The Cheatin' SEC (and USC)

[smotpoker]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-100720-four-corners,0,4072649.column



Interesting read.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

LSU is by far the dirtiest school I know of. They pretty much just offer money up to South Florida athletes right out in the open. Mark my words, they will come up now that the NCAA is finally doing something about this.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Necessary for a new thread, as opposed to the existing 'conferences' thread?



It may be worth (at least from an entertainment perspective, and ease of effort for tracking) to watch the updates to the Fulmer Cup, the latest update (after ND got 8 arrests for drinking 8) ):

link for the reasoning behind the JUL 19 standings

But that's more of a 'weekly' updated count of who is misbehaving in this off season, not a long term view of a program's historical ill-doings. I'm not digging up data on that now, but going from the gut, I would strongly lean towards the SEC being the most corrupt - both historically and 'in recent times'. Maybe that's because I'm saturated with the news of that conference, and miss some of the juicier mistakes by other programs....and probably a reason I throw stones at the likes of tOSU or USCw when I get a chance, as it gives me a break from my home conference misery, and lets me pretend we aren't so bad. But the reality is, we are that bad. FSU and MIA can try to up the ante for the ACC, but ultimately two schools can't bring a conference fully into the conversation - not on a level with the corruption of the SEC.

There's a bit of (funny ha-aha and funny odd) merit to this proposed modification to the Fulmer Cup (at least, a special award beyond the cup) to give a nod to the plethora of absurd charges that help the south get so many headlines (charged with "coming out of an alley"? "passing out drunk on a toilet"?).

Still, the big picture ought rely most on convictions, IMO. Less on who many charged...okay in part on the number of charges, since we know some schools (or at least players) get out of of things mere mortals would remain arrested for....but the convictions, that's a big part of where things are proven to be amok. If you want to count up charges, or convictions, or simply rely on NCAA sanctions as your guide - I doubt any of us will really have much argument that the SEC is *not* the king.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

LOL....I love the EDSBS updates for the Fulmer Cup....look at JUL 12th

UNC linebacker Quan Sturdivant understands our pain, though. Sturdivant was arrested on Saturday for marijuana possession, and likely fell into a bold new plan to nab weed smokers in the act concocted by the Albemarle police department: waiting at places that are irresistible to high people, and then searching them based on reasonable suspicion. (You're at Bojangles/Taco Bell/Checkers= you're probably baked to the gills.)

It's just not fair, but please note both the time and the location:

Sturdivant had less than half an ounce in his possession when he was pulled over at Bojangles’ at 11:15 a.m., reports state.

Wake and bake interruptus, Albemarle PD? We're sorry, we thought this was America, where you can wake up, get high, and then make a leisurely cruise to the fried chicken depot of your choice without harassment. You know how Rick James died? Voluntarily, and all because of bastards like you. In other news, if UNC's defense is getting high and eating junk food en masse to start their days, get the hell out of their way, because if the 2006 Florida defense is any indication, the ACC is about to get ripped in half by a weed-smoking cyborg Kodiak Bear named Destiny Killballs.

Three points for UNC with two points for the weed, and one for being arrested at a Bojangles before noon. If that doesn't make innate sense to you, you are probably going to be arrested at a Bojangles high sometime in the next year.

EDIT - sorry for derailing with more F'Cup and EDSBS links-n-quotes

And final edit - more full listing of F'Cup (all teams in each year's competition). Note, there is usually enough SEC teams in any given year to own the "Cheatin'" crown outright.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

Bu FSU and MIA can try to up the ante for the ACC, but ultimately two schools can't bring a conference fully into the conversation - not on a level with the corruption of the SEC.

How many times have we been through this? Miami now runs one of the cleanest programs in the entire country. Lets see you try to find that list of Miami arrests that doesn't exist again. And I'll be damned if any Miami players are implicated in this agent thing. It is possible, considering how good these agents are at convincing players to take their dirty money, but Randy Shannon is better at preparing his athletes for this than any other coach in the nation (having been there and done that). I think he may be the only coach at a major program who saw this coming. Also, don't forget that former Miami Athletic Director Paul Dee is one of the top dogs heading these investigations for the NCAA. He has a chip on his shoulder from running a clean program while so many around him were breaking all the rules.

