Newtown Teen Took DMT, Cops say, Man Arrested

the fact of the matter is, it has no relevance that she smoked DMT.

one- it lasts roughly 5 minutes.
two- its difficult to move when high and trippin on it.
three- if she was at a gathering and smoking dmt with friends, theres no way they would
have let her leave that residence under the influence, IF she could walk out. which is incredibly unlikely.


all this is is a bullshit article to give a negative connotation to dmt.
notice how articles like this always mention the negative/side effects of a drug but never
mention the profoundly positive, amazing qualities and effects?
funny that, isnt it?


this is like CNN & FoxNews- not news by any means whatsoever, simply an opinion piece.

boycott this news agency!
 
^The second article posted says they didn't smoke it, they snorted it, which changes the duration of effects dramatically. They weren't taking turns smoking so one person would be coming down and be better able to watch over others who had just recently smoked. It sounds like they probably all snorted it at the same time. Other posters have given reasons why using DMT probably was relevant to her death.
Police said Ham divided the powder into four small lines, telling the others they were "big lines and were a lot for the first time." O'Connor, Ham, Kiely and Jacobsen then took turns snorting the lines of powder, police said. The four then stretched out on the living room floor.
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look... everyone is quite confident that the DMT wasn't involved in this, and that the guy who ripped his friend's heart out on shrooms was just crazy.

LOOK

psychedelics ARE NO FUCKING JOKE people... I have done them more than I can even remember.


BUT, I do believe bad shit can happen when people are not prepared, or when the universe just takes you for a spin on the roller coaster of heaven and hell....


please be careful... seriously.... until you are quite proficient in psychedelic exploration don't do it with a bunch of high school kids. Have at LEAST one person sober who has done psychedelics.

It can be dangerous to actually believe you are in hell and that your soul has been sucked out and broken into tiny puzzle pieces and you hear the force of evil telling you that the world is over and you will suffer eternally.

some know what I am talking about....

some don't...

you know who you are friends.

trust me or not, but I do happen to know a thing or two about this.
 
^good post

Psychedelic ~ mind manifesting

They are tools. A tool can be a weapon. A weapon in the wrong hands(mind) can cause unnecessary damage. Your mind has to be ready for any psychedelic experience. These are not bullshit instant gratification drugs like cocaine and heroin or (legal) benzos, you can not take a psychedelic while in distress and expect it to 'fix' you. They will whip ur ass if you don't know what you are doing, and even sometimes when you DO know what you are doing..
 
The pond is directly adjacent to the condos she was in, so it would only be a short stumble to the edge and into the water. I don't know what's up with the people moving out of the condos the day after because there isn't any suspicion of foul play as far as I've heard and none of the other papers have mentioned anything about that.

I think it's obvious that this was very reckless drug use on the part of the girl, but Ham should have known better than to supply DMT to what was likely a hallucinogen-naive girl who didn't realize what she was getting into. I don't think he is solely responsible or had any intention of harming the girl, but I feel he did contribute to her death by giving her the DMT and allowing her to leave while under the influence of it. A bunch of people who don't even know each other sitting around snorting lines of DMT is an accident waiting to happen.

I've never snorted DMT, but I have smoked it, with a sober sitter watching me. I don't even remember exhaling, just being shot out of a cannon into space. I can only imagine how disorienting a large insufflated dose could get before you are completely incapacitated. Just a tragedy all around.

~CTdopeLove
 
Here is a fairly large amount of beer.
I will put it on this table.
It is too much for a first-time user like you. (There is your warning!)

You drink all of the beer. You leave the room.
I am drunk, and can't/don't follow you or protect you.
Do you really need me to take care of you?
I have never even met you before.
You walk outside, stumble, and fall into some water. You drown.

Your death is my fault, since I put the beer on the table and allowed you to help yourself (while warning you not to drink all of it).
Your death is also to be blamed on alcohol.
Your death is certainly not your own fault.

??????????
 
I know what you are saying, but DMT and alcohol are obviously 2 completely different things.

Speaking of beer, I should go buy a 40 real quick.
 
It is really sad, I dunno, i definitely suspect "foul play", and of course, I dont think the DMT was actually a factor. My 2 cents.
 
yeah good point slimvictor. the girl wasnt forced to do anything, she was lured by her own curiosity and will. if anything is to be blamed its her own ignorance...putting any chemical into your body without knowing its effects, specially a large dose on the first time is extremely dangerous. not knowing how your body is going to react can produce alot of irrational behavior.

i dont mean to say that the girl got what she deserved, but the only person to blame is her. she put herself in the position that caused the unfortunate events that lead to her death. it was her choice, if she had chosen not to, she would still be alive. sad, but true.
 
There's some good posts in here.

This story really stirred my curiosity because at a glance I just couldn't fathom how DMT could be implicated in something like this, and it's made me reflect on potential consequences from it and reevaluate my views. I've snorted DMT a number of times, and a couple times in totally outrageous amounts...like .3-.5g in one go...alone way the fuck out in the wilderness while peaking on a 10g cube trip even. I was a disaster in that setting, expanding outside of myself until I became everything and died. Perhaps not physiological death, but what I went through was so utterly familiar and timeless and generally beyond the scope of literary discription that I'll never be convinced that it was anything else. Anyway I don't mean to turn this into a trip report, but I have a solid grasp of what can happen to people being initially immersed in a DMT trip.

