16 months on pods - Tapering completely in 4 weeks (log)

[Aloric]

Just uhm,.. May the Force Be With You.
(& excercise does indeed circulate the body's endogenous endorphins/enkephalins if one is able to have the 'Balls' when in Hell).
I've been around and I'll just say, quickly, my experience with this stuff began,"last century."

BTW, thanks 4 pointing out the HUGE variability in potency which exists- from 'batch to batch', even from year-to-year!

I always start W/D with goosflesh, hot flashes, anxiety, diarrh.; but the destination is always Hell...
What makes W/D so DAMN bad (if Cold Turk) is that the X-treme dysphoria is NEVERending- for however many days-ten or so, I don't know. You are not granted even a 30 second 'break' once an hour. Not even two goddam seconds free of Hell! Its truly pitiless!
BUT! I've heard it feels truly' wonderful AFTERWARDS! Like, reeeally good- total freedom!?

However, eh'- isn't sboxone/subutex? supposed to be the Godsend that heroin
and opiate "users" have been waiting for??
What's wrong with an easy bupe' regime of thirty days or whatever- outpatient basis- no W/D, and no more opiates! Right?? Is it the expense?

Anyway, 'Big Balls', bra'.
"..Smells like.. 'Victory'

 

[jake99]

Suboxone is decent but coming off sub isnt easy either.........Im trying to do a slow taper off them , first i have to stay away from other opiates and just on subs , and then slowly lower my sub dose until its so low that i can get off, but it takes a few months

 

[JayJohnson]

Bojangles - sounds like good going so far. Just keep doing it the way you are, just keep cutting away at that dose, let your body do the rest in getting adjusted to the change.

One thing I don't think I mentioned in my post was how unexpected and how great it felt when I got down to about 8g a day. I started noticing positive feelings (as opposed to the negative feelings we expect from WD.) I would start feeling energized, and really enjoying funny shows/movies (realizing I hadn't really laughed in months), and oh yeah: the sex drive comes back! That's a real fun one, daily opiate users don't have a sex drive, don't have sex or masturbate. So that's a fun (and relieving) to have the little soldier come back into service!

Something to look forward to.

I just want to re-iterate, because I think it's important. Grind up all your pods and mix them up. Picking 3 pods today, then 3 tomorrow, you could get a higher dose. Pods are inconsistent, so grinding them all up and mixing them gives the best chance of `normalizing` the doses.

Keep it up, eat fruits and veggies, take a multi-vitamin, vit C, potassium, and calcium - whatever you can get. Exercise, stay positive (I agree, I have to avoid spending too much time on bluelight, too much potential trouble for me.) You know what to do...

 

[QuasiStoned]

The thing with pods is how my body metabolizes opium tea so quickly now. I'll admit back in the day when a dose use to hold me for an easy 36 hours it was somewhat fun, but now its got to the point where if I don't dose twice a day, I'm feeling like pure shit for the second half of everyday I'm on pods.
It has obliterated my sleep cycle, I've put on 30lbs since I started I think just from the amount of sugar I've ingested with the pods. I have no real emotion anymore. I mean I feel and I'm not numb to the world, but I just don't give a shit about things normal people do anymore.

Like:
Going to catch a movie.
Playing golf.
Going to work.
Laughing, joking, playing pranks on people.
Working out.
Calling friends or having social ties
Having sex or a gf (I have basically been asexual since starting pods. No matter how hot a girl I see now I have no urge, no temptation to lust, no NOTHING at all. Can't even recall the last time I wanted to masturbate lol, its SAD)

I've noticed a lot of the same things, especially the fact that my body seems to burn through the tea much quicker (shorter duration). If I take a "get well" dose in the morning by the time night comes I'm already back in withdrawal. I got home from work last night and didn't drink any tea, I could feel the withdrawals just starting. By 11:00 AM I felt horrid and didn't want to get out of bed for the life of me. It seems like to me that the first dip into withdrawal is usually the worst, like after a couple of days of not feeling the withdrawals then dipping into them feels awful. But in the past when I would taper, I would notice positive effects pretty quickly, usually in the form of more energy and actually having the motivation to pick up my guitar or something. I remember the days when the tea used to GIVE me energy, I'd take a dose and would write all kinds of music or just feel like accomplishing something. These days the "high" is just a muddled nod with no real euphoria to speak of.

In the past I've always been stupid and went back to chasing the high after tapering for a few days. Sometimes the high would return, but it was always a battle to keep the positive effects going. My relationship with poppy tea has always been complicated by the fact that I use it for pain relief, but I've been finding other ways to manage my pain and it's not as bad as it used to be.

