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If MDMA is MDMA, then LSD is LSD, True?

DiZzyBonne

DiZzyBonne

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Joined
Dec 10, 2009
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420
Ok, now I'm a little bit confused. I hear so much going around about good acid, bad acid, and I'm generally getting the understanding from other people that some acid can be stronger than others - at the same dose level. Let me know if I'm right or wrong:

Code: 
acid = acid
LSD = LSD
Lysergic acid diethylamide = Lysergic acid diethylamide
(6a[i]R[/i],9[i]R[/i])- [i]N[/i],[i]N[/i]- diethyl- 7-methyl- 4,6,6a,7,8,9- hexahydroindolo- [4,3-[i]fg[/i]] quinoline- 9-carboxamide = (6a[i]R[/i],9[i]R[/i])- [i]N[/i],[i]N[/i]- diethyl- 7-methyl- 4,6,6a,7,8,9- hexahydroindolo- [4,3-[i]fg[/i]] quinoline- 9-carboxamide
C[SIZE="1"]20[/SIZE]H[SIZE="1"]25[/SIZE]N[SIZE="1"]3[/SIZE]O = C[SIZE="1"]20[/SIZE]H[SIZE="1"]25[/SIZE]N[SIZE="1"]3[/SIZE]O

What I'm getting at is, as long as it has LSD on it, it's acid. Now, it may be diluted with other substances, but as long as it has LSD on it, you're going to trip. In other words, a 100 ug dose is always going to make you trip at a 100 ug level. I know sometimes a trip will be more intense than others at the same dose, but you know what I mean, I'm speaking scientifically.

Think about this, if the chemical formula was off, even by a number, it wouldn't be LSD.

True or false?
 
No, but you see, when acid is manufactured it's not pure. There are other, if minute and barely active, products in the reaction. The most common is iso-LSD, which is an alternate form of the same chemical structure. (One of the atoms is chiral, and the diethylamine group can be "up" or "down".)

Another description, of course, would be how ng/tab. If something has a lot of ng/tab one might call it "good acid", and visa verca.

all of this A = A crap is not doing me any good.
 
Also recall that LSD isn't the only psychoactive compound that can fit onto blotter paper. I had a surprising experience with what I'm almost certain was DOB (based on duration and effects), sold to me as acid on a little square of paper.

There's also the issue of concentration. "Bad" acid may simply be acid that's sufficiently degraded, or wasn't much of a dose to begin with. It's incredibly difficult to assess the amount of LSD on a piece of blotter so it's not surprising that people's assessment of its effects varies.
 
Let's say you buy 1,000 ug of acid from two totally separate sources, both made from different chemists who use different methods to make the LSD, and you receive your substance in a vial. Let's say the vial is made to dose exactly 100 ug of LSD (not including whatever other impurities there may be) per drop. Since both of them are still LSD, and let's assume all the impurities are inactive, will 100 ug of LSD from vial A be the same as 100 ug of LSD from vial B? Remember, both of them SHOULD still be chemically C20H25N3O.

melquiades, I'm not talking about iso-LSD, because that one isn't psychoactive. I'm talking about strictly LSD, chemically speaking, C20H25N3O.
 
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DiZzyBonne said:
Let's say you buy 1,000 ug of acid from two totally separate sources, both made from different chemists who use different methods to make the LSD, and you receive your substance in a vial. Let's say the vial is made to dose exactly 100 ug of LSD (not including whatever other impurities there may be) per drop. Since both of them are still LSD, and let's assume all the impurities are inactive. Will 100 ug of LSD from vial A be the same as 100 ug of LSD from vial B? Remember, both of them SHOULD still be chemically C20H25N3O.
Click to expand...


batch A may have more impurities than batch B.

So if batch A is doesed at 100ug with 10% impurities it is only 90ug.
if batch B is dosed at 100ug but has 20% impurities than it only has 80ug of LSD.

but both are still LSD.

(same logic applies to MDMA)
 
That answers my question, but I guess you read my hypothetical situation wrong (or I worded it poorly.) I meant that the dose was 100 ug of LSD, not including whatever other inactive impurities it may include. In other words, a dose of vial A may be a total of 124 ug, 100 of those ug being LSD, the other 24 ug being the inactive impurities, and a dose of vial B may be a total of 159 ug, 100 of those ug being LSD, the other 59 ug being the inactive impurities.

But now I understand why people say that 100 ug of vial A may not be the same as 100 ug of vial B, because in reality, those 100 ug can be a random variation of LSD and any impurities, meaning you're not really getting 100 ug of LSD, you're getting less (unless you're one lucky sob!)
 
Blotter or drops with high amounts of LSD-25, excluding it's hardly to non-active isomers mentioned, is "good acid" as far as I'm concerned.

Any strong negative body loads are probably from blotter not containing actual LSD, if you want to call DOB, DOB-Dfly , etc "bad acid" then go ahead, but they're not really acid.

I can't imagine that iso-LSD would really dampen or shape an experience for the worse that much, I think some people don't consider set and setting before coming to conclusions.
 
Just on my way out the door, but:

LSD is LSD. "Good acid" and "bad acid" in reality is a matter of purity and dose, and perhaps other active adulterants that are not any kind of "acid" but are their own thing. Manufacturing LSD can result in some impurities, some of which are probably active and may contribute to negative side effects, but you're correct - "acid" is supposed to be LSD. "Good acid" is just pure, high dose LSD. "Bad acid" is low or no dose of LSD with other adulterants, or maybe just a piece of paper. There's no subjective range of quality to the drug itself like there is with, say, cannabis buds. The same can be said for most drugs that are synthesised or 'purified' - it's either the drug it's supposed to be in some dose, or it's something else. Quality is not really a useful metaphor for such things. Whatever molecule(s) you have, they are plenty "good" at being themselves.

There's my ride! /rant ;)
 
Thizzerfershizzer said:
and a horse is a horse of course of course
Click to expand...

i'm so sick of the different kinds of acid myth i hear alot. Ppl will say its a different kind of acid. Unless anything active at low doses that comes in vials or blotters can properly be referred to acid then there is only lsd...

SOmeone i know said there acid hook was getting another kind of acid... not like a different producer but a different type. I warned him the guy was either full of shit or getting some psychedelic amphetamine most likely.:p
 
DiZzyBonne said:
T

But now I understand why people say that 100 ug of vial A may not be the same as 100 ug of vial B, because in reality, those 100 ug can be a random variation of LSD and any impurities, meaning you're not really getting 100 ug of LSD, you're getting less (unless you're one lucky sob!)
Click to expand...

u got it

nopipesdfw said:
Blotter or drops with high amounts of LSD-25, excluding it's hardly to non-active isomers mentioned, is "good acid" as far as I'm concerned.

Any strong negative body loads are probably from blotter not containing actual LSD, if you want to call DOB, DOB-Dfly , etc "bad acid" then go ahead, but they're not really acid.

I can't imagine that iso-LSD would really dampen or shape an experience for the worse that much, I think some people don't consider set and setting before coming to conclusions.
Click to expand...

ive known ppl to take iso-free LSD and report a difference in effects.

This can ofcourse be placebo. But these are well respected pscyhonauts whos names idont feel comfortable revealing without their permission.
 
Delsyd said:
u got it



ive known ppl to take iso-free LSD and report a difference in effects.

This can ofcourse be placebo. But these are well respected pscyhonauts whos names idont feel comfortable revealing without their permission.
Click to expand...

wow i haven't heard of DOB-fly(bromo dragonfly) being passed off as fake acid yet. Thats sketchy becuase som acid head might not know and take like 5 hits and die...
 
solistus said:
LSD is LSD. "Good acid" and "bad acid" in reality is a matter of purity and dose, and perhaps other active adulterants that are not any kind of "acid" but are their own thing...
Click to expand...
Cant good LSD be acid with a higher purity level than LSD that is less pure, which we can call bad acid?
that is my definition. Good acid: high purity, bad acid: low purity
some other compound=not acid


Choronzon333 said:
i'm so sick of the different kinds of acid myth i hear alot. Ppl will say its a different kind of acid. Unless anything active at low doses that comes in vials or blotters can properly be referred to acid then there is only lsd...

SOmeone i know said there acid hook was getting another kind of acid... not like a different producer but a different type. I warned him the guy was either full of shit or getting some psychedelic amphetamine most likely.:p
Click to expand...

hippies have different names for their LSD crystal depending on the manufacturer, purity level, origin, some other stuff, or complete bullshit.

ive heard names like fluff, needlepoint, silver, lavendar, czech, swiss, "blue" something or other, and a bunch of other sales schemes, ignorance and sometimes actual truth.

maybe thats what he meant by it?
 
well yeah, your analogy is like saying an apple is an apple, and an orange is an orange. There are obviously several different types of apples. This is relevant, because lets say MDMA or whatever drug is a red apple, no matter what about breeding or anything. Impurities could be represented in this situation by green apples (or other isomers). Dirty acid, from my understanding of the context of its use, just has impurities from synthesis in it. MDMA is certainly MDMA, and LSD is certainly LSD. The best way i can explain it is this. Lets apply this to a drug i know more about, amphetamine. You could say Amphetamine is amphetamine, no? However, if i dosed you with l-amphetamine (if you like speed, which for these purposes we will say you do) you wouldnt be getting high, whereas if i dosed you with d-amp, you would be getting high...in the sense of, 2 chemicals can be the same chemical itself, but probably with regards to either leftover reagents in the final product (eg. ive seen lab results that find some MD-P-2-P in MDMA or MDA pills) or unwanted isomers (the l-evo isomer in the above amphetamine example). Speedy, this might be a bit hard to understand lulz. Set and setting do play a role, definitely both in MDMA and LSD more than it would in nonpsychedelic drugs (not that MDMA is really a psychedelic, but its not really a classical stim IMO either)
 
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