once I'm clean. I just don't want to name it, feed it, and clean up after it. Same thing when you raise a rabbit for food: you don't name it!

Larson0 said:
man you guys have more willpower than me. i've cold turkeyed pods 3 times but always relapsed the first day i felt normal.
<snip>
hooray to getting clean!
Click to expand...

Cold turkey or tapering its all the same: trying to get to a better place. No comparisons needed- it's ALL a bitch!

Good luck with your sub appoinment. As long as you have your goal you will get there! Keep us posted as to how things go for you. Hang in there!

unsettled said:
Well I fucked up, sorry guys/girls
<snip>

This quitting opiates thing is more challenging than I ever thought it would be, but I'm not going to give up.

That's my update, please don't lecture me on my stupid decision, I know I should have dealt with the situation in a more responsible way.
Click to expand...

Hey what's done is done. Can't turn back the clock. Just keep at it. Mark Twain (I think) said that quitting smoking was easy- he's done it a hundred times! So ya fell down. Get up and keep swingin'. You've got plenty more fight in ya so don't give up!


britfag1 said:
I wish that I were you! For me, the no sleep aspect of kicking the habit is what really hurts me the most. I can suffer the withdrawal symptoms in the daytime hours, but the inability to sleep is the absolute killer for me. If I could sleep as you do I'm pretty confident in saying that I could stop the H with pretty much little trouble at all!!

Good luck to you my man, and all the best in your onward journey!!
Click to expand...

Oh man I consider it some damn good luck. I get SO wiped out I sleep. It has always been that way. Its weird becasue I am not a "sleeper" meaning all I need is 4-5 hours and I'm fine. I'll catch a nap any chance I can too. Maybe that helps. I don't know why but I know that I am DAMN lucky.

Thanks for the well-wishes and I'm sending them right back at you.


leiphos said:
be careful with the loperamide, man. the most I was on at once was half of your current dose, and I've tapered very slowly since then. I'm completely clean at this point, but jumping off even at my now low dose of lope is proving very difficult, and for once in this whole multi-month long taper process I am experiencing significant withdrawals. it will come at some point.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm concerned about it too. I know it IS an opiate and even though it doesn't get ya high it is still the real deal. The up-shot is that lope doesn't fuck my life up, only cost $4 for 48caps, and it doesn't mess with my mental/emotional state. I'll taper it 1mg at a time. I've only been using it sporadically through this taper- only when I really need it but I'll probably be taking it from now until the end. I'll taper it slowly for sure. Thanks for the heads-up.

Thank you ALL for your suppport, ideas, and for sharing your experiences. There IS strength in numbers. We're dragging each other towards the finish line. It ain't a race and I want us ALL to "win".

Peace.
 
HamClamp said:
No I haven't tried it yet. i've got that and B6 sitting in the cupboard and I was saving it for when I jumped off. I guess I really ought to get with it and maybe it will help with the emotional stuff that's trying to drag me down.

How much are you taking and how often? Are you taking it with B6? Any info will help.

I've also got 5-HTP if anyone has any experience with that.

I'm not knockin' ya in any way MLK but this whole "PAWS" thing sort of irritates me. 20 years ago PAWS was unheard of. Don't get me wrong- depression, lethargy, craving, etc, always follows detox. All serious business. It just seems like once the treatment industry named it it got bigger and badder. I hope you get what I'm saying here. I'm in PAWS denial! Sure I'm gonna have some repercussions to deal with once I'm clean. I just don't want to name it, feed it, and clean up after it. Same thing when you raise a rabbit for food: you don't name it!
Click to expand...

I take 2 500 mg tablets in the morning with (1) B6. I think you can take more, but it tends to make me jittery if I take more than 2 pills. Its no miracle, but I can tell a difference when I forget to take it.

Oh, I get what you are saying about the PAWS thing. I take no offense to that at all and I agree with you. You name something and it can make a problem bigger than it already is. I guess I called it by its "name" because I didn't know what else to call it, but what you said the depression, lethargy, etc. afterwards I am somewhat I worried about. Mainly because of the underlying depression and anxiety I have anyway. But, oh well, I will get through whatever the after effects of kicking this habit throws at me. I am looking into addiction counseling and hopefully that will help me get through and tackle it head on.

Hope your night is going well enough!
 
If you're worried about paws there are certain places on the internet that sell "kanna", if you get a good batch of kanna paws really don't stand a chance. But I'm talking more about the anxiety/depression aspect, not insomnia (although it can be sedating its not its main property).
Theres lots of places that sell bad kanna, (like ebay) but if you get it from a supplier who tests all their batches, its a ridiculously strong but natural ssri. And its doesn't take 3-4 weeks to work either like most ssris. Its instant but you have to take it on an empty stomach. If you're considering getting kanna it would be smart to verse yourself on every aspect of it, because if you're on ssris you risk pushing yourself into serotonin syndrome. But if you're not on ssris, kanna is really the strongest legal herb I can think of that will actually have major positive effects on your mood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sceletium_tortuosum
 
Ah yeah I remember Kanna! I used to mix some with our weed and it had very noticable SRI properties. I compared it favorably to tramadol in it's quick mood lifting properties.
 
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