I want to be in full out withdrawal when I start my "vacation." I do smoke a little pot to sometimes help me sleep as you suggested, but I'll be using a benzo which will help to induce sleep too. I just hope that after those 4 days I'm starting to feel better because I'll be returning to work and can't be all benzo'd out, lol. I'm hoping that by tapering beforehand, I can shave some of the duration off the long withdrawals.

 

[Bojangles69]

Bojangles - sounds like good going so far. Just keep doing it the way you are, just keep cutting away at that dose, let your body do the rest in getting adjusted to the change.

One thing I don't think I mentioned in my post was how unexpected and how great it felt when I got down to about 8g a day. I started noticing positive feelings (as opposed to the negative feelings we expect from WD.) I would start feeling energized, and really enjoying funny shows/movies (realizing I hadn't really laughed in months), and oh yeah: the sex drive comes back! That's a real fun one, daily opiate users don't have a sex drive, don't have sex or masturbate. So that's a fun (and relieving) to have the little soldier come back into service!

Something to look forward to.

I just want to re-iterate, because I think it's important. Grind up all your pods and mix them up. Picking 3 pods today, then 3 tomorrow, you could get a higher dose. Pods are inconsistent, so grinding them all up and mixing them gives the best chance of `normalizing` the doses.

Keep it up, eat fruits and veggies, take a multi-vitamin, vit C, potassium, and calcium - whatever you can get. Exercise, stay positive (I agree, I have to avoid spending too much time on bluelight, too much potential trouble for me.) You know what to do...

Ahh the good ol sexdrive lol.
I still haven't felt any form of horniness yet but hopefully as I get lower I'll feel something coming back. And lmao @ "little soldier" I've been known to use the same exact name for mine haha.

I DID finally grind up all the pods today then shake and bag them. I did 28gms today, tommorow is 25.5, then 23, then 21.5, and it decreases about that amount all the way down to 3 gms. Looks like another 10 days before I get down to 3gms. I have 100gms left over for "emergency", (any left over will go straight down the toilet) I know you said to stay at a dose for like 2 days, but I figured a couple of gms everyday really should go fine. Its such a miniscule amount.

I have to go back and read through your thread though. I'm curious what happened when you finally jumped off the pods for good. Were you hit with any wds at that point I think thats when you took a couple of subs but I mean after the subs were done did you feel in the clear? Did things get worse at all?

Because so far I feel like I'll have no problem riding this taper to the end, but Im a bit nervous honestly about what to expect when I jump off. I'll be doing the same exact sub doses you did too but how did you feel overall after the sub?

& I've said this before but I can't thank you enough for everything bro, I would have been so much weaker minded coming into this had it not been for your original log and sometimes I still can't believe I've made it this far (even though I have a nice ways to go still). ttyl!

-Bo

 

[Bojangles69]

Just uhm,.. May the Force Be With You.
(& excercise does indeed circulate the body's endogenous endorphins/enkephalins if one is able to have the 'Balls' when in Hell).
I've been around and I'll just say, quickly, my experience with this stuff began,"last century."

BTW, thanks 4 pointing out the HUGE variability in potency which exists- from 'batch to batch', even from year-to-year!

I always start W/D with goosflesh, hot flashes, anxiety, diarrh.; but the destination is always Hell...
What makes W/D so DAMN bad (if Cold Turk) is that the X-treme dysphoria is NEVERending- for however many days-ten or so, I don't know. You are not granted even a 30 second 'break' once an hour. Not even two goddam seconds free of Hell! Its truly pitiless!
BUT! I've heard it feels truly' wonderful AFTERWARDS! Like, reeeally good- total freedom!?

However, eh'- isn't sboxone/subutex? supposed to be the Godsend that heroin
and opiate "users" have been waiting for??
What's wrong with an easy bupe' regime of thirty days or whatever- outpatient basis- no W/D, and no more opiates! Right?? Is it the expense?

Anyway, 'Big Balls', bra'.
"..Smells like.. 'Victory'

Hey Aloric thank you so much for your kind words.

About the 30 day sub thing I think if I took sub for 30 days no matter what that would develop a physical dependency & I'm trying to avoid that.

I originally (months ago) was going to jump straight from 80gms pods a day to a moderate dose of subs but decided not to as jake and other people seem to be having too much trouble getting off sub for good. So I'm literally just gonna be taking the subs for a few days right when I jump off the pods.

