Heroin different kinds of #4 and tar heroin

[JoshuaV]

Still don't get the difference between #3 and #4 from chemical point of view besides additives (cooffeine, qunnine etc.) Both are salts (hcl), right? What else?

And why glacial acetic acid? It'll ruin the whole thing. It's acetic anhydride, which is always (and only) used. Acetic anhydride doesn't dissolve in water, while glacial acid does. By the way, that "vinegar" smell is the smell of anhydride, and it smells close but not exactly like vinegar.

Wrong: #3 is a base, #4 is a salt. I think that's pretty much the only difference.

 

[Tchort]

Like Rach said, the original meaning of the numbering system was for regional Heroin. In Southeast Asia, Heroin #3 was a 1:1 aka 50/50 mix of Diacetylmorphine Freebase and Caffeine (as Caffiene greatly enhances the volatilization of Heroin and raises the temp. at which Heroin degrades if I'm not mistaken).

When you use the numbering system as a simple generalization outside of the regional context, #3 would simply mean Diamorphine Base.

 

[DBirk]

What I mean is that if in Mexio they really use glacial acetic acid instead of anhydride, then tar is just some sort of opium derivative, and technically shouldn't be called heroin.

By the way, there is a way to make anhydride out of glacial acid, but it's pain in the ass, never did it myself. In fact, even raw opium is injectable, if you dissolve it in water, add a drop of blood, boil it and filter. It's nothing special, but can edge you off for a while, if you don't have chtmicals. For sure it's quite safe and you won't get to hospital.

 

[shruuuuuuuuzzz]

I only have 2 dealers AKA mexicans here in las vegas, 1 dealer is rock black tar, and the other is light brown orange powder...really good.

 

[Tchort]

What I mean is that if in Mexio they really use glacial acetic acid instead of anhydride, then tar is just some sort of opium derivative, and technically shouldn't be called heroin.

By the way, there is a way to make anhydride out of glacial acid, but it's pain in the ass, never did it myself. In fact, even raw opium is injectable, if you dissolve it in water, add a drop of blood, boil it and filter. It's nothing special, but can edge you off for a while, if you don't have chtmicals. For sure it's quite safe and you won't get to hospital.

There is always a philosophical debate about what Heroin actually is. Everyone seems to define it differently.

At any rate, Black Tar Heroin contains Diacetylmorphine Hydrochloride. That it contains more plant matter (tannins, resins, etc that make it 'Tar') and higher levels of side and by products (6-MAM, 3-MAM, Acetylcodeine, etc) doesn't take away that it contains Diamorphine Hcl.

Southeast Asian and SouthWest Asian (Golden Triangle & Golden Crescent) Heroin also contains 6-MAM, 3-MAM, Acetylcodeine, tannins, resins, etc. but in different ratios as a whole.

It is definitely Heroin. If this is about method and staying true to the 'original' illicit manufacturing, then Homebake (Codeine demethylated with pyridine into Morphine then acetylated with acetic anhydride) and Shirka/Kompot (Poppy straw extract treated with solvents and acetic anhydride) aren't Heroin either, despite Diamorphine content.

 

[DoorsofPerception]

When I first started using heroin I lived in Detroit where we got white to tannish rocks/power. It varied greatly from fire to extreme cut shit. Usually was pretty good stuff though.

More recently I moved to Knoxville, TN and the shit I get here is usually an off-white rock/powder. It's pretty consistant and is a little above the average of the Detroit shit but doesn't compare to some of the fire up there.

Now, I have a buddy that lives up in Baltimore that has an amazing connect and gets awesome raw which is a somewhat darkish brown rock/power that kinda resembles brown sugar but darker brown. This is the best dope I've shot in my life. The first time I shot it my buddy warned me to take it slow because I had been shooting the Knox shit that wasn't close to as potent. I shot half a bag of this raw, passed out almost immediatly and woke up about 20 mins later with the spike still in my arm! God, what I would give for an oz of that shit

 

[DBirk]

Homebake (Codeine demethylated with pyridine into Morphine then acetylated with acetic anhydride) and Shirka/Kompot (Poppy straw extract treated with solvents and acetic anhydride)...

