Important: What should be in the Codeine FAQ?

[ayjay]

Hey Crankinit that erowid link looks pretty crap - author seems to have a poor knowledge of chemistry. Also confusing that table shows codeine solubility down as temperature up - is that really right?

Using just cold water, or hot water then cooling, is probably much of a muchness EXCEPT there is a risk that cooling a hot solution will cause slight loss of yield - dissolved codeine trapped within precipitating APAP (I use "APAP" rather than "paracetamol" as it has less letters and I am lazy). This is certainly what happens when preparing an MS Contin tablet for injection.

 

[phase_dancer]

Also confusing that table shows codeine solubility down as temperature up - is that really right?

Calcium phosphate is less soluble in hot water, and phosphate salts often don't have linear solubilities due to the existence of several temp dependent hydration states, and their relative solubilities. This is why such results should be confirmed and expanded upon. I don't wish to encourage anyone not already doing extractions to participate in this, but for those who are regularly doing CWEs, it only involves accurate measurements, and recording results.

Since we are Australian specific I think we should be talking Paracetamol instead of acetaminophen

I like the IUPAC name; N-(4-hydroxyphenyl)acetamide. At least there's no mistaking what the structure is But yes, paracetamol is probably the better generic to use.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Anon54 is probably about to post in this thread right now with a question about CWE on the directions of Sykik. This thread should be about the codeine mega thread right, not questions about how to do a CWE?

What is going to happen when this situation arises in the future? Will the poster have to contact the mods and then the mods may allow them a thread to have their question answered, then the information merged into the mega thread?

 

[belarki]

^ haha yeh i just saw his post, was about to reply but didn't as my response wasn't very polite, and then sykik closed the thread. It's kind of frustrating to see these questions being asked over and over again ad nauseum when all of the information is already plastered all over bluelight in the 2 billion codeine threads. I mean you did a CWE FAQ which was really good however the useful info got buried at the start of a 50 page codeine social thread...

Perhaps with the FAQ there could be a short guide that could be posted at the start of every single page? It's kind of patronising to people reading the thread but from what I've seen it may be necessary when people are too lazy to check the first posts.

 

[phase_dancer]

I'd say for now refer to Erowid or any onsite reference, or even to the closed CWE threads. The process is simple enough, there should be no need for extensive descriptions, which only serve to confuse anyway. When someone comes up with a written procedure (that also addresses issues raised here and elsewhere), I'll look over it and offer comment on the wording of the method.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Have you seen my megathread in OD? I like to think it's quite comprehensive, and I would be happy to reword it for AusDD.

Belarki: I imagine there will probably only be one page as the thread will be closed.

 

[belarki]

^ and stickied then I take it?

 

[Anon54]

Had a few Valium & I've decided to do a CWE on some Panadeine Fortes
U know how u put ya APAP & Codeine in the freezer & they seperate leaving water over the solifified APAP?

Well I'd rather just tip the water above the APAP sludge at the bottom of the glass into the filter without stiring the mix first because it always blocks up my coffee filters to quick & makes the process take lot more time so I think it would be easier to just add a few more pills unless ofcourse alot of the Codeine is within that APAP sludge.
I crush & stir the tablets before putting into freezer obviously btw.

When I do CWE with 150mL of water the sludge layer takes up about 1/5 of the solution & the water above takes up about 4/5 of the solution so I assume I'm just gunna be loosing 1/5 of the Codeine but will save me a hell of alot of time with filtering.

So I suppose my basic question is, Does the Codeine seperate equally through-out the water? (& I'll only be loosing 1/5 of it) or do u think more of it gets trapped up within the APAP sludge at the bottom & it's essential to stir it up to get a higher fraction of Codeine?

Another question, If u leave your solution in the freezer for to long & the water starts to freeze does this fuck up some of the codeine or can u just leave it out to thor for a while?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Some of the codeine will be trapped in the APAP.

Stir it, pour through a shirt and then the coffee filter to speed up the process.

If some of it freezes it's fine, just make sure you thaw it completely before doing the CWE.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ Have you seen my megathread in OD? I like to think it's quite comprehensive, and I would be happy to reword it for AusDD.

aye, tis quite the comprehensive guide. probably worth copy over here if its decided. i'm more than welcome doing that

fot those unfamilar i bring you the wonderful resource blondey gave to OD. sure it's still got the inevitable repetitive questions but has a great deal of more information

New! - Cold Water Extraction Mega Thread & FAQ

it's still a popular thread in OD, can't see that changing for a while either.

 

[Anon54]

OK belarki, I know there's alot of threads about CWE but how am I to know if this question I've asked has already been answered unless I read though a million posts.
I can't really do a search on "Codeine seperate equally through-out water" can I?

 

[Anon54]

Some of the codeine will be trapped in the APAP.

Stir it, pour through a shirt and then the coffee filter to speed up the process.

If some of it freezes it's fine, just make sure you thaw it completely before doing the CWE.