And thanks for the 'big balls" compliment lol. The first time I ever tried kicking I tried to kill myself (wound up in a ward for 2 weeks) and THATS what has actually given me the balls I have now. I did a complete 180 realizing that happened to me just because i bugged myself out. I was pessimistic, I was nervous, I was apprehensive, and it made getting off pods impossible. So I vowed to kick pods ass this time, and so far it has really helped me stay in control.

take care! - Bo

 

[Bojangles69]

Yeh we are definitely identical. Same exact story with me.

Remember when you first took pods? If I took them the night before the ENTIRE next day I'd have a warm, euphoric opiate glow. And my pupils would stay pinned for an easy 36 hours.

Now it has changed so drastically it doesn't even seem like I'm taking the same drug anymore. Pods use to make me feel like superman, now all I ever wanna do is sleep it seems. I spend 50% of my life in the early stages of withdrawal, and I'm not even sure why I've decided to use as long as I have. I mean they were *maybe enjoyable for the first couple months... but the 14 months after that I basically just flushed money down the toilet to keep from getting sick.

I can't tell you enough Quasi but DON'T BE NERVOUS. Don't bug yourself out like I use to. Its not even a page in the book of life, how long it takes you to get past the wds. You're doing your taper a lot quicker than mine, and trying to allocate wds for a specific time period, but I still think you'll be fine. Just except for those 4 days really. It sounds about right to me, but I think I honestly would have just given myself a whole week off work. If worse comes to worse and you still don't feel good, just call work and tell them your sick.

DO NOT go in to work if you're still sick unless you think you'll use your job, its not worth it imo. And I had something else I wanted to tell you but I'll send it as a pm....

I've noticed a lot of the same things, especially the fact that my body seems to burn through the tea much quicker (shorter duration). If I take a "get well" dose in the morning by the time night comes I'm already back in withdrawal. I got home from work last night and didn't drink any tea, I could feel the withdrawals just starting. By 11:00 AM I felt horrid and didn't want to get out of bed for the life of me. It seems like to me that the first dip into withdrawal is usually the worst, like after a couple of days of not feeling the withdrawals then dipping into them feels awful. But in the past when I would taper, I would notice positive effects pretty quickly, usually in the form of more energy and actually having the motivation to pick up my guitar or something. I remember the days when the tea used to GIVE me energy, I'd take a dose and would write all kinds of music or just feel like accomplishing something. These days the "high" is just a muddled nod with no real euphoria to speak of.

In the past I've always been stupid and went back to chasing the high after tapering for a few days. Sometimes the high would return, but it was always a battle to keep the positive effects going. My relationship with poppy tea has always been complicated by the fact that I use it for pain relief, but I've been finding other ways to manage my pain and it's not as bad as it used to be.

I want to be in full out withdrawal when I start my "vacation." I do smoke a little pot to sometimes help me sleep as you suggested, but I'll be using a benzo which will help to induce sleep too. I just hope that after those 4 days I'm starting to feel better because I'll be returning to work and can't be all benzo'd out, lol. I'm hoping that by tapering beforehand, I can shave some of the duration off the long withdrawals.

 

[JayJohnson]

Looking back I don't know if I should have even taken the sub at all. But I did. I really hope your taper down works as well for you as it did for me. I was feeling excellent, but I took the sub after a couple days and that ended up lasting 10 days where I use the sub, and honestly today is the first day with no sub. Did .25mg yesterday. If you do take the sub, don't take it for too long, and make sure you taper down fast.

I had a birthday party to go to on Sun, and took more sub than I should have, you know the reasons we give ourselves. Then two days at .25mg. Today I'm feeling slight withdrawal. Heat flashes, not much appetite (weird considering I'm smoking bowls), minor headache through the day, prone to getting the blues but not debilitating.

Bo, you took that last step in withdrawal before that I didn't. I know I thought about bleeding myself out for 4-5 days - that's when I knew I had to get HELP. Just couldn't leave a corpse for my girlfriend at the time, or my family. Already had a suicide to alcoholism a few years ago.

So, yeah, knowing what pod withdrawal REALLY does to us personally gives some added reason to taper successfully, no? Good motivation - WD is hell.

So I feel about 50:50 ok:ass - but I'm off the sub, 2nd day no booze, going to try and kick the pot last. I'm total `poly-substance abuser`, when I use, I use EVERYTHING. Hehe... again, ain't it glamorous being an addict. The light at the end of the tunnel is I'm looking forward to getting off everything, hitting the gym for my high, and living a normal life. See you there...