The SEC is going to be hit hard at the end of this, especially LSU even though their name hasn't come up yet. Les Miles runs a corrupt program and is too stupid to do it properly. Meyer's strategy is pure genius, every time he is about to get caught he self-reports and pretends like he just made a mistake. "Whoops, was I not supposed to contact a recruit during the dead period?" My bad, I'll just let you know about it. Secondary violations have piled up during his tenure. Not to mention the arrests http://i.bluelight.ru/s/tongue.gif

I don't know about Saban. Alabama, like Miami, has been in hot water for this before. It is very tough to get away with these things when your school has already been implicated before. It would be an lol moment if Saban gets them in trouble again. Very possible, I don't think even Alabama fans will disagree that the guy is a bit of a scumbag.

 

[Pander Bear]

saban? A bit of an asshole maybe, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a scumbag.

Also, I'm glad you've finally found a reason your team sucks compared to mine-- its because mine cheats and yours doesn't. 8(

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

saban? A bit of an asshole maybe, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a scumbag.

Also, I'm glad you've finally found a reason your team sucks compared to mine-- its because mine cheats and yours doesn't. 8(

lol. Getting awfully defensive aren't we?

I just happen to know a little bit more due to knowing a couple of people who are very in the know. I've known about these things for years now. It amazes me that the NCAA has taken this long to finally do something about this, considering how out in the open it has been for years.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

How many times have we been through this? Miami now runs one of the cleanest programs in the entire country. Lets see you try to find that list of Miami arrests that doesn't exist again. And I'll be damned if any Miami players are implicated in this agent thing.

:blink:

:blink::blink:

lol. Getting awfully defensive aren't we?

8)




You want to talk 'recent history' or overall program/conference issues? Recent history, yes, MIA has been clean (or at least, out of the headlines....though, that tends to happen when your program becomes irrelevant ). Historically, though, you'd have to admit the Thug-U was earned (if you can concede 'at that time'....I'll concede 'not now').

But as I said above - both 'recent history' and 'over time', I agree the SEC would be the 'worst offender' regardless of how you wish to score things.

I just happen to know a little bit more due to knowing a couple of people who are very in the know. I've known about these things for years now. It amazes me that the NCAA has taken this long to finally do something about this, considering how out in the open it has been for years.

So....you were at that party as well? ... latest I heard is there may be up to 40 players from various schools that are bringing the NCAA hounds out Imagine....it happened in ... Miami?

 

[smotpoker]

Necessary for a new thread, as opposed to the existing 'conferences' thread?


child please i'll be startin my thread don't need your approval sorry

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

:blink:

:blink::blink:

8)




You want to talk 'recent history' or overall program/conference issues? Recent history, yes, MIA has been clean (or at least, out of the headlines....though, that tends to happen when your program becomes irrelevant ). Historically, though, you'd have to admit the Thug-U was earned (if you can concede 'at that time'....I'll concede 'not now').

But as I said above - both 'recent history' and 'over time', I agree the SEC would be the 'worst offender' regardless of how you wish to score things.



So....you were at that party as well? ... latest I heard is there may be up to 40 players from various schools that are bringing the NCAA hounds out Imagine....it happened in ... Miami?

Calling you defensive because you attempted to resort to insults while trying to defend your position. No I was not at the party, and there is no guarantee that no Miami players were involved (Allen Bailey, Brandon Harris, and Leonard Hankerson could all be first rounders this year), but I would highly doubt it.

Miami was once Thug U and they were great days, it was a time when it was good to be bad. It's not quite the same anymore. And was Miami "relevant" for the brawl that ate up headlines? Do you think that players who get arrested at "irrelevant" programs don't show up in the headlines?

I love that people have the philosophy that once a program goes through a few down years, they are never coming back. The only programs I can think of that will have serious trouble coming back are Nebraska, due to a poor recruiting area, and Notre Dame, due to lack of local talent to recruit and ridiculously high academic standards. Even these guys coming back is not impossible.

What team do you root for again, by the way? I forgot if it was Florida or Georgia. Cause Miami could beat both this year. Sorry dude, college football goes in cycles. Most fans seem be infants lacking object permanence.

 

[axl blaze]

oh TLB you and your Fulmer Cup. I will say, it is one of the more hilarious practices of college football on the internet.

I don't see why this is big news. there is so much money involved with the college football machine, and most of the money is misused in obvious ways. recruiters will do just about anything to get their hands on a coveted player, and I'm talking about things that would make Jesus Shuttlesworth in He Got Game blush, yo.

things have gotten so bad that I truly and simply just ignore the ever increasing reports of mishaps with colleges, their athletes, and the banality of the rules structured by the NCAA (which I won't even get into). ok, I will quickly get into this: the NCAA essentially is set up to make big programs fall.