I've seen this sort of thing before...people getting insanely wigged and trying to take off somewhere, completely disoriented. Tearing their clothes off, squirming all over the ground...it's really no joke. Even knowing what to expect myself and having a good resume of DMT and psychedelic use, there's always that chance that you'll bug and become a danger to yourself and I've been on that threshold before. I can see it...the snorted trip takes a few minutes to really build up full strength. On the ride up, while you're still functioning, you get a sense of how far out you're about to go and it seems like you're about to run full-steam off a cliff. I bet that's what was going through her mind as she bailed. Of course, this assumes that this was in fact DMT.

Very unfortunate ending. Moral of the story? DMT should not be used to impress your friends and acquaintances. I have a feeling there was some element of that going on here...hot young girl is curious or impressionable and someone sees the opportunity to impress her with a fat line of DMT. Probably never thought something like this would happen.

Oh yeah, BOOOO on the original article. Fucking worthless journalists :! !!! If this was alcohol nobody would even bat an eye, shit happens practically everyday. But because it's DMT, they leverage the fact that some exotic drug was involved into a major piece of sensationalism and throw in a bunch of absolute horseshit scare 'facts' for good measure. I swear, if I was king these journalists would be made into gladiators that had to fight to the death with pencils.
 
FractalStructure said:
EDIT: oh, and he had a gun, and was apparently suicidal. well then, why blame the dmt?
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well i see it this way

he had a gun.......he's from texas, its not uncommon here

he was suicidal.........well if someone told me a girl i just met, died the night i gave here some DMT, i might feel responsible as well, "man if i had anything to do with her dealth then i'd just wanna die"

who knows how it went down, maybe dude is a complete shiester, who knows, im just sayin

but i do agree with you, why automatically blame the DMT?
 
Mafioso said:
yeah good point slimvictor. the girl wasnt forced to do anything, she was lured by her own curiosity and will. if anything is to be blamed its her own ignorance...putting any chemical into your body without knowing its effects, specially a large dose on the first time is extremely dangerous. not knowing how your body is going to react can produce alot of irrational behavior.

i dont mean to say that the girl got what she deserved, but the only person to blame is her. she put herself in the position that caused the unfortunate events that lead to her death. it was her choice, if she had chosen not to, she would still be alive. sad, but true.
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Yeah, but we live in a world where McDonald's is responsible for making you fat, not your decision to eat food from McDonald's.
 
slimvictor said:
Isn't this taking the responsibility thing a little too far?
I understand feeling upset that someone you just turned on to a beautiful chemical died...
But was it really your fault?
In what sense was it your fault?

If I gave someone a chemical like DMT, and they died, I don't think I would take responsibility for their death, unless there were very specific circumstances not directly related to the DMT.
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You're thinking they murdered her or something right?

I don't agree. I mean they could have, but I'd feel guilty too. That's why I never, ever give anyone a drug they haven't had before. I did once, and then told the person not to take it because I was worried sick about what could happen. Of course you would feel bad.
 
psood0nym said:
^

Given the ambiguities of timing in the story, it's entirely plausible she could have reached the apparent location of her death while still peaking. It's true that insufflated DMT lasts a short time -- I think around 40 minutes is typical -- but if it was a large dose in a small first time user female the duration of the most intense effects could be more than long enough for her to walk 150 yards and go into the water. I've overdosed on ayahuasca and proprioception was gone during the trip -- that is, my awareness of the position of my limbs was totally distorted. Perhaps she didn't know how to swim in the first place, we don't know, but accidentally falling into water because of disorientation and panic and then not being able to coordinate the movements of her body enough to stay afloat is a very real possibility. Even discounting that, she could have stepped into some deep water, fallen, and struck her head on a log. Regardless, I don't think it's accurate to say any drug killed a person unless it's totally plausible that its physiological effects alone are capable of causing death, and of course in the case of DMT that's not true. A number of factors likely contributed to her death, and there probably is no one cause or rationally defensible accusation of responsibility for the tragedy. We look for foul play because we want there to be some definite cause of death, something we can predict or deduce, so that we feel we have more control over the lives of ourselves and loved ones than we actually do.

EDIT: I'm not saying anyone who posted here is guilty of this, but I think we also personify chemicals like DMT that have given us beautiful and profound experiences. I love drugs and think they should be legalized and regulated, but at the same time I have to say I've definitely come across a lot of absurdly pro-drug opinions on drug discussion boards. We don't like the idea that something so great for us could play a strong role in something so tragic as this, so there is a, perhaps unconscious, motivation for us to look for ways that it could be otherwise. But I'm pretty sure even the "spirit molecule" is just a chemical that is totally indifferent to our joys and suffering.
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The water was three feet deep apparently. It's not the responsibility of drug dealers to make sure people use their drugs safely.
 
psychomimetic said:
The water was three feet deep apparently. It's not the responsibility of drug dealers to make sure people use their drugs safely.
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I disagree with this. Ultimate responsibility always rests with the end user, but I can think of examples where a complete disregard for client safety could lead to tragic outcomes. People are ignorant as fuck, and some drugs can really fuck you over if you don't know what you were doing. If this girl had never heard of DMT and had no idea what to expect, don't you think what happened is partly the fault of whoever provided? She put faith in other people's judgment and died for it. It's like selling some ignorant mope a car with no brakes. He gets in, takes off, crashes and dies. Yeah, should have checked first himself, but people are ignorant and that should always be your first assumption when supplying exotic drugs (or cars with no brakes). I don't know, maybe there's no answer here and it just comes down to personal values. But personally, I think if you give someone drugs and they are in your presence, you assume the responsibility to at least inform them of what can happen. That's just me though.
 
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