Thought that Homebake is just another name for Shirka/Kompot...
What you call Shirka/Kompot or Khanka (raw opium gum treated with anhydride) was a great stuff, for me felt better than H., maybe because more fresh and natural. Really miss that time when it was easily available in my part of the world.

 

[askaboutme]

 

[Carl Landrover]

Is there a difference in the high among #4? Say a different high between SEA heroin and heroin from South America?

 

[mikeb882]

powder over tar anyday. it's just a much cleaner high, and I've always felt weird about shooting tar because.... well it's shooting tar. although you do get more for your money with tar in terms of it keeping you high longer and you have to use less for the most part (I'm in arizona so the shit is good out here, dunno bout other places), powder reigns supreme. and I've gotten most of my powder from good connects in Philly and NY so suffice to say I believe I'd probably had the best of both worlds.

 

[NCUK]

powder by far...... fuck the tar

 

[headcase666]

Tar is disgusting. They even put shoe polish in it to make it darker.

 

[punchednthenose]

I live in Detroit so all we get is powder. Lately our stuff has been cut with methadone... it could just be my dealer i'm sure but it burns like a motherf*cker when i snort it.

 

[Gledwood]

Far as I know (with the exception of that tar stuff I hear Americans talk so much about) there are basically 2 types of heroin on the illicit drugs market #3 (usually brown) heroin base and #4 heroin hydrochloride which in its purest form is white. White heroin base also finds its way onto the market. I am in London and we used to get chalky white heroin fairly often about 2 years ago. Most of it was white base though, not true "China white".
Re the numbering system, this refers to saleable product in the poppies to heroin refining process ie
#1 is opium
#2 morphine base
#3 heroin base
#4 heroin hydrochloride
Heroin base has a lower melting point than the hydrochloride salts and so is easier to smoke. Caffeine is sometimes mixed into heroin base to make it run easier across the foil in the smoking process. To inject "brown" we add a SMALL amount of citric acid or (preferably) vit C. This is neat vitamin C, not crushed up pills or anything stupid. Lemon juice can be used but can contain a fungus that can lead to some horrible infections or even blindness (one piece of junkie lore that is actually true).
Because #3 heroin is a natural step in the refining process, #3 can in theory originate from anywhere in the world. Traditionally the "brown" we get in Europe comes from the Golden Crescent (mainly Afghanistan). #4 is often called China white or Thai white here as in the past the Golden Triangle that has been the most common source region for white heroin hydrochloride in this country. Both names are criticized as misnomers because most of that heroin actually comes from Burma and Laos. Hardly any poppies are now grown in Thailand. The name China white probably refers to the ethnic Chinese gangs who distribute the stuff, plus the Chinese writing that often appears on the wrappers.
More recently white #4 heroin has been intercepted from Afghanistan. Some #4 heroin seized in Europe has originated in Colombia.
That granular Thai stuff Rachamim was talking about sounds like the Chinese heroin that was around in London in the early 1970s, it was granular or lumpy and had names like Elephant, Rice and Three Crowns. This is before my time but I had a late friend who used to deal in the stuff back in the day.
Far as I know it is #3 heroin base that caffeine is added to, as I said, to make it run better. In the Dutch controlled diamorphine prescribing trials addicts could choose between injectable hydrochloride salts or pharmaceutical grade diamorphine base for smoking. This was mixed with caffeine. They chased it off tinfoil under supervision, in a special using room.
Whether or not #4 heroin can be smoked I don't know. We had some extremely strong stuff appear in a drought a couple of years back, it looked like crack ~ kind of crystalline, translucent-ish and very hard. Everyone who smoked it complained bitterly that it would not run. Everybody who injected loved it!

 

[DavidStayzFadedd]

I live in Detroit so all we get is powder. Lately our stuff has been cut with methadone... it could just be my dealer i'm sure but it burns like a motherf*cker when i snort it.

yea methadone burnz like a bitch when snorted. this is weird tho cuz if i take methadone then do heroin i dont feel it as well? plus itz bad to iv methadone ive heard if u do that

 

[TorturedByDeceit]