I'm sure if the commissioner studied any NCAA football team in the Top 25 he could find enough reasons and charges to instigate the highly-dread Death Penalty.

and I know we love to make fun of the South, smotpoker, but come on. although Tressel is a god damned Choir Boy, even his slate ain't tabula rasa

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Calling you defensive because you attempted to resort to insults while trying to defend your position.

Which 'you' is being referenced when? Your losing me here, buh-dee....

That said, perhaps you (3,4-d) suffer the same problem I have behind certain firewalls and don't see smilies? Yeah the and that are in place to let you know when I'm pulling your chain and joking with you? Yes, I threw some barbs at you since you lit up like a pinball machine when I poked Miami's reputation, but the intent I was trying to convey is that a) I agree the SEC cheats the most and b ) some schools have had periods where they would have been in trouble (Miami was an easy target but others could have been picked - and honestly, it wasn't put out there first as a go at you....other than Ohio State fans, I can't remember who anyone in here roots for).

chillax.....I'm not on your nut or picking any fights here, I swear. You'll see me taking off my Orange'n'Blue glasses and blasting my own team and conference as much as I do anyone else's.

Miami was once Thug U and they were great days, it was a time when it was good to be bad. It's not quite the same anymore. And was Miami "relevant" for the brawl that ate up headlines? Do you think that players who get arrested at "irrelevant" programs don't show up in the headlines?

I love that people have the philosophy that once a program goes through a few down years, they are never coming back. The only programs I can think of that will have serious trouble coming back are Nebraska, due to a poor recruiting area, and Notre Dame, due to lack of local talent to recruit and ridiculously high academic standards. Even these guys coming back is not impossible.

Relevant.....let's see, espn only goes back to 2002 for rankings, but here's MIA in that time frame (and FL, just so you can put it back on me):
2002: 2nd (NR)
2003: 5th (24th)
2004:NR (NR)
2005: 17th (12th)
2006: NR (1st *Urban Meyer becomes head coach)
2007: NR *Randy Shannon becomes head coach (13)
2008: NR (1st)
2009: 19th (3rd)
....total NC's 5 (3)

So, in 'recent times' MIA hasn't made much noise since '02-'03....no headlines good or bad, really. Ergo, my comment of 'irrelevant', but what you may have missed was 'irrelevant in recent times'. I've tried to show I acknowledge MIA has been very relevant in 'overall history'. Hell, I grew up in Florida, I experienced it first hand. Which is why I'll throw my own team under the bus with this:

I grew up in the 70's when FLA was truly irrelevant. No way to even consider arguing it. I was there in the 80's when we made a little bit of noise, but on the national scene we remained irrelevant....and yet still cheated enough to get sanctions and ineligible for our first conference title, all the while watching MIA in their hey-day getting all the lights and fame (yes, there is a bitter taste of jealousy in my tone). When Spurrier arrived in the 90's we became somewhat relevant for on-field performance, but we never got far from that spotlight of scrutiny for voilations - never to the point of sanctions, but enough to where every year we spent the off season wondering who would get thrown off the team. I'll also grant we've been pretty freakin 'irrelevant' from '96 thru about '05-06 Truth hurts.

Now, Urban Meyer is here, and we still get that spotlight of scrutiny for who is screwing up....but we're not alone - it's an evolution of media and NCAA football, all the winning schools get such headlines now....unless they are either irrelevant or have incredibly angelic (not likely, especially if they have any talent) or incredibly good at hiding it (which, given the media drive for dirt...I don't think anyone can hide it).

Meyer, like Shannon, is trying to build a program the right way, to keep players out of trouble. The problem is, we're in the discussion these days of who has talent, who is doing well....MIA is not, yet. I never said that MIA is "never coming back"...I never indicated that about any program, so I'm struggling to see where you read that. I agree with cycles, and am waiting to see when our decline begins. Given MIA moved from NR-NR-19 in the last 3 yrs, maybe they are coming back...and keeping it clean....I didn't say they weren't. I indicated they aren't back yet.