 

[Bojangles69]

LOG DAY 6

Ok so as far as today it actually went GREAT! I'm trying to figure out why I've been rather manic lately, when I was expecting to be all depressed and lethargic.

This was the first morning I woke up without hot flashes so that was cool. I took my 28gm dose and afterwards my mood elevated a lot. I didn't feel physically high at all, but its like it went straight to my brain and I just got extremely happy.

So I go to work out and as I'm lifting I notice I have this incredible surge of energy like I haven't felt in years. I can't even explain what it felt like but I was like a rabit going from the weights to the punching bag, to doing situps, then back to weights. I wasn't resting at all inbetween sets and I felt like I could go for hours. Was really the best workout I've had in a looong time and it makes no sense either. After an hour of weights I ran 3 miles & then I finally started burning out.

I really just can't get over the fact that I I feel better now tapering, then when I use to take as many pods as I wanted. I'm realizing NOW that when you take huge doses like that its makes the preliminary wds so much worse. And because I was in preliminary wds half of every waking day I guess thats why I always felt so shitty.

All my doses were bagged today and labeled by weight (I aimed to drop around 2.5gms a day roughly). And I have 10 days to go till I'm down to 3gms. It looks like I'll actually be off around June 1st and like I can jump off to the subs at that point. Then I'll have till June 16th to stablize for my vacation. I just hope my energy levels don't drop at any point because I'm also trying to lose 20bs before my vacation, I'm already down 3 with all the running I've been doing lately.

So far everything is going better than I could have ever wished for. The end of tommorow marks a whole week, things are actually getting better the lower I get (when I thought things would get worse the lower I got), and I still feel invincible. These pods didn't stand a chance from day 1, and I sincerely thank everyone who has been helping me through this. This will also be the FIRST time I've ever took myself off an opiate and what its doing for my confidence is incredible. I can't wait just to get off this shit and conquer the world now. =]

lets not get to ahead of ourselves lol


nite all! - Bo

 

[Bojangles69]

Looking back I don't know if I should have even taken the sub at all. But I did. I really hope your taper down works as well for you as it did for me. I was feeling excellent, but I took the sub after a couple days and that ended up lasting 10 days where I use the sub, and honestly today is the first day with no sub. Did .25mg yesterday. If you do take the sub, don't take it for too long, and make sure you taper down fast.

I had a birthday party to go to on Sun, and took more sub than I should have, you know the reasons we give ourselves. Then two days at .25mg. Today I'm feeling slight withdrawal. Heat flashes, not much appetite (weird considering I'm smoking bowls), minor headache through the day, prone to getting the blues but not debilitating.

Bo, you took that last step in withdrawal before that I didn't. I know I thought about bleeding myself out for 4-5 days - that's when I knew I had to get HELP. Just couldn't leave a corpse for my girlfriend at the time, or my family. Already had a suicide to alcoholism a few years ago.

So, yeah, knowing what pod withdrawal REALLY does to us personally gives some added reason to taper successfully, no? Good motivation - WD is hell.

So I feel about 50:50 ok:ass - but I'm off the sub, 2nd day no booze, going to try and kick the pot last. I'm total `poly-substance abuser`, when I use, I use EVERYTHING. Hehe... again, ain't it glamorous being an addict. The light at the end of the tunnel is I'm looking forward to getting off everything, hitting the gym for my high, and living a normal life. See you there...

Wow gzz. I'm really contemplating those subs now. Instead of jumping off 3gms of pods I may seriously just take it down to 1/4 gram then just jump off completely w/out sub. I didn't realize you were still taking the sub. Or maybe I'll just start my sub dose at 1mg and drop it in 4 days to .25 then jump off. Its obviously gonna depend on how I feel but I almost feel like I can jump off now lol.

Damn man it sounds like you're doing rougher than I had hoped. I thought you be closer to like 80ok/20ass. Theres got to be a smooth way to jump off the pods. Someone had pm'd me on another board saying he jumped off at 8gms (which also happened to be your feel good transition) cold turkey and claimed to feel better when he jumped off. Like he didn't even experience a shred of wds.

And yeh that suicide thing can actually become HUGE motivator later in life lol, I'm sure if that didn't happen I'd be having a lot more trouble with this taper. Well shit, I'm not gonna start bugging myself out now about the jump off. I may not even take the subs I'm just gonna stop when I get low enough, give it 3 days and if its unbearable THEN I'll take one. I guess thats the only way I'll really know for sure. Alright bro I'll talk to you later!

