Nf2 / nf3

[flowemotion]

Hello everybody,

I found two new research chemicals:

N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-p-tolylpentan-2-amine (NF 2)

(same picture as below but with a 3,4 methylendioxy instead of 4 methyl at the phenyl ring)

N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)pentan-2-amine (NF 3)


I've googled a little bit but found nothing . The most similar rcs I found were Pentylone and Methylbenzodioxolylpentanamine (which has no effects according to pihkal). What do you think may be the effects of this one?

Especially, do you think a compound with a pentanamine can have an stimulating properties (I asked myself why they didn't synthesize the same chemical, but propan instead of pentan amine this would be more similar to mdma) and what does the furan "replacement" (for the H)?

 

[Astavats]

Whether you did it intentionally or not, I highly recommend you remove that image before getting banned. Reported already.

Edit: It was linked to the vendor that's why I suggested you to remove it.

 

[flowemotion]

what do you mean with reported already? has some one other asked a question about nf2 /nf3 or have you reported that I have done something wrong?

In the first case, please give me the thread of the topic and I'll ask a moderator to close this one (however i didn't found one i think my questions fit good into the advanced drug dicussion section).

In the second, I would like to know how you anonymize a picture as the edit function only accepts links and no upload. Frankly, currently it does not matter much, anyone how is capable of copy and paste and using google will find a shop very fast.

@Astavats: Please don't get me wrong. I thankful for your suggestion. As you see i'm new here, but i learn fast ;-)
(I also was aware of this problem and asked a mod, next time better before.)

Now, I would like to discuss the new components if everybody agrees.

 

[Psiphi]

In the second, I would like to know how you anonymize a picture as the edit function only accepts links and no upload.

Save the pic to your hard drive and then use an image host like tinypic.com
I took the liberty and did it for you so we can get some discussion on these compounds

NF2

NF3

Now, I would like to discuss the new components if everybody agrees.

Agreed!

 

[wungchow]

i'm guessing these are prodrugs which form the corresponding secondary amines in vivo

 

[Alcyone]

Similar things have been done before, e.g. furfenorex.

The names are not consistent with the structures, or vice versa. The names indicate N-methyl,N-(furan-2-ylmethyl) substituents (tertiary amines), while the structures show furan-2-yl-1-ethyl (secondary amines). I'm guessing that the names are correct and the structures botched.

I'm not too excited about these. The corresponding cathinones or isopropylamines, now that would be a different matter.

 

[flowemotion]

Save the pic to your hard drive and then use an image host like tinypic.com
I took the liberty and did it for you so we can get some discussion on these compounds

Thank you for the clue and the upload.

Similar things have been done before, e.g. furfenorex.

interesting. this substance seems to be legal.

 

[hamhurricane]

so wait, do you think its a mistake they are alpha-propylated in the diagrams?

If thats the case then "NF2" will be the first MDMA prodrug ever marketed

 

[MeDieViL]

Wait, so this could be a mephedrone and MDMA prodrug?

 

[cbn5]

these structures seem more accurate...

NF3: N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)pentan-2-amine
NF2: N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-p-tolylpentan-2-amine

I found no scientific literature about these compounds...but they somehow reminded me of something i saw on isomerdesign (phikal) some time ago:

25I-NMeFur: N-(Furan-2-ylmethyl)-4-iodo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine

25I-NBMD: 4-Iodo-2,5-dimethoxy-N-2,3-methylenedioxybenzylphenethylamine

 

[Skyline_GTR]

Wait, so this could be a mephedrone and MDMA prodrug?

If its correct that "NF2" is an MDMA prodrug, I guess the other would be a prodrug for 4'methylmethamphetamine I think..

 

[fastandbulbous]

alpha propyl compounds are going to be a damp squib in all likelyhood

The corresponding cathinones or isopropylamines, now that would be a different matter.

Says it all (& I wouldn't even get that excited about the isopropylamines)

 

[nuke]

Incidentally, the corresponding ethyl amine to N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)pentan-2-amine (N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)ethan-2-amine) is potentially a very strong psychedelic drug if it withstands metabolic attack... Substitution with methoxy groups would probably enhance 5HT2A/2C affinity. But what are these compounds? Will someone look them up on scifinder? It seems like they may be substrates for DAT/NET/SERT, but there is a lot of bulkiness that would make me think otherwise, unless the metabolites themselves are active.

 

[mad_scientist]

Assuming the correct structure is the tertiary amine named rather than the badly drawn pictures provided, then these should be effective prodrugs a la furfenorex.

But why would anyone bother? As F&B points out above, without the beta ketone group added, the alpha propyl compounds are virtually inactive even at hundreds of milligrams, could probably eat grams of these prodrugs without much significant effect (other than any random toxicity produced from off-target binding)

Doubt they would have much effect as the parent compound with that bulky furanylmethyl group present, these look like the idea of someone with a rudimentary grasp of chemistry and pharmacology and enough knowledge of the SAR to make some educated guesses, just not enough knowledge for those guesses to be the right ones (though who knows what trial and error can produce )

The furanylmethyl group can indeed be used instead of benzyl to make more N-Bn-2Cx derivatives, but the in vitro numbers suggest it will be weaker than the corresponding thiophene. I always thought NBMD-MDPEA (i.e. N-(2,3-methylenedioxybenzyl)-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethylamine) looked promising, should be twice as empathogenic with a methylenedioxy group at each end!!

 

[vecktor]

from the structures these contain an alkyl furan moety, these are not good news due to the likelyhood of hepatotoxicity especially if the doses of these substances are measured in tens or hundreds of mg. alkyl furan is highly reactive in vivo.

