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NEWS: Nurofen + etc to be made Prescription only!!!

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I guess the way I see it is a massive majority will end up addicted in the end, might as well nip it now before its much harder. I realise that's a big assumption to make, but it is often the case. My bupe doctor said he has prescribed 0.4mg bupe for codeine addicts as well so it does happen.
 
I believe doctors would prescribe actual codeine addicts bupe but not people using codeine twice a week, bit of a difference.

I have to say that is a pretty big assumption to make that the majority will end up addicted. I really don't think that if you looked at the amount of people who use codeine regularly that a good majority of them would end up with real dependencies on it. For many tolerance limits ones ability to really become dependent on codeine, like if I use codeine much more than once or twice a week my tolerance skyrockets. I *could* just use every single day with next to no effect, but there isn't really any benefit to me doing it, I think I would realise it wasn't worth my while to spend that much everyday not getting high compared to spending less and catching a buzz once or twice a week. Throw occassional access to harder opiates in the mix and tolerance becomes a hugely limiting factor on ones propensity to become hooked on codeine.

One issue/question you have not addressed, is why do you believe someone using codeine a few days a week is better off being on ORT? Codeine is relatively inexpensive and has relatively few harmful effects, there are costs and side effects associated with ORT too. If someone can afford their codeine habit, however large or small, then as I see it they are doing themselves relatively minimal harm and whether they change to ORT or not wont really change that. I keep coming back to the conclusion you must believe there is something inherently wrong with getting 'high' on opiates, as that is the only thing that would really change on bupe.

I am also curious what your thoughts are when I suggest DHC as a better starting option than bupe to help someone maintain or taper a codeine habit? I am by no means an expert on ORT but if someone is addicted to an opiate as mild as codeine it would seem easier on the addict to give them the lowest potency maintenance possible, so as to not actually end up increasing their level of physical dependence.
 
I believe doctors would prescribe actual codeine addicts bupe but not people using codeine twice a week, bit of a difference.

I know, I didn't say you, just said its an option to people out there that are using more often.

I have to say that is a pretty big assumption to make that the majority will end up addicted. I really don't think that if you looked at the amount of people who use codeine regularly that a good majority of them would end up with real dependencies on it. For many tolerance limits ones ability to really become dependent on codeine, like if I use codeine much more than once or twice a week my tolerance skyrockets. I *could* just use every single day with next to no effect, but there isn't really any benefit to me doing it, I think I would realise it wasn't worth my while to spend that much everyday not getting high compared to spending less and catching a buzz once or twice a week. Throw occassional access to harder opiates in the mix and tolerance becomes a hugely limiting factor on ones propensity to become hooked on codeine.

That is the issue, most people turn to harder drugs, look at mr blondes posts saying he will start looking for morphine as codeine is too expensive etc. You are right, not all will or do, but plenty certainly do, and having this information available to them is HR.

One issue/question you have not addressed, is why do you believe someone using codeine a few days a week is better off being on ORT? Codeine is relatively inexpensive and has relatively few harmful effects, there are costs and side effects associated with ORT too. If someone can afford their codeine habit, however large or small, then as I see it they are doing themselves relatively minimal harm and whether they change to ORT or not wont really change that. I keep coming back to the conclusion you must believe there is something inherently wrong with getting 'high' on opiates, as that is the only thing that would really change on bupe.

I don't think they are all better off, I just suggested it as a possibility for some people, I'm sure there are plenty that it would make the situation worse just like you described, but there are also others that it could help get them out of a bind. They should be able to diagnose what category they are in along with the help of addictionologist.

Something inherently wrong? Well a lot of the time people are using it as a bandaid to them feeling shit, mental illness or just boredom, if you can treat it like your few drinks on the weekend then more power to you, just unlike alcohol codeine CAN lead to opiate dependency on stronger drugs that can really drag your life down. If this is not an issue, then you are right, bupe would not be of any use.

I am also curious what your thoughts are when I suggest DHC as a better starting option than bupe to help someone maintain or taper a codeine habit? I am by no means an expert on ORT but if someone is addicted to an opiate as mild as codeine it would seem easier on the addict to give them the lowest potency maintenance possible, so as to not actually end up increasing their level of physical dependence.