-Bo

 

[Whattodo]

Hi Bojangles,

I just registered here as I followed the link you posted in The Kratom Forum (TKF). I'm a newbie at that site, and to Kratom in general...I just received a pretty big order (about 700 g) of Kratom (various strains), as my girlfriend and want to get off an insanely expensive oxycontin addiction...

First off, the reason I'm posting on your thread is because I totally agree that the last thing you (and me) need at this time is pessimism in regards to what you're up against...Based on your posts, it seems to me that you're really doing this and that you're gonna succeed as well! Although I have to say that the folks at TKF have been very supportive, with very little pessimism sent my way since joining a couple weeks ago....

Has your K supply arrived yet? I'm very interested in hearing how you will transition from doing your pods in the am, and burning k at night...May be the route I have to take, as I need to be able to function in the office setting where I work...

I'm going to be honest here, I'm both scared shitless, and am having a hard time tapering off the f****** O's. I'm currently doing between 40 and 120 mg/day. Been doing this for about nine months now. Started sniffing them at first, but in the last two months, started smoking the damned things....

 

[Bojangles69]

Hey whattodo,

I have to say I hold no anger at all towards TKF as I use to be an active member there years ago and I agree you will find some of the most sympathetic, kind hearted people on that site.
Its just that when people think they're "preparing" you, by mentioning every negative thing that can possibly happen, they are actually conditioning you to expect a bunch of bs that very well may have never happened if they didn't say it.

I'm not blaming TKF at all for anything. But I just find it interesting that the first time I posted there (when I was originally trying to kick years ago) I wound up trying to kill myself because I was overwhelmed with the idea that getting off an opiate HAS TO BE hell for EVERYONE.

I am proving pessimistists wrong with this log. This entire taper hasn't been some trip to paradise, I've defintely had a couple bad days so far, but for the most part I've been extremely happy and energetic since I started. Even half way through this thread I said I was gonna stop reading other peoples logs because it was a lot of bs negativity that simply wasn't true.

There is NO REASON you're taper NEEDS to be difficult. I wasn't strong months before coming into this. It was a few days right before I started I told myself "fuck THIS, I'm forgetting everything I've ever heard about getting off opiates, and Im DESTROYING my addiction". All that bs you hear from dr's or counselors like "a drug addict can't get clean by themselves" is based on MONEY. Of course they want drug addicts to think they're weaker than they actually are, because then the drug addicts pay them for help.
I think that mentality just rubs off onto us, and then we tell our fellow drug addicts the same kind of shit, not realizing that getting off drugs can actually be a very simple thing to do.

What I want you to realize is this - you can not have a single thought the entire time you are tapering and still succeed. Because thinking isn't as critical as we think to reach success. Logically speaking, all you need to do is control with your HANDS the amount of drugs that enter your mouth everyday. It doesn't take intellect, it doesn't take confidence or self esteem, all it fucking takes is YOUR HANDS and YOUR MOUTH.

My kratom did come today. I took about 10gms 2 hours ago and it stopped the hot flashes and goosebumps completely, + elevate my body temp a bit it seems. But this is the first day I've taken it too. I kinda feel like I don't even need it so I may skip around with dosing it.
Remember, you DO NOT have to be a superhero, a rocket scientist, or ANYTHING special to get off opiates. All you have to do is DO IT. Once you do it, its done lol, it just is that simple. But don't be afraid. If you're afraid now you need to reframe your fears in your head as they surface.
Ask yourself,
What am I scared of?

If I don't wanna stay clean I'll just get high again.
If its too difficult to do I'll stop.
If I'm tapering too quick I'll just slow down.
If I jump off and get hit with anything I'll go back on and taper lower.

You see when you have answers to your fears, even answers like "I'll just get high again", that REMOVES the fear, which removes the need to even wanna get high in the first place. You have to realize theres a solution and an answer for ALL of your fears. Go over the answers in your head. I came into this saying "if its too much I'll just stop" and its NOT too much BECAUSE I KNOW I can just stop anytime I want. Even though I know I can stop the taper right now I honestly don't want to because I feel pretty damn good, and I don't even think my opiate could replicate how I'm feeling right now.

Thats basically how my thought process has been. And I hope it can help you out in someway. Remember, we are ALL here anytime you need anything, so don't hesitate to ask. Keep me posted as things come along. If you keep pushing your taper back and its pissing you off come to me, I'll give you some ideas of how to get your first foot ahead of the other. We're all here for each other, all we really want for ourselves is to be happy. Its not something you have to kill for, you just need to slowly make the right decisions everyday and you'll find happiness.