Due to the much lower dosage this is probably much less of an issue with the 5ht2a agonists

 

[MurphyClox]

But what are these compounds? Will someone look them up on scifinder?

N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-p-tolylpentan-2-amine:
SciFinder-status: unknown

N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)pentan-2-amine:
SciFinder-status: unknown

N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)ethan-2-amine:
CAS: Ahhh...better not...
SciFinder-status: Known, but no viable pharmacological info. They were tested as antifibrillatory agents (suppression of cardiac arrhythmias) by CIBA in the 1950s and N-(furan-2-ylmethyl)-N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)ethan-2-amine was found to be oustanding in this respect. More details can be found in: Tripod, Spillmann, Hoffmann; Arch Int Pharmacodyn 1951, 85, p.121 (no access for me).



The complete lack of any follow-up research looks suspicious to me. It is already worrisome that the RC community is dealing with hardly researched compounds, but in this case I'd say we are talking about unknown compounds.
With unknown profile of action.
And unknown toxicity

You better take care!


Let's assume for a second that these compounds indeed serve as prodrugs for the "de-furanylated" derivatives (I haven't seen much unambiguous evidence for this assumption). The usual by-products of such a metabolic transformation should leave the corresponding amine and aldehyde, like in a retro-imine-formation. In this case this would mean that we are confronted with furane-2-carbaldehyde a.k.a. furfural. This compound is known to be poisonous for humans, with sensitizing properties upon repeated resp. prolonged exposure and is suspected to be carcinogenic, too. Bad bad news folks!

Peace! - Murphy

 

[OrdeM]

Don't have the chemical knowledge to add much to this thread.

What I have always wondered is why pro-hormones have been sold and marketed to bypass the law on steroids....yet no one has done it for recreational drugs.
I assume it is more difficult to do? Seems like you can buy a pro-hormone that metabolises to any steroid!

Does this seem like the first attempt? Where it is actually the metabolites that are active? By the sounds of things the difficult part is working out how to produce good metabolites and not the bad ones.

 

[Alcyone]

^ That's an interesting thought. I can't remember seeing any prodrugs of purely recreational substances or RCs, but there are bucketloads of stimulant prodrugs which have been used therapeutically. Furfenorex, mefenorex, clobenzorex, fenproporex, benzphetamine, amphetaminil, fenethylline, fencamine, famprofazone, phendimetrazine, morazone and fenbutrazate, just to name a handful. Most of these are scheduled, of course, but some of them might be of interest to anyone venturing into prodrug RCs.

One of them strikes me as particularly intriguing. Famprofazone analogues, anyone?

(Oh, and prohormones/legal steroids are generally considered crap, and with a few exceptions they're nowhere near the real deal. This isn't my field at all, but as an ex amateur bodybuilder (female, mind you) I've briefly dabbled in steroids and I've picked up a thing or two from the big boys.)

 

[vecktor]

there are a lot of good reasons why recreational prodrugs are very rare.

The parent drug is usually illegal and most syntheses of prodrugs require the parent drug, the conversion to the prodrug has to either be complete or the purification leave no detectable parent compound, besides if the illegal drug is required to make the prodrug why would a clandestine operator bother making the prodrug, a classic example is ALD-52, it is theoretically possible to make without LSD, but in reality it is not.

The prodrug has to metabolize effectively to the parent drug in vivo but not decompose to any detectable amount of the parent drug on storage, a very difficult set of requirements. most pharma prodrugs decompose slowly on storage, and with modern analytical equipment it only takes less than 1 in a milion molecules to change before there will be detectable amounts of the illegal parent.

There are often unusual bioavailability and person to person variability issues with prodrugs These are solvable but often need considerable resources., in pharma drug development, it is usual for prodrugs to be considered as a last worst option when everything has failed, it is a far better strategy to go back and modify the lead compound to get round the problems. As Random Crap drugs have next to no research done on them prior to them being thrown at unsuspecting consumers these problems are likely to be impossible to overcome, it requires resources and intelligence to prodrug a target compound because of the added complexity, something the Random Crap suppliers do not have.

I'm sure there are more reasons

 

[OrdeM]

there are a lot of good reasons why recreational prodrugs are very rare.

The parent drug is usually illegal and most syntheses of prodrugs require the parent drug, the conversion to the prodrug has to either be complete or the purification leave no detectable parent compound, besides if the illegal drug is required to make the prodrug why would a clandestine operator bother making the prodrug, a classic example is ALD-52, it is theoretically possible to make without LSD, but in reality it is not.

The prodrug has to metabolize effectively to the parent drug in vivo but not decompose to any detectable amount of the parent drug on storage, a very difficult set of requirements. most pharma prodrugs decompose slowly on storage, and with modern analytical equipment it only takes less than 1 in a milion molecules to change before there will be detectable amounts of the illegal parent.

There are often unusual bioavailability and person to person variability issues with prodrugs These are solvable but often need considerable resources., in pharma drug development, it is usual for prodrugs to be considered as a last worst option when everything has failed, it is a far better strategy to go back and modify the lead compound to get round the problems. As Random Crap drugs have next to no research done on them prior to them being thrown at unsuspecting consumers these problems are likely to be impossible to overcome, it requires resources and intelligence to prodrug a target compound because of the added complexity, something the Random Crap suppliers do not have.

I'm sure there are more reasons

I was hoping you would give an answer on pro-drugs.

Insightful as always. From what you say then some pro-hormones start out life as the original streroid...and may eventually decompose partially to the illegal steroid.

Surprises me then why the powers to be allow this industry to continue. Maybe Daily Mail readers don't mind steroids as much!

Pro-hormones are big business....probably the biggest RC in vivo test to date when you think about it!

Damm, never thought I'd find this stuff so interesting....goes looking for books on organic chemistry and pharmacology....