My point of "irrelevant" extends to Slippery Rock, to Syracuse, to UNLV....to all those programs that aren't in the spotlight of scrutiny these days. Do you hear about the IN-LAF players who got busted for drinking? Probably not. Nobody cares. Do you hear about Vandy or UConn players caught in the local casinos and escorted out? Probably not. Nobody cares. Do you hear about UGA, FL, USCw, ALA and other players getting in bar fights and general law-breaking? Yes. Because they are on the national radar, people want to see them taken down a peg - so the media starved for any news in the off season are completely going nuts on these little tidbits (proven or just rumoured) to keep people reading. Is anyone hearing about MIA, FSU, WVU, or RUT players in trouble? No. Why? These programs were once top contenders....they aren't now. Could they be again? Yes, those cycles you referred to, but not right now. Could the programs be that clean such that nobody is screwing up? It's possible, but tell me, knowing college kids....do you really think it is likely? Or is it that nobody cares?

Ok, I said I'm not picking a fight, and I know my words here are directly contradicting that - this isn't a MIA slamfest on my part, it's about NCAA football overall; hence my reluctance to talk at length about my own school, but I did it anyways to show you I'm not (just) a MIA hater. I'm an equal opportunity hater - you just seem to be taking it a lot more personal in this thread

What team do you root for again, by the way? I forgot if it was Florida or Georgia. Cause Miami could beat both this year. Sorry dude, college football goes in cycles.

Sorry, I am extremely skeptical about MIA > UF this year....I can't speak to UGA because I don't know how good they'll be. And while a UF - MIA discussion can totally sink this thread, I'll drop it for now and leave you with this - any bet you want to make, I'll make it with you, that UF ends the season with a higher ranking that MIA. Simple, no confusion on criteria for 'better'....and since we can't play face-to-face (unless there is a bowl game!), I'll offer you this. Or, you can propose whatever other means you wish to put something behind your claim that MIA > UF, UGA. Heck, I bet Pander will take up the UGA side of such a bet against MIA as well.

Most fans seem be infants lacking object permanence.

Sorry, brah...you are really losing me there, unless you are trying to bring it back to 'program history' as the basis for discussion. And since I'm primarily speaking about 'recent history' our mis-communication is pretty understandable.

 

[axl blaze]

I could see UGA, FL, and UM coming out in a wash, as to who's better.

I agree that Miami has been irrelevant since that dreaded Fiesta Bowl, but they most certainly have the talent on paper this year. however, teams like UGA and FL will always have the athletes and you can't deny the coaching savvy of Meyer or Richt.

I said Miami should be the best, but if they weren't than I wouldn't be surprised

 

[TheLoveBandit]

things have gotten so bad that I truly and simply just ignore the ever increasing reports of mishaps with colleges, their athletes, and the banality of the rules structured by the NCAA (which I won't even get into). ok, I will quickly get into this: the NCAA essentially is set up to make big programs fall.

I'm sure if the commissioner studied any NCAA football team in the Top 25 he could find enough reasons and charges to instigate the highly-dread Death Penalty.

I think this is very true, and thanks for bringing us back on topic. I would imagine with ~80 players on a team, there is a very, very high likelihood that there are violations committed at every school - even D2 or D3. So yeah, if the commissioner wanted, he could bring any program down with a steady, penetrating gaze.

Some might say the NCAA isn't willing to look that hard because it doesn't want to kill it's golden goose, but when you have idiot kids drinking and being stupid with arrests combined with media frenzy over each change in the breeze...NCAA has to at least appear to make an effort at policing it's programs. The players are kind of forcing their hand that way

I also think it utterly sucks how those who offend are typically not the ones punished - with the recent example being USCw and how Bush and Carrol are off scott free, while the school (and following coaches* and players suffer the sanctions). *Though, my SEC bias against Lane Kiffen makes me giggle a bit over any sanctions he gets handed. Still, you've got so many kids at a program like USCw that are doing it right, and are compliant with NCAA rules....and they are told they can't be in the BCS or any kind of bowl at all I appreciate the NCAA letting the kids transfer; and there is some inevitable justice with the change happening at the school (AD replaced, coach is gone, offending player is gone). But I really wish there was a way to give more bite for the NCAA against those who actually broke the rules - such as suing them for the money the school now has to forfeit, or serve some prison time just as they would for breaking any laws. But I suppose that's the difference, these aren't laws, these are 'club rules' and the worst they can do is kick you out of the club....ooops! Too late.

 

[axl blaze]

yeah, even with my years in the small school football scene their were violations everywhere. steroids, drugs, extra practices. there was a good reason that I was never drug-tested in the entirety of my short-lived college football career

I'm glad to see sympathy for the players, instead of sympathy for the devils. most of the big time players in D1 schools don't even know when they are breaking the high and holy rules of the NCAA. and most schools don't care to teach them, as long as they appear clean during their stay. after the players are used for their talents and enter the NFL - I'm sure the schools could almost care less, and would love to put the blame on the players to make sure they are all good

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

Which 'you' is being referenced when? Your losing me here, buh-dee....