I know some of the codeine is trapped in the apap, but is it more-so than in the rest of the soluition because I'm sick of putting all that sludge through my coffee filters if it's only gunna get me a slight bit more codeine. it's not worth the extra 1/2 hr wait when the water above the sludge goes thorugh quickly. (but the putting it thorugh a shirt first is a good idea)

Anyways, I'm assuming that the Codeine is spread equally through the water if u know what I mean.

 

[Jabberwocky]

to Anon : ^theres a "search this thread" pop-down menu at the top right hand corner near the beginning of the thread. type in your specific search words in there and it should help you narrow it down

 

[belarki]

I know some of the codeine is trapped in the apap, but is it more-so than in the rest of the soluition because I'm sick of putting all that sludge through my coffee filters if it's only gunna get me a slight bit more codeine. it's not worth the extra 1/2 hr wait when the water above the sludge goes thorugh quickly.

^ hence filtering through a shirt or cloth first, then you will have next to no "sludge" in your coffee filters.


.... waits to be reprimanded for dragging the thread further off topic....

 

[phase_dancer]

^ Have you seen my megathread in OD? I like to think it's quite comprehensive, and I would be happy to reword it for AusDD.

Yes I have. Please do. I thought Psilo was speaking to you about this.

The eventual aim is for the FAQ to be closed and stickied. Hopefully, between the experience you and other AusDD posters have already gained from the questions raised previously, the FAQ will be comprehensive enough to address most questions raised in the future. That way, depending on what the other mods think, we can possibly have a 3rd questions related thread where most if not all responses refer to parts of the FAQ.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Oh God...

Anon, yes the codeine is spread equally throughout the water. It will be in a greater concentration then in the APAP because it is dissolved in the water whereas the codeine in the APAP is just trapped there in whatever water there is in the sludge.

As belarki pointed out, I said you should use a shirt first then through a coffee filter it will save you time and you will get everything out, no way should it take half an hour.

ETA:

Yes I have. Please do. I thought Psilo was speaking to you about this.

The eventual aim is for the FAQ to be closed and stickied. Hopefully, between the experience you and other AusDD posters have already gained from the questions raised previously, the FAQ will be comprehensive enough to address most questions raised in the future. That way, depending on what the other mods think, we can possibly have a 3rd questions related thread where most if not all responses refer to parts of the FAQ

He kinda was but our conversations keep getting side tracked.

I was going to start on another mega thread for TDS, but I will put that on the back burner for now and focus on this. I am playing guitar and trying to learn a few songs now but tonight I should have some time when I get home to work on this thread properly.

I think a third thread might be a good idea just so we have somewhere for the unusual unanswered question, obviously this thread would have to be moderated heavily to prevent it going the way of the other threads.

 

[Anon54]

Perhaps with the FAQ there could be a short guide that could be posted at the start of every single page? It's kind of patronising to people reading the thread but from what I've seen it may be necessary when people are too lazy to check the first posts.

hey I had a few Valiums. I am too lazy... anyways
if 100mg-500mg of APAP is soluble at 22 degrees is soluble in 150mL of water I don't see why people arn't using like 300mL because even is it wasn't but in the freezer and it was 22 degrees the most APAP in the solution would be 1g which is actually the reccomended dose for APAP.
Suppose u lowered the temp to 5 degrees it should, in theory be OK to use half a litre of water & still be at around 500mg of APAP elinating the need to bother with extracting from the sludge layer & making the extraction alot quicker assumiong the Codeine dissolves equally throughout the water.
This is all in theory though. I wouldn't use more than 200mL just to be on the safe side.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ It's more like a gram is soluble in 100ml of water at that temperature.

I use around 300ml or a bit less, I don't measure it anymore. I have used codeine a lot and had quite a problem with it and my liver has just been verified to be fine via a liver function test.

In theory no that is ridiculous to use that much water, have you seen any data on what the solubility of APAP is that low? I haven't but I'm guessing it's going to still be a potentially dangerous amount in solution, not even counting the particles suspended in the liquid. Unless you do an experiment to confirm that theory (not consuming it of course) or see some solid data then I would not try that. Even if it's only 5 grams of APAP it's more then you want and if you use a CWE regularly or consume APAP regularly, drink a lot etc, then that could be dangerous.

 

[MrIbis]

Yeah there is a lot of work that can be done.. I really think with the addiction treatment parts though, OMT should be avoided at all costs.

As far as I am concerned, Codeine should probably be titrated and weened down gradually, rather than swapping onto a stronger, and longer lasting opioid drug. There might be a few different schools of thought on this. I also take into account that a lot of younger opiate users tend to consider themselves addicted simply for the purpose of getting cheap opiates by the OMT programs. I myself did this many years ago, fucked my tolerance right up.

I'd say as far as all of the treatment options are concerned probably lefty and myself (and maybe Mr Blonde too, to a degree) should write up those sections. I'm happy to do some work on the guide with the rest of you guys - as I have a fuckload of time on my hands and very little to do with it.

 

[Anon54]

thx leftwing maybe next time I'll UTFSE but for now all I can be bothered is watchin tv
& thx Mr Blond for calrifying that codeine is dissolved equally for times I cant be bothered with the sludge layer. Easier just to add more pills and more water IMO. anyways it's all good now. I was thirsty & have had a nice drink of lemon-aid