Didnt really want to bump this old thread, but ive been trying to post and it wont let me so to hell with it. Where im from we get tar on the steady. Being that my city is the second biggest city next to Houston in Texas. And we have 3 major interstates going through the city. Hence it is a major trafficking area. Ive always heard the powder comes through here on its way east. In the 10yrs that ive been using on and off. Ive only encountered what they called china once. When I did it then I only snorted and it made me extremely nauseas. Now just two days ago some real china has came through once again. I recall last time my guy saying he couldnt get rid of the shit. People apparently still preferred the tar. Now im guessing its it's because we are used to it. And for the most part we get really good tar. Being that tar is still an unrefined mix cocktail of opiates mostly consisting of 6MAM. Now when I did this china. I was taking a precaution and did a small amount. But this time I iv'd it. I was amazed at how clean the rush was. I sat there for two minutes being confused trying to put the cap back on my point. But then there it was extreme nausea, it sucked! But yet it didnt, if it wasnt for the damn nausea I felt great! Even after the high wore off I was still nauseas. But I felt great, almost like I did when I used to be on 120mg of methadone. That small tiny amount I did I wasnt sick again until 24hrs later! If it was tar id have to do at least a half and be sick 12 hrs later. Ive been trying to lower my tolerance. I intend on going to the methadone clinic on monday. I have a very good job lined up and I gotta get clean. Well clean as far as methadone maintenance is concerned. But you get my point. Anyways does anyone have a clue as to why this china white dope makes me so damn nauseas? Is it because im so used to tar? Or because the potency is so damn much? I even tried to do less and I still get nauseas. I assume I'm not the only one. Because my guy is having trouble getting rid of it. Yeah it costs more than tar, theres no mistaking that it is of way better quality. Get more bang for your buck, but fuck im tired of feeling like im going to hurl.

 

[tacodude]

Could be cut with fentanyl. China white usually is. The one time I had a good China shot I know was cut with fent left me high all day as well. The fent will raise your tolerance fast and if you stick with China if it's fent cut your tolerance will increase fast and soon what would last a day will barely last hours. Be careful when you hear China white as again that usually means fent cut, which usually leads to ODs as it is never cut evenly and there are hot spot bags that turn out to be 30-100 mg pure fent depending on bad size where ≥1≤ mg will kill even 0.5 mg can easily kill probably 0.1 mg = 100 mcg being the highest weight dosed in a three day sustained released transdermal patch. Just be careful as while unlikely could possibly just be pure dope, but without a lab grade analysis you never know.

 

[ha69]

I have been messing with all kinds of opiates for around 20 years, including heroin. 6 months ago I was stuck in the hospital for 6 weeks with a PIC line in my arm. I had my friends bring me a few types of heroin, morphine and old school oxys that ud could break down. Each day the hospital was GIVING me 6 10mg hydrocodone and 4 2mg DILATA liquid shots spread 4 times throughout the day. I liked the dilata rush even more then I did the heroin, morphine and oxy. Much more. The heroin was tar and I got it from a few different buddies so I know the quality was different, but with my tolerance so high I was probably doing .3 into my pic line just to get a decent nod. And after a few days im sure i increeased it to .5 (i didnt have a scale and I had over a half ounce so wasnt really measuring) The 2mg of dilata in the begining would almost knock me out and I LOOKED FORWARD to the 4 shots of it every day
I've never had #4 dope, i just dont see how 1 point or .01 would get me off even if I shot it. Last week I had quite a few of the old school oxy 80s, I took the time release off one, snorted a different one and waited about 30 mins to see how high I'd be. I ended up having to sniff another 40mg just to get a decent high. Thats over 200mg oxy. The next night I had to take 3 80mg oxy to get same effect, tho I didnt sleep much night before
I take percocet and morphine daily since being in the hospital, and my tolerance has just started going back down since 2 weeks ago with the oxy experience.

I know shooting is WAY more potetent than snorting or anything else, but do you guys think just 1 point of #3 or #4 heroin would be enough to give me a powerful rush? Can you compare it to a strong hydromorphone rush?

 

[Burnt Offerings]

It all just depends...there's ECP that's trash or cut with dangerous opioids and there's tar that'll make even the most hardened junkbox nod into their chest...and there's ECP that's absolute fire & tar that's worse than garbage. *shrug* ECP is definitely preferable to shoot, though.

I'm from the west coast and can definitely attest that there's some damn good tar out there, though.

 

[OntarioGuy]

Ha69 u really? Shot black tar into a PIC line? I had a line once but it was for TPN since I was underweight very anemic and over all sick...