DHC is great for quitting codeine, only prob is you are dispensing it yourself, you aren't get a specific dosage daily from a chemist. This leaves the problem of willpower, most people will just go fuck it and use it all, either not fixing the problem or making it worse, I know it did with me.

If you do have the will power to use DHC to quit codeine, you probably have enough to do it cold turkey. Bupe is for the addicts that really struggle with the psychological side of quitting, the daily dispensing so you cant use your supply in a week, the fact you don't catch a buzz so you get used to the sober life style, and the slow taper.

If you don't need all of the above, or if you don't even feel that codeine is detrimental to your lifestyle (it usually isn't, it is just what it can lead to that can be) then bupe is probably of no use to you, for many of the reasons you suggested.
 
You actually did recommend suboxone to me on the very last page even though I clearly stipulated I was not a codeine addict. When I asked why you would suggest it to me regardless I never got a response. Maybe you didn't read the part of my post I said I wasn't hooked on codeine, but if I am honest, if you didn't even read my whole post and would still suggest suboxone that is a little irresponsible.

Mr Blonde looking for morphine is a direct result of these bullshit new laws making it more expensive. It is not a result of an escalating addiction I don't think because as far as I am aware he kicked it. I don't think this is a very good example of anything other than why it makes sense to keep codeine as cheap as it was and let people buy as much as they see fit. There is a user on here, I think it is static mind, who is a codeine addict but thanks to codeine addiction will never use harder opiates, if it weren't for codeine there is a good chance he would of tried a harder opiate and who knows where he would be.

I would agree that codeine definately turns people on to harder opiates, but I would equally wager for everyone it turns on to harder opiates there is someone who doesn't need to try heroin or oxy (or atleast would do so much less often) because they are satisfied with codeine.

You are right a lot of people self medicate with opiates because of other problems, but if this was the case then I think seeing a psychiatrist and determining the real problem should take priority over ORT. Just going on bupe isn't going to solve these problems and I don't remember reading any suggestion of psychiatric treatment in your posts about bupe, although that could just be my memory letting me down?

That last point you make about dispensing DHC yourself is a good one, but I suppose my answer would be that someone isn't likely to be successful staying off their opiate of choice unless they really want to. That applies to straight kicking, tapering, maintenance or anything else really. So assuming someone has to be 100% serious before they have any real odds of success, it shouldn't make much difference if they dispense themselves or not, because if they can't handle that then they likely would of failed regardless.
 
You actually did recommend suboxone to me on the very last page even though I clearly stipulated I was not a codeine addict. When I asked why you would suggest it to me regardless I never got a response. Maybe you didn't read the part of my post I said I wasn't hooked on codeine, but if I am honest, if you didn't even read my whole post and would still suggest suboxone that is a little irresponsible.

Well you know where I am coming from now and what I was trying to achieve with my posts, so I am sorry if I mis read your post earlier.

Mr Blonde looking for morphine is a direct result of these bullshit new laws making it more expensive. It is not a result of an escalating addiction I don't think because as far as I am aware he kicked it. I don't think this is a very good example of anything other than why it makes sense to keep codeine as cheap as it was and let people buy as much as they see fit. There is a user on here, I think it is static mind, who is a codeine addict but thanks to codeine addiction will never use harder opiates, if it weren't for codeine there is a good chance he would of tried a harder opiate and who knows where he would be.

I would agree that codeine definately turns people on to harder opiates, but I would equally wager for everyone it turns on to harder opiates there is someone who doesn't need to try heroin or oxy (or atleast would do so much less often) because they are satisfied with codeine.

You could write an entire thesis on this debate, point is there is ORT out there if it is determined that it could be beneficial for you.

You are right a lot of people self medicate with opiates because of other problems, but if this was the case then I think seeing a psychiatrist and determining the real problem should take priority over ORT. Just going on bupe isn't going to solve these problems and I don't remember reading any suggestion of psychiatric treatment in your posts about bupe, although that could just be my memory letting me down?

