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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Nf2 / nf3

well, if my job was to make some designer drugs, the first thing i would think about would be prodrugs of the drug or substances that would split into the drug and something completely untoxic. That way the people would get what they usually want. however, i doubt this would solve the problem "i want to get drug x but legal" as laws can be adapted and following vecktors post it isn't so easy in praxis as it sounds in theory (as usual ;))

Now lets assume we don't get experience reports, because nobody wants t play rat (i hope so), what steps / tests would you require to say "yes its still a risk, but we know enough that someone could try it"

(if it has been discussed before, please give me the link)
 
vecktor said:
there are a lot of good reasons why recreational prodrugs are very rare.

The parent drug is usually illegal and most syntheses of prodrugs require the parent drug, the conversion to the prodrug has to either be complete or the purification leave no detectable parent compound, besides if the illegal drug is required to make the prodrug why would a clandestine operator bother making the prodrug, a classic example is ALD-52, it is theoretically possible to make without LSD, but in reality it is not.

The prodrug has to metabolize effectively to the parent drug in vivo but not decompose to any detectable amount of the parent drug on storage, a very difficult set of requirements. most pharma prodrugs decompose slowly on storage, and with modern analytical equipment it only takes less than 1 in a milion molecules to change before there will be detectable amounts of the illegal parent.

There are often unusual bioavailability and person to person variability issues with prodrugs These are solvable but often need considerable resources., in pharma drug development, it is usual for prodrugs to be considered as a last worst option when everything has failed, it is a far better strategy to go back and modify the lead compound to get round the problems. As Random Crap drugs have next to no research done on them prior to them being thrown at unsuspecting consumers these problems are likely to be impossible to overcome, it requires resources and intelligence to prodrug a target compound because of the added complexity, something the Random Crap suppliers do not have.

I'm sure there are more reasons
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4-AcO-DMT comes to my mind...
 
You can do it with N-formyl amphetamine (which in synthesis via one route is the chemical produced that needs to be hydrolysed to amphetamine), but who wants a load of formic acid being cleaved off in vivo? Def not your optic nerve (how drinking methanol blinds you). The formic acid from 5mg of amphetamine (or N-formylmethamphetamine) isn't going to produce a worrysome amount, but who sticks with clinical doses when drug insanity kicks in?
 
Enough for the powers that be to scream off with his head and you're hauled away on the ignorance is no defence premis
if you claim there was none in when you bought it . Anyway it's a moot point ( where does that bloody silly phrase come from?) in the above as 4-AcODMT is also a Class A Sch 1 drug in the UK (but I know vecktor knows that, just thought I'd point it out to those a tad confused! =D)
Bastards
 
its truly a research chemical since it needs to be researched before anyone can even think about ingesting these substances...

i strongly advise you not to buy this stuff
 
Vendor was emailed over weekend to clarify structure - and has yet to respond.
 
cancerous said:
information suggests the dosage to be 50-100mg for nf3 and 100mg for nf2.
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Yes, the vendor suggests this him or herself. But one can only wonder what in the world they are thinking selling this. Tried it themselves and arrived at this dosage? Hearsay?

Worrisome indeed when the possibly cleaved moieties seem to be toxic and their dosage information combined with the fact that not-cleaving would give too much steric hindrance would suggest that cleavage (mmmm cleavage) does indeed take place.

I find that 4-AcO-DMT is a compound that seems to pass the prerequisites for a good prodrug, perhaps not in legal terms but in terms of it not seeming to produce toxic effects (a couple mg of acetaldehyde or acetate --> H2O and CO2 should be acceptable) and I definitely find the pharmacokinetics to make a big difference in the dilation of effect.
DMT and mushrooms are quite alike in ways, the dilation or duration are very important in the differing experiences is what I find.

I have always wondered about 4-Pro-DMT, dammit if only anhydrides were easier to find.
 
Solipsis said:
I have always wondered about 4-Pro-DMT, dammit if only anhydrides were easier to find.
Click to expand...
1. What is the "Pro"-prefix supposed to mean?

2. Anhydrides hydrolyze easily in water. There are not suitable as prodrugs.


- Murphy
 
Thats correct, it should be relatively easy to do right? I mean okay perhaps you will have to do a dry reaction but other than that I don't see how its any different from when I made aspirin but perhaps I am oversimplifying things ; )

I have been out of the lab for a while...

OK sorry no synthesis discussion so lets say this ends here - we were talking prodrugs though (no pun intended regarding my proposed compound) and they - logically - tend to be at least secondary amines or esters or ethers considering C-C bonds arent cleaved just like that.
 
You're forgetting the catalysts that I would rather not have to purify out of anhydride, it's not that simple bro. :)
 
TheAzo said:
Vendor was emailed over weekend to clarify structure - and has yet to respond.
Click to expand...

He responded. The images on the site still don't match the names, but they're slightly less mismatched now; now it's just a question about whether there's an N-methyl....
 
there are two experience reports in german. doses from 25 mg to 150+80mg. some soft effects seem to be present according to the report but very weak.
 
If the intended active ingredient is supposed to be created in the body after metabolism surely the dosage required (lets just assume its MDMA that is meant to be made from nf2) would need to be higher than that, depending on how much is actually converted. It's a silly risk even taking it at all so can't really recommend upping the dose but still...
 
Again cant add much to this thread apart from comparing with prohormones.

Prohormones convert at varying rates depending on the enzymatic process involved, but some are as low as 5%! With 15-20% thought of as a good conversion rate.

I have no idea how someone would go about testing the conversion rate of Nf2/Nf3 but if at is as low as some of the pro-hormones you could end up needing to take multi gram dosage!!!

No thank you.
 
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