That said, perhaps you (3,4-d) suffer the same problem I have behind certain firewalls and don't see smilies? Yeah the and that are in place to let you know when I'm pulling your chain and joking with you? Yes, I threw some barbs at you since you lit up like a pinball machine when I poked Miami's reputation, but the intent I was trying to convey is that a) I agree the SEC cheats the most and b ) some schools have had periods where they would have been in trouble (Miami was an easy target but others could have been picked - and honestly, it wasn't put out there first as a go at you....other than Ohio State fans, I can't remember who anyone in here roots for).


chillax.....I'm not on your nut or picking any fights here, I swear. You'll see me taking off my Orange'n'Blue glasses and blasting my own team and conference as much as I do anyone else's.

Sorry. "Antagonize" would have been a much better word than "insult", since there was no insult involved. But there is nothing personal taken here. It's a sports discussion, and we are both trying to yank each others chain a little bit. Just saying you got me a little off topic. On purpose. (I'm joking with that last one, since you have smiley problems).

I can just see that my previous post made it look like I take things a little too seriously, which was not my intent. I make just as many posts that are just trying to antagonize as I make serious ones when it comes to sports. But I do take the whole cheating thing seriously, because of the whole victimization aspect (I shouldn't have to explain that). So the serious side of my argument mixed with the antagonizing part of my argument to make a post that had some good points but did not come together as a whole. I'll explain it all later.

 

[Pander Bear]

Do you think that players who get arrested at "irrelevant" programs don't show up in the headlines?

No, they don't. Just look at the fulmer cup posts about the University of Ohio, or Minnesota. Miami is an irrelevant school, btw, just though I'd add that as it seems to remind you of a horrible unspoken truth.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

No, they don't. Just look at the fulmer cup posts about the University of Ohio, or Minnesota. Miami is an irrelevant school, btw, just though I'd add that as it seems to remind you of a horrible unspoken truth.

lol. Florida will be irrelevant this year. Too bad the gators are too pussy to play the Canes more than once every six years, we could actually have resolution to this "who's better" question every year. Even the Seminoles never backed out of the Miami series, which is why I have respect for them despite my hatred.

The Gator's, by the way, have not played an out of conference game outside of the state of Florida since 1991, where they got rocked by the 'Cuse 31-7. That is a pussy program.

 

[Hypnotik1]

How many times have we been through this? Miami now runs one of the cleanest programs in the entire country. Lets see you try to find that list of Miami arrests that doesn't exist again. And I'll be damned if any Miami players are implicated in this agent thing. It is possible, considering how good these agents are at convincing players to take their dirty money, but Randy Shannon is better at preparing his athletes for this than any other coach in the nation (having been there and done that). I think he may be the only coach at a major program who saw this coming. Also, don't forget that former Miami Athletic Director Paul Dee is one of the top dogs heading these investigations for the NCAA. He has a chip on his shoulder from running a clean program while so many around him were breaking all the rules.

The SEC is going to be hit hard at the end of this, especially LSU even though their name hasn't come up yet. Les Miles runs a corrupt program and is too stupid to do it properly. Meyer's strategy is pure genius, every time he is about to get caught he self-reports and pretends like he just made a mistake. "Whoops, was I not supposed to contact a recruit during the dead period?" My bad, I'll just let you know about it. Secondary violations have piled up during his tenure. Not to mention the arrests http://i.bluelight.ru/s/tongue.gif

I don't know about Saban. Alabama, like Miami, has been in hot water for this before. It is very tough to get away with these things when your school has already been implicated before. It would be an lol moment if Saban gets them in trouble again. Very possible, I don't think even Alabama fans will disagree that the guy is a bit of a scumbag.

Where do u get all your top secret HS football insider knowledge? You some some super secret double recruiting agent or something?

You act like you and Randy Shannon are on a first name basis or something....


Anyways...As for who cheats and who doesnt....I believe CFB kinda works like this 'If you're not cheating, you're not really trying"

Im actually all for College athletes getting a lil bit of a kick back....Shit the coaches and NCAA make millions upon millions off their work and name....There's video games out with them on the cover and they wont see a dime...

 

[Pander Bear]

The Gator's, by the way, have not played an out of conference game outside of the state of Florida since 1991, where they got rocked by the 'Cuse 31-7. That is a pussy program.

Ya, you know, barring all those national championships and other bowl games. You're a prat.