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LSA extraction and safety.

shulginist

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
152
Okay, is there any danger to HBWR/LSA use? I've heard rumors of ergotism and other sicknesses? Is there any validity to such claims? Even for frequent use?


And... is the following tek viable?

Lysergic Acid Amide Extraction
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A Method for the Extraction and Usage of LSA from Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds or Morning Glory Seeds (15 medium doses)
by Dave Mennenoh
HBWR: To dose, you don't have to remove all the shell, but just take a pocket knife and scrape all the "dark-brown" stuff off until the seed is completely a "creme" color.
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Items you will need:

- 128 HBWR seeds (No hulls); seeds only. Or 3,500 MG seeds.

- A 50ml liquor bottle. These are the small 'airplane'-sized ones. It should state 50ml on it.
- A quantity of non-polar solvent. Coleman's White gas is perfect.
- 190 proof Everclear, or Vodka. Ethanol. (Bacardi 151)
- A small funnel comes in handy.
- A couple small jars with good lids.
- Some coffee filters.

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Extraction Instructions:

1. Grind the seeds to a powder in a coffee grinder. Place the powder into a small jar and pour in enough of the White gas to fully cover the seeds. You can't really use too much, but leave enough room so it shakes well. Screw on the lid and shake well for a few minutes. Let it sit for an hour or so, shaking every so often. Shaking is good.

2. Pour the seed / solvent solution through a coffee filter and let it drain. Putting the coffee filter into a funnel first works well. The solvent is no longer needed but can be re-used, so save it. Spread out the seed mush on the coffee filter which it is in, on a plate or something, and let the seeds fully dry out. You should smell no solvent when it's fully evaporated. It may take a couple of hours. Don't breathe the solvent fumes, if you can help it.

3. Once the seeds are fully dried place the powder into a clean small jar, with a good tight fitting lid. Fill the 50ml liquor bottle with your Ethanol (this is to measure it) and then dump that amount into the small jar with the seed powder. Shake well. This should sit for 3 days and shake it whenever you think of it.

4. Okay 3 days have passed, it's almost time. Again, stick a coffee filter in a funnel and then pour the Ethanol / Seed solution into the filter. Let it drain thoroughly. Once it's close you can squeeze out excess alcohol, but be careful not to break the filter. You can now discard the seeds, as the good stuff is in the alcohol solution that's left.
5. Now pour the solution into the 50ml liquor bottle and let it sit for a couple of hours. Any seed powder remaining in the solution will settle to the bottom. Once it has, pour off the alcohol, rinse the seed crap out of the bottle, and pour the alcohol solution back in. Add enough of the clean alcohol to fill the bottle and you're done.

6. You now have 50ml of drinkable alcohol containing the extract from 150 HBWR seeds, which should be a yellowish, clear liquid, that looks much like tequila.

7. Normal dosage of HBWR is 5-12 seeds, MG about 200-400 seeds and it's easy to measure. You can either get an oral syringe at any drug store that has a 1-5ml gradated gauge on the side, or use measuring spoons. 1tsp=5ml of liquid. 1ml of the 'tincture' = 3 seeds. I've found that 3ml of the liquid works very well. Mix with water, or anything else.

8. This method works very well, is easy to dose, easy to prepare, and you should not experience any nausea. Also, because the LSA's are extracted they take way less longer to start working. Expect to feel the effects within an hour.

9. Keep your little bottle in the fridge. Heat is bad for all tryptamines.

10. Something to note: You can evaporate off the alcohol and you will be left with the alkaloids which you can put into gel caps etc. But, this is harder to dose, etc. I've found the alcohol method very easy and precise.
 
That's only alcohol extraction of the alkaloids.. that wouldn't rid of the nausia, if I'm correct. I believe you need a full-blown acid/base extraction of LSAs to be safe when dosing large.
 
StagnantReaction said:
That's only alcohol extraction of the alkaloids.. that wouldn't rid of the nausia, if I'm correct. I believe you need a full-blown acid/base extraction of LSAs to be safe when dosing large.

No, it's all good. The white gas serves as a non-polar sovlent and carries away the unwanted chemicals.
 
Look elsewhere there should be something on cold water extraction, it works fine, and its what I usually do.