G/luck & take care! - Bo

Hi Bojangles,

I just registered here as I followed the link you posted in The Kratom Forum (TKF). I'm a newbie at that site, and to Kratom in general...I just received a pretty big order (about 700 g) of Kratom (various strains), as my girlfriend and want to get off an insanely expensive oxycontin addiction...

First off, the reason I'm posting on your thread is because I totally agree that the last thing you (and me) need at this time is pessimism in regards to what you're up against...Based on your posts, it seems to me that you're really doing this and that you're gonna succeed as well! Although I have to say that the folks at TKF have been very supportive, with very little pessimism sent my way since joining a couple weeks ago....

Has your K supply arrived yet? I'm very interested in hearing how you will transition from doing your pods in the am, and burning k at night...May be the route I have to take, as I need to be able to function in the office setting where I work...

I'm going to be honest here, I'm both scared shitless, and am having a hard time tapering off the f****** O's. I'm currently doing between 40 and 120 mg/day. Been doing this for about nine months now. Started sniffing them at first, but in the last two months, started smoking the damned things....

 

[QuasiStoned]

Yeh we are definitely identical. Same exact story with me.

Remember when you first took pods? If I took them the night before the ENTIRE next day I'd have a warm, euphoric opiate glow. And my pupils would stay pinned for an easy 36 hours.

Now it has changed so drastically it doesn't even seem like I'm taking the same drug anymore. Pods use to make me feel like superman, now all I ever wanna do is sleep it seems. I spend 50% of my life in the early stages of withdrawal, and I'm not even sure why I've decided to use as long as I have. I mean they were *maybe enjoyable for the first couple months... but the 14 months after that I basically just flushed money down the toilet to keep from getting sick.

I can't tell you enough Quasi but DON'T BE NERVOUS. Don't bug yourself out like I use to. Its not even a page in the book of life, how long it takes you to get past the wds. You're doing your taper a lot quicker than mine, and trying to allocate wds for a specific time period, but I still think you'll be fine. Just except for those 4 days really. It sounds about right to me, but I think I honestly would have just given myself a whole week off work. If worse comes to worse and you still don't feel good, just call work and tell them your sick.

DO NOT go in to work if you're still sick unless you think you'll use your job, its not worth it imo. And I had something else I wanted to tell you but I'll send it as a pm....

Of course I remember how it was in the beginning, dosing at night and waking up the next day still high as a kite. It seemed too good to be true, lol. I guess as it turned out it was

I'm at a point right now where about 3 pods hold off the withdrawals for maybe 8 to 12 hours, so I tend to dose twice per day and still experience some withdrawal. I made a brew using only 6 pods (and some of them were pretty small) tonight and drank about half. Somehow my habit never really grew too large, I don't know exactly how much I was using but I can say that I never made it up to 1 cup of grounds. It was probably about 2/3 of a cup that I was using.

I started running into issues with getting high after about a month of regular use and then it was a constant battle to keep my tolerance down. I would basically spend a lot of time in WD on purpose just so I could catch a buzz later. Towards the end though I had stopped managing my tolerance so well and was basically trying to get high more frequently with higher doses.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that your taper is going so well and that you are doing this with such ease. It's interesting that we're both coming off along the same timeline but my taper is shorter, I'll have about 10 days to taper if I can keep myself from cheating. I really have no fear of the withdrawals that will come when I drop off - the benzo is such a godsend. I even have 3 lyrica pills which GREATLY potentiate benzos so most of my withdrawal will just be spent chilling out. I might even feel sort of good

 

[unsettled]

Just wanted to say keep up the good work B69, sounds like you're doing really well. I really agree with you about staying away from all those posts with all those horror stories. I think the pain of withdrawal can be minimized if you are prepared, have a plan. I think you have a really great attitude about all this and this attitude will serve you well applied to anything in life, it is the attitude of a successful person.

As I said before in this thread I too use pods daily, my dose is usually around 4 pods per day, I've been up to the dose you were at before but I always settled around where I am now because I'm not chasing the high anymore just using them for their mood stabilizing effects. I think the hardest part is when you get down to that last quarter of a pod and then go to nothing, although I'm sure you will have no problem.