To get on ORT seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist is basically mandatory along with one that specialises in addiction. It was not an over site on my behalf, they will make sure that you are looked after if you admit yourself to a clinic.

someone has to be 100% serious before they have any real odds of success, it shouldn't make much difference if they dispense themselves or not, because if they can't handle that then they likely would of failed regardless.

I was 100% serious every-time I tried to quit, even with the support of people and the advice on here I failed time after time. For some people it really is a life saver hence me giving it so much air time in this thread.
 
Fair enough, I do see where your coming from and I am not saying it doesn't have a place in this thread. The fact you suggested it to me lead me to believe you were a tad overzealous in your suggestion but it is all good.

If you had success this way then power to you, and I certainly hope there is someone out there who benefits from the information you have posted in this thread.

I still think maybe just because bupe worked for you that you are quick to recommend it to anyone who *may* have a problem. I also think that you are not viewing certain peoples situations objectively, and possibly because of your past issues are quick to classify recreational use bordering on abuse as addiction.
 
I can't get anything over 24 packs of codeine/paracetomol products where i am- same with N+, before may 1 you could get 100 packs anywhere! 2 pharmacies i'VE been to have actually taken my name and details when buying the a pack of 24! wtf!!! and they're not pharmacies I frequent at all, so they shouldn't suspect me of anything and I'm usually looking alright, just coming from work and all.
 
Coopie thats fucked mate! Maybe it is just taking a while for the pharmacies near you to get up to speed, you should see 40 packs of para/cod and 30 packs of ibu/cod very soon.

I found out today I can get access to a packet of naltrexone, so I may do some investigating on the link posted by nabollocks and give it a whirl. Definately going to read my ass off before I decide though.
 
I still think maybe just because bupe worked for you that you are quick to recommend it to anyone who *may* have a problem. I also think that you are not viewing certain peoples situations objectively, and possibly because of your past issues are quick to classify recreational use bordering on abuse as addiction.

Perhaps that is the case.
 
Cheers Drug mentor! I might look into that! - it is indeed fucked to say the least - I hell get bad vibes when I get asked for my details and that, I wonder why they do that?

I've even been sold a 15 pack of panefen + before, and have been told they don't come in 24'a anymore? huh?
 
Cheers Drug mentor! I might look into that! - it is indeed fucked to say the least - I hell get bad vibes when I get asked for my details and that, I wonder why they do that?

I've even been sold a 15 pack of panefen + before, and have been told they don't come in 24'a anymore? huh?

I think they come in 30s instead now.
 
drug_mentor don't under estimate Codeine. I used it for several years with no addiction. I would only use it on weekends and special occasions.


...special occasions.

Weekends only you can probably get by but from my experence special occasions are the kicker. Starts off with birthdays and what not and over about a year EVERYTHING is a special occasion. Codeine changes the way you think without even reliseing.

In saying that though, I too am unsure if ORTs are really a good idea. Codeine in comparasion to the other opiates is really as weak as they get. I do fear that the ORTs might be a worse addiction the the Codeine itself.
 
I don't underestimate codeine at all static mind, and to be honest if I was as good at metabolising it as certain others are I may be in hot water myself. I was merely pointing out that for many people codeine limits itself by way of tolerance.

I have used drugs daily for years, I don't justify codeine with "special occassions" or weekends. I use whenever I feel like basically, Thursday is the only day I pretty much universally use because I have no TAFE on Friday but am not inclined to go out socially of a Thursday night, also I often have a friend who also imbibes codeine over on a Thursday as it suits both our schedules. Other than that I really don't plan it out, I don't feel like there needs to be a special occassion to use drugs anyhow although it is clearly best if one can exercise moderation.

I have the same thoughts on ORT, its not to say that codeine addiction is harmless but it seems backwards to me to view more addictive opioids as the answer.

To me, and it may well seem different to you who is in the position I am talking about, it seems like there aren't many drawbacks to codeine addiction. I mean of course it isn't good financially but assuming you were downing a couple 30 packets a day its not going to cost any more than a pack a day smokers habit, a lot less than most addictions to recreational drugs generally cost. Also, there aren't very many bad effects on the body and mind, I am not suggesting there are none but when contrasted with most other intoxicants they are minimal. Finally there is the issue of quality control, you always know what you are getting and whilst there is some uncertainty as the the exact dose one is taking no codeine addict is ever going to OD themselves anyway. Some may argue there is a chance you may be consuming more para/ibu than you think, but as it stands that is speculation. Even if it were true it couldn't be any worse than the impurities in illicit drugs.