As far as the cheimcal extraction, I did it and messed up due to bad solvants. Let me warn you when using non-polar industrial solvants, evaporate a large amount and make sure there is no residue or tar leftover. Most of the over the counter industrial solvants are impure.

You don't want to end up injesting some unknown residue or tar that would potentially be carcinogenic.

Better yet, go for the cold water extraction, make sure you use distilled water, because the chlorine in your tap would destory the senistive LSA compounds.
 
But there is no risk of ergotism or other bizarre ailments, right

Considering some of the lysergic acid amides found in HBWR etc are very closely related to ergotamine and ergonovine, you can't completely rule it out as the comparative amounts of LSA's change according to the maturity of the seed. Pure lysergic acid amide doesn't have much vasoconstrictor activity, but once you start adding on alkyl or amino acid type groups, the effect becomes more pronounced.

So quick answer - there is a possibility
 
when i do mg's i use my handy dandy magic bullet put about 4 oz. of cold distilled water and put 4 to 600 seeds into the water [caus the blade isnt low enough to grind the seeds proper] and i leave it on for about an hour stiring and grinding the mg then let it soak an hour or 2 then turn it on again for about another 20 minutes just caus im ocd and wanna make sure i get all the lsa extracted then i put a coffee filter in a funnel and drain it into desired container ive never eaten them whole so i dont know how bad the cramps or vometing is that way but i rarely get sick but i also take gas x and promethazine before i injest my sauce because of the risk of sickness and i rarely feel sick from them. ive never done the hbw's but im lookin to go pick some up tomorrow if the floral store got em i think im gonna try the sublingual method first if that doesnt work ill prolly just go back to my mg method. great trip report shulginist
 
So... Is this a viable method for dosing on LSA? I've already tried MG's and I puked, not looking to relive that experience.
 
I would recommend a proper acid base extraction if you want to get a reasonably pure form of the alkaloids. Grind up seeds, acidify, then add nonpolar solvent. Agitate, let sit, agitate more, decant nonpolar layer and discard. Now drop the PH of the aqueous seed-dust suspension to basic conditions, add nonpolar solvent, do the agitate-wait thing again, then decant the nonpolar solvent through filter paper but keep it this time. Now add a second portion of nonpolar solvent to aqueous suspension, do the agitate-wait, again decant nonpolar solvent through filter paper. Evaporate that nonpolar solvent and you have the goods as freebase, or else add water to the nonpolar solvent containing the goods, add acid to drop the PH, agitate-wait, and separate the aqueous solution. Repeat this last step with more water and now the goods are going to be in the water as the ionic compound formed between the goods and whatever acid you used. Evap.

This is a pretty sloppy lazy explanation but it's not like there's not tons and tons of resource about A/B all over google. Unfortunately I tried to hunt down the pka of LSA for you on search but didn't find anything conclusive, which isn't good because pka of wanted compound determines what the ph should be when I mentioned acidic or basic conditions. Pka is the point where the compound is in equilibrium: half as polar soluble salts and half as nonpolar soluble freebase. Generally the ph should be +/- 2 from pka, so for example if pka is 8, then at ph 6 it will be generally speaking mostly (not entirwly but enough for our purposes) in salt form and thus water soluble, at ph 10 the proportion will reverse and it will be almost all freebase. So using a ph of 5.5 for pulling said hypothetical compound into polar solvent and 10.5 for pulling it into nonpolar as freebase will ensure you don't leave behind much goods.

Remember: always use distilled, deionized water, not tap water. And evaporate some of your nonpolar solvent in a Pyrex dish to check for impurities. If it is contaminated residue will remain, if no residue remains then it is safe for A/B work.

I know A/B looks daunting. Trust me, the first time I did an acid base I was young as fuck and it was intimidating. I thought I understood the process, but it still felt too much to wrap my brain around 100%, so I kept a copy of the instructions and referenced them during the process, and was generally speaking successful in my attempt at extraction. Now I have done it enough and have taken enough chem classes to do it sleeping, really it's only the first time that seems hard, and if you can pour liquid from one container to another, you can succeed at an A/B.

It's worth it in the end for the higher quality extract.

Got any questions after you look up a properly detailed A/B extraction, shoot me a PM.
 
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