The scariest thing about pods to me is that I can still get high as hell off them when I double my dose, like nothing else in the world is of any importance high, I did this the other day and it was almost scary, only because I realize how easy it is to slip. I was completely euphoric relaxed and nodding a little bit and really enjoying myself. Extremely euphoric opiate high. But I don't want to "sleep" through my whole life. I also realize that chasing this high daily doesn't work, been there done that.

Anyway, keep up the good work! Inevitably I'll wanna get off of these again and I'll revisit this thread when that times again. Though I'm leaning towards just going to a sub doc, cause I always come back to opiates, have been for years. It's so much more convenient to just have a script especially when you have to travel a lot.

 

[Whattodo]

Hey whattodo,

I have to say I hold no anger at all towards TKF as I use to be an active member there years ago and I agree you will find some of the most sympathetic, kind hearted people on that site.
Its just that when people think they're "preparing" you, by mentioning every negative thing that can possibly happen, they are actually conditioning you to expect a bunch of bs that very well may have never happened if they didn't say it.

I'm not blaming TKF at all for anything. But I just find it interesting that the first time I posted there (when I was originally trying to kick years ago) I wound up trying to kill myself because I was overwhelmed with the idea that getting off an opiate HAS TO BE hell for EVERYONE.

I am proving pessimistists wrong with this log. This entire taper hasn't been some trip to paradise, I've defintely had a couple bad days so far, but for the most part I've been extremely happy and energetic since I started. Even half way through this thread I said I was gonna stop reading other peoples logs because it was a lot of bs negativity that simply wasn't true.

There is NO REASON you're taper NEEDS to be difficult. I wasn't strong months before coming into this. It was a few days right before I started I told myself "fuck THIS, I'm forgetting everything I've ever heard about getting off opiates, and Im DESTROYING my addiction". All that bs you hear from dr's or counselors like "a drug addict can't get clean by themselves" is based on MONEY. Of course they want drug addicts to think they're weaker than they actually are, because then the drug addicts pay them for help.
I think that mentality just rubs off onto us, and then we tell our fellow drug addicts the same kind of shit, not realizing that getting off drugs can actually be a very simple thing to do.

What I want you to realize is this - you can not have a single thought the entire time you are tapering and still succeed. Because thinking isn't as critical as we think to reach success. Logically speaking, all you need to do is control with your HANDS the amount of drugs that enter your mouth everyday. It doesn't take intellect, it doesn't take confidence or self esteem, all it fucking takes is YOUR HANDS and YOUR MOUTH.

My kratom did come today. I took about 10gms 2 hours ago and it stopped the hot flashes and goosebumps completely, + elevate my body temp a bit it seems. But this is the first day I've taken it too. I kinda feel like I don't even need it so I may skip around with dosing it.
Remember, you DO NOT have to be a superhero, a rocket scientist, or ANYTHING special to get off opiates. All you have to do is DO IT. Once you do it, its done lol, it just is that simple. But don't be afraid. If you're afraid now you need to reframe your fears in your head as they surface.
Ask yourself,
What am I scared of?

If I don't wanna stay clean I'll just get high again.
If its too difficult to do I'll stop.
If I'm tapering too quick I'll just slow down.
If I jump off and get hit with anything I'll go back on and taper lower.

You see when you have answers to your fears, even answers like "I'll just get high again", that REMOVES the fear, which removes the need to even wanna get high in the first place. You have to realize theres a solution and an answer for ALL of your fears. Go over the answers in your head. I came into this saying "if its too much I'll just stop" and its NOT too much BECAUSE I KNOW I can just stop anytime I want. Even though I know I can stop the taper right now I honestly don't want to because I feel pretty damn good, and I don't even think my opiate could replicate how I'm feeling right now.

Thats basically how my thought process has been. And I hope it can help you out in someway. Remember, we are ALL here anytime you need anything, so don't hesitate to ask. Keep me posted as things come along. If you keep pushing your taper back and its pissing you off come to me, I'll give you some ideas of how to get your first foot ahead of the other. We're all here for each other, all we really want for ourselves is to be happy. Its not something you have to kill for, you just need to slowly make the right decisions everyday and you'll find happiness.

G/luck & take care! - Bo

Thanks Bo! I appreciate your candor and the great advice, too...

 

[JayJohnson]

Wow gzz. I'm really contemplating those subs now. Instead of jumping off 3gms of pods I may seriously just take it down to 1/4 gram then just jump off completely w/out sub. I didn't realize you were still taking the sub. Or maybe I'll just start my sub dose at 1mg and drop it in 4 days to .25 then jump off. Its obviously gonna depend on how I feel but I almost feel like I can jump off now lol.