Please don't interpret this as me belittling codeine addiction mate, I am not calling it any less legitimite than any other addiction, it just has advantages over many others. In my mind an addiction to buperenorphine or methadone isn't neccessarily better than an addiction to codeine and I am merely questioning the benefit to the majority of encouraging ORT.
 
I found out today I can get access to a packet of naltrexone, so I may do some investigating on the link posted by nabollocks and give it a whirl. Definately going to read my ass off before I decide though.

Great news, there was also a guy over in OD that was experimenting on himself recently with naltrexone. Seems it works wonders for people with codeine tollerance, and also works for stronger opiates, but not to the same extent. Keep us updated.

Make sure you have a good titration method before commencing your dosing.
 
Yeah, it is only one packet though and not definite. I am having a better read over the link you gave and it seems more common for opiate addicts? I am not addicted to codeine, I have just been poly using ceiling doses of codeine with harder opiates and now am unsatisfied with the feeling codeine is giving me on its own. I am slightly confused like the main article has them dosing naltrexone with codeine, the guy who posted says he has been using naltrexone to reduce tolerance but doesn't mention dosing opiates. Would just using naltrexone reduce tolerance or do you have to do it in conjunction with opioids?
 
Yeah, it is only one packet though and not definite. I am having a better read over the link you gave and it seems more common for opiate addicts? I am not addicted to codeine, I have just been poly using ceiling doses of codeine with harder opiates and now am unsatisfied with the feeling codeine is giving me on its own. I am slightly confused like the main article has them dosing naltrexone with codeine, the guy who posted says he has been using naltrexone to reduce tolerance but doesn't mention dosing opiates. Would just using naltrexone reduce tolerance or do you have to do it in conjunction with opioids?

Well, if you can go without opiates for any length of time then this method probably has very little for you. It is meant for reducing and reversing opiate tolerance in opiate dependent users. It however has also shown some potential to be used to stop tolerance in the first place also.

Check the pack you got, it is most likely 3mg pills or similar. The idea here is that you are using u-grams. (10-6 grams) That is a very small dose, and if this is the case you probably have a life time supply of naltrexone.
 
drug mentor said:
Mr Blonde looking for morphine is a direct result of these bullshit new laws making it more expensive. It is not a result of an escalating addiction I don't think because as far as I am aware he kicked it. I don't think this is a very good example of anything other than why it makes sense to keep codeine as cheap as it was and let people buy as much as they see fit. There is a user on here, I think it is static mind, who is a codeine addict but thanks to codeine addiction will never use harder opiates, if it weren't for codeine there is a good chance he would of tried a harder opiate and who knows where he would be.

I would agree that codeine definately turns people on to harder opiates, but I would equally wager for everyone it turns on to harder opiates there is someone who doesn't need to try heroin or oxy (or atleast would do so much less often) because they are satisfied with codeine.

rolls_ said:
You could write an entire thesis on this debate, point is there is ORT out there if it is determined that it could be beneficial for you.

I agree you should write a thesis about me, I'm a very interesting guy. :D

D_M is right, since it's getting harder for me to get codeine now I'm considering moving onto other opioids, something that I've done before but didn't want to do again. However my case manager guy that I'm seeing for the second time tomorrow I have talked to him about my codeine use and I do want to stop completely, not only do I want to save some money I want to make my girlfriend happy because I love her very much and she is more important to me then getting high.
 
^ What is the world coming to when even the infamous mr blonde is giving away the codeine?! Haha. I am just fucking around, best of luck in your efforts to kick the habit my friend!

It will be tough but I am sure you can manage, from the sound of some of your posts on here you have made it through much tougher stuff!
 
^ Ha ha yeah I've gone from the most over-zealous codeine user you could meet to being on the verge of kicking the habit. :D

I won't give up the cigarettes or the booze or coffee or psychedelics or anything else though, I've never had a problem with those... except the cigarettes and the booze and I guess benzodiazepines.
 
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