Damn man it sounds like you're doing rougher than I had hoped. I thought you be closer to like 80ok/20ass. Theres got to be a smooth way to jump off the pods. Someone had pm'd me on another board saying he jumped off at 8gms (which also happened to be your feel good transition) cold turkey and claimed to feel better when he jumped off. Like he didn't even experience a shred of wds.

And yeh that suicide thing can actually become HUGE motivator later in life lol, I'm sure if that didn't happen I'd be having a lot more trouble with this taper. Well shit, I'm not gonna start bugging myself out now about the jump off. I may not even take the subs I'm just gonna stop when I get low enough, give it 3 days and if its unbearable THEN I'll take one. I guess thats the only way I'll really know for sure. Alright bro I'll talk to you later!

-Bo

I would suggest tapering the pods down until you are doing such a tiny amount you don't think it's doing anything for you. Drop off - and hold off on the subs. For me, I think I would have been best off not using the sub. But, I did. And it felt good, and I used it longer than I should have. So, if you can learn from my mistake, more power to you.

Last night was a pain sleeping. I'm on remeron (anti-depressant that helps regulate norepinephrine) so I take it at night and it helps me sleep. Last night, I was sleepy, and even took some melatonin - but I had the restless-leg, and restless-arm going on. Took a while to get to sleep, then I woke up a couple times after 1.5 to 2 hours. Finally, I slept through for 4 hours. Not horrible, not great.

Today I took just under .25mg sub - I figure I have it, and I might as well use the little bit left to keep tapering down. I have a feeling I'm going to have some WD, but I'm going to skip tomorrow, maybe use .25mg or less... and go from there.

I think the problem with tapering sub, is that its so active, and the amounts are so tiny - it's really hard to accurately taper down that shit.

 

[jake99]

I get a million diff opinions on Suboxone from everyone. . Some say stay on it , some say kick cold turkey , But the real issue is that it is so expensive to stay on it ..............and to stay on a high dose.................

 

[Carl Landrover]

I think the problem with tapering sub, is that its so active, and the amounts are so tiny - it's really hard to accurately taper down that shit.

Definitely.

It's a lot harder to taper down if you have the 8mg pills vs the 2mg. Even with the 2mg pills it's a bit of guesswork when you get to doses around .25mg.

I've gotten off of it a few times now, but never have been able to abstain from opiates for too long after that. Got to try to get off of it again. Something you definitely have to be mentally and physically ready for. It's not impossible, it's just taxing. It's exciting if you were are ready to get off though. To finally not be bound by the opiate handcuffs anymore.

 

[Bojangles69]

Go to home depot or even a supermarket. Get something that measures mililiters. Measure out 8ml of tap water and throw a sub in it. Shake till it all dissolves. Walah you have 1mg sub per 1ml water. You could prob realistically even double the amount of water, and it would be easier to measure smaller doses. Just do the math.

If you want 1/10mg aka .1mg sub measure out .1ml of water in an eye dropper. Its very easy if you just go find the stuff. Even petsmart has ml measuring droppers. Get a ph tube to mix and store it while you're there, or any petstore. I already got the stuff but I'm not planning on taking the sub at all depending on the jumpoff.

DAY 7

We'll keep this short.

1 WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol. Down to 25gms. Worked out again, no running my calves are sore. Today wasn't a particularly "great" day, nothing like yesterday. Not any wds, just bored I guess. Need to get into some kind of routine.
I'm feeling pretty confident about the idea of doing a clean taper. I mean doing just the pods and no assistance when I jump off. I'm starting to really think subs and kratom may delay wds. I'm not sure why but I'm trying to not take the kratom even a little bit. Will be back tommorow guys thanks for everything!

Nite - Bo

 

[Carl Landrover]

Suboxone is a great replacement drug as it can help you lead a much more 'normal' life, but that's because a lot of people were spending tons on oxy or dope or were going out to crappy areas and copping all the time, stuff like that.

It's also much easier to taper down on suboxone than it is when you've got a pill or heroin habit. However, if you're capable of tapering down solely on pods, going on to suboxone is just going to prolong your use of opioids. Do you have any experience with it at all? If you did use it, I would dose LOW, and try to not dose daily. It's kind of weird from when you go from dosing daily or multiple times a day to suddenly thinking you're not going to dose at all again. Working on skipping days and prolonging the time between dosing is something to consider when you get to low doses and